Author Topic: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection  (Read 898 times)

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Offline S11033

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VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« on: September 22, 2018, 05:41:49 PM »
Hey guys,

I recently traded for a VZ2008 and am looking to make my rifle compliant in my state. In order to do that, I will need to pin and weld a muzzle device to it. (I think I can just weld over the muzzle device detent, but I'll have to check with my FFL on that one.)

The rifle currently has a CZ USA muzzle brake on it. I've heard it's loud but effective. Does anybody have any experience as to how it does in terms of flash? Ideally I'd like to use something that mitigates flash but is not marketed as a flash hider. There are tons of options for 1/2x28 and 5/8x20, but I don't know of any for 14x1 RH, which I think is what my VZ2008 would have.

If there's no such device, I guess I'd rather have something more military-esque, like a bare nut or a slant brake. How do those do in terms of muzzle flash? I have limited experience with the 7.62x39 cartridge in general.

Any pointers would be appreciated!

Thanks,

S11

Offline S11033

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2018, 06:01:55 PM »
If I can add this to my own post, here's a device that I think might work well based on how it's marketed, but like I said I have very little experience both with this rifle and the cartridge that it's chambered for. I found it from one of the stickies on this forum.

https://www.bonesteelarms.com/VZ-58-Night-Brake-CNC-24282.htm

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2018, 11:24:09 PM »
Most Russian commercial ammo does not have flash retardant in it.  Milspec ammo does.  Golden tiger does have flash retardant. 

Vortex/phantom flash hider is the best option I've seen for VZ58.  CNC Warrior has some other flash hider option. 

For muzzle brake, best flash suppression I've seen is the special forces brake, which is a 2 piece device (somewhat similar in performance to the precision afab thought that one does slightly better flash suppression IMO).

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2018, 02:03:51 AM »
Hey guys,

I recently traded for a VZ2008 and am looking to make my rifle compliant in my state. In order to do that, I will need to pin and weld a muzzle device to it. (I think I can just weld over the muzzle device detent, but I'll have to check with my FFL on that one.)

The rifle currently has a CZ USA muzzle brake on it. I've heard it's loud but effective. Does anybody have any experience as to how it does in terms of flash? Ideally I'd like to use something that mitigates flash but is not marketed as a flash hider. There are tons of options for 1/2x28 and 5/8x20, but I don't know of any for 14x1 RH, which I think is what my VZ2008 would have.

If there's no such device, I guess I'd rather have something more military-esque, like a bare nut or a slant brake. How do those do in terms of muzzle flash? I have limited experience with the 7.62x39 cartridge in general.

Any pointers would be appreciated!

Thanks,

S11

What state are you in?

Are you needing a permanent barrel extension to get the barrel out to 16" to make it a legal rifle, or, for some reason, does your state require that muzzle devices be permanently attached?

As you stated. there aren't nearly as many 14x1RH muzzle devices available as there are for 14x1LH and the rest of the AK family or the others for ARs that you mentioned. Czechpoint apparently is the only one selling the Phantom flash hider in 14x1RH, which looks pretty good, though I haven't used it.

Otherwise, CNC Warrior sells some muzzle devices and extensions in 14x1RH, but a lot of them either aren't all that effective, too heavy or both. They also sell adaptors from 14x1RH to 14x1LH and other thread pitches.

http://www.cncwarrior.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1885

As far as effectiveness as a muzzle brake or a flash hider and be light weight and be 922r compliant, your best bet is a Manticore Arms Night Brake or Eclipse flash hider, but neither are made in 14x1RH, so you'd have to get adaptor.

https://manticorearms.com/shop-by-rifle/ak-47-and-ak-74-rifle-products?part_type=24
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 02:15:43 AM by MeatAxe »

Offline S11033

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 07:44:15 PM »
Hey guys,

I recently traded for a VZ2008 and am looking to make my rifle compliant in my state. In order to do that, I will need to pin and weld a muzzle device to it. (I think I can just weld over the muzzle device detent, but I'll have to check with my FFL on that one.)

The rifle currently has a CZ USA muzzle brake on it. I've heard it's loud but effective. Does anybody have any experience as to how it does in terms of flash? Ideally I'd like to use something that mitigates flash but is not marketed as a flash hider. There are tons of options for 1/2x28 and 5/8x20, but I don't know of any for 14x1 RH, which I think is what my VZ2008 would have.

If there's no such device, I guess I'd rather have something more military-esque, like a bare nut or a slant brake. How do those do in terms of muzzle flash? I have limited experience with the 7.62x39 cartridge in general.

Any pointers would be appreciated!

Thanks,

S11

What state are you in?

