The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: Scarlett Pistol on January 02, 2019, 07:02:32 PM
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Explanation:
When I upgraded to a Dillon 650 I started getting flecks of brass on all my reloads. They were coming from the seating/crimp die. I ordered a Lee FCD so I could seat and crimp in separate stations. This didn't really help much. Upon the suggestion from a wise sage reloader I looked at the contact surface of the Lee FCD and it had really rough machine marks. This was a contributor to the problem so I set about polishing them down. As polishing progressed it was evident that there were some deeper marks/gouges that would require more material removal than I was comfortable with.
This has happened with plated, coated, and jacketed rounds. Across all types of brands of cases.
So I got it finished up (excluding that deeper gouges) and the brass material getting shaved off decreased but did not go away. Not only is it irritating but I worry it is reducing the life of my brass by shaving off the edges like this. I am finally done with this die and ready to try another. After this bad experience I would like a high quality crimp die. One that isn't a total wreck from the factory that is not salvage even with polishing work.
Request:
What are the best and smoothest 9mm taper crimp dies ya'll have tried? It seems like Dillon, Redding, and RCBS are up there in quality. What have everyone's experiences been and what would you recommend?
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I use the crimp die the came with my Dillon 1050, but I seat and crimp in different stages