Are you needing a permanent barrel extension to get the barrel out to 16" to make it a legal rifle, or, for some reason, does your state require that muzzle devices be permanently attached?

As you stated. there aren't nearly as many 14x1RH muzzle devices available as there are for 14x1LH and the rest of the AK family or the others for ARs that you mentioned. Czechpoint apparently is the only one selling the Phantom flash hider in 14x1RH, which looks pretty good, though I haven't used it.

Otherwise, CNC Warrior sells some muzzle devices and extensions in 14x1RH, but a lot of them either aren't all that effective, too heavy or both. They also sell adaptors from 14x1RH to 14x1LH and other thread pitches.

http://www.cncwarrior.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1885

As far as effectiveness as a muzzle brake or a flash hider and be light weight and be 922r compliant, your best bet is a Manticore Arms Night Brake or Eclipse flash hider, but neither are made in 14x1RH, so you'd have to get adaptor.

https://manticorearms.com/shop-by-rifle/ak-47-and-ak-74-rifle-products?part_type=24

Unfortunately I live in up-my-assachsetts (aka MA), where freedom was born and promptly died. I got turned onto the VZ58 because our attorney general unilaterally, and without consulting the legislature, banned the majority of common semi-auto rifles by name literally claiming that they are "copy cats" of banned assault rifles because more than one "critical component" is interchangeable (that includes trigger groups, magazines, etc). The VZ has thus far been spared since it isn't on her radar and is completely proprietary. God help us...

Anywho, my barrel is 16", but I'm not allowed to have muzzle threads or anything marketed as a flash hider on a rifle that has a pistol grip. Unfortunately the flash hiders you linked won't work for me. I need to pin and weld something that's marketed as a brake or a comp. I currently have the Czech standard military-style brake and was thinking about just throwing that thing on, but it looks like there might be some better options.

Thank you,

S11

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 09:25:28 PM »
Hey guys,

I recently traded for a VZ2008 and am looking to make my rifle compliant in my state. In order to do that, I will need to pin and weld a muzzle device to it. (I think I can just weld over the muzzle device detent, but I'll have to check with my FFL on that one.)

The rifle currently has a CZ USA muzzle brake on it. I've heard it's loud but effective. Does anybody have any experience as to how it does in terms of flash? Ideally I'd like to use something that mitigates flash but is not marketed as a flash hider. There are tons of options for 1/2x28 and 5/8x20, but I don't know of any for 14x1 RH, which I think is what my VZ2008 would have.

If there's no such device, I guess I'd rather have something more military-esque, like a bare nut or a slant brake. How do those do in terms of muzzle flash? I have limited experience with the 7.62x39 cartridge in general.

Any pointers would be appreciated!

Thanks,

S11

What state are you in?

Are you needing a permanent barrel extension to get the barrel out to 16" to make it a legal rifle, or, for some reason, does your state require that muzzle devices be permanently attached?

As you stated. there aren't nearly as many 14x1RH muzzle devices available as there are for 14x1LH and the rest of the AK family or the others for ARs that you mentioned. Czechpoint apparently is the only one selling the Phantom flash hider in 14x1RH, which looks pretty good, though I haven't used it.

Otherwise, CNC Warrior sells some muzzle devices and extensions in 14x1RH, but a lot of them either aren't all that effective, too heavy or both. They also sell adaptors from 14x1RH to 14x1LH and other thread pitches.

http://www.cncwarrior.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1885

As far as effectiveness as a muzzle brake or a flash hider and be light weight and be 922r compliant, your best bet is a Manticore Arms Night Brake or Eclipse flash hider, but neither are made in 14x1RH, so you'd have to get adaptor.

https://manticorearms.com/shop-by-rifle/ak-47-and-ak-74-rifle-products?part_type=24

Unfortunately I live in up-my-assachsetts (aka MA), where freedom was born and promptly died. I got turned onto the VZ58 because our attorney general unilaterally, and without consulting the legislature, banned the majority of common semi-auto rifles by name literally claiming that they are "copy cats" of banned assault rifles because more than one "critical component" is interchangeable (that includes trigger groups, magazines, etc). The VZ has thus far been spared since it isn't on her radar and is completely proprietary. God help us...

Anywho, my barrel is 16", but I'm not allowed to have muzzle threads or anything marketed as a flash hider on a rifle that has a pistol grip. Unfortunately the flash hiders you linked won't work for me. I need to pin and weld something that's marketed as a brake or a comp. I currently have the Czech standard military-style brake and was thinking about just throwing that thing on, but it looks like there might be some better options.

Thank you,

S11

Will the Mass-a-two-bleeps authorities accept a blind pin on a threaded muzzle brake, or silver soldered instead of welded? The ATF accepts those solutions on barrel extensions which is not quite as extreme as welding and can be reversed / removed if desired.

Now the Manticore Night Brake is marketed as a muzzle brake, and is very effective, especially considering its small size and light weight (and is made in the US, so is 922r compliant). You would have to use an adapter though, to get it on to a 14x1RH muzzle.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 09:33:17 PM by MeatAxe »

Offline S11033

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2018, 11:47:51 PM »

Will the Mass-a-two-bleeps authorities accept a blind pin on a threaded muzzle brake, or silver soldered instead of welded? The ATF accepts those solutions on barrel extensions which is not quite as extreme as welding and can be reversed / removed if desired.

Now the Manticore Night Brake is marketed as a muzzle brake, and is very effective, especially considering its small size and light weight (and is made in the US, so is 922r compliant). You would have to use an adapter though, to get it on to a 14x1RH muzzle.

The best part is that they don't publish what is accepted and what isn't. We do our best to abide by the law, but it's bleeped near impossible when the law is intentionally written as vaguely as possible. As far as I know (and I've studied the matter quite a bit) nobody has ever been put away just for non-compliance with the MA assault weapons ban. It's just a charge that either sticks or doesn't in a plea bargain. But that's no reason not to play it safe...

Most people here will blind pin a muzzle device on and put a bead of weld over the pin. When I say "weld" I generally am referring to the generally-accepted "pin and weld" method. I think it would be enough to install a brake and then weld the muzzle device retention pin to the front sight base in its extended position. It would be reversible if the device had to be changed in the future, but it would be permanent enough to stand up to a wrench with no problem. If only they bothered to set a standard we'd know exactly how to go about it...

Maybe the solution is to cut the barrel back a couple inches, move the front sight base back and rethread the muzzle to 5/8x28 or 14x1 RH. Then pin and weld the Night Brake for a total length of 16". That would be a cool project, and along the lines of a Mini 14 I built recently.

Offline Santo

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 11:27:25 PM »
I’ve been looking for the two part special forces brake. No leads on any available for sale.


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Offline RSR

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 01:36:38 AM »
I’ve been looking for the two part special forces brake. No leads on any available for sale.

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Offline BigTinz

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 05:46:44 PM »
I've had a VZ 2008 and a proper 58, and I put a CNC warrior "Knurled Compensator" on both. It's a great device.

Offline Thin Man

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 06:18:13 PM »
I have 2 VZ-2008s and am running the CNC Warrior Czech-type "Knurled" comp on one. It seems to do the job and looks good, and I might add original, on the rifle I left in beaver barf  furniture.
The other rifle is my "go-to" and in FAB Defense furniture. On that gun I'm using the CNC Warrior 7.62 Cross Brake http://www.cncwarrior.com/7-62-Cross-Brake-p/25250.htm.
While I like the performance of both options, the winner is the Cross Brake by a fair margin. It seems to tame the gun's admittedly light recoil somewhat better than the Czech Brake. Subjective results, but what else is there?!  ;)

Offline S11033

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2018, 09:17:38 PM »
Thanks for all the replies! I ended up getting the Czech-style knurled comp pinned and welded on.

Steve

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 07:38:59 PM »
Thanks for all the replies! I ended up getting the Czech-style knurled comp pinned and welded on.

Steve


People need to lobby Manticore Arms and get them to make their Night Brake and Eclipse flash hider in 14x1mm RH. Both are very effective, but they're cumbersome and heavier to use with an adapter and jam nut.

Not sure why Manticore refuses to thread anything in 14x1 RH, considering all the multitudes of SKSs in circulation that use the same muzzle threads as the Vz58.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2018, 04:06:51 AM »
I've not been impressed w/ Manticore's offering in the online comparison videos folks have done.... The night brakes are brakes, "night" is just for marketing...  And the eclipse, while effective is as heavy as flash mitigating muzzle comps that have minimal moe flash but also provide substantially increased control...

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: VZ58 Muzzle Device Selection
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2018, 04:42:00 PM »
I've not been impressed w/ Manticore's offering in the online comparison videos folks have done.... The night brakes are brakes, "night" is just for marketing...  And the eclipse, while effective is as heavy as flash mitigating muzzle comps that have minimal moe flash but also provide substantially increased control...

Which muzzle devices are you using for 7.62x39?

Unfortunately, the limited selection of 922r muzzle brakes I've tried with 14x1RH threads (e.g. CNC Warrior) tended to be heavy and not that effective as muzzle brakes, especially compared to the Night Brake which was a lot lighter. I use these on AKs as well as the Vz58 (with a 14x1LH  adaptor).

Czechpoint sells a Phantom flash hider threaded for 14x1RH for $35, which seems pretty light weight, but I've never used one before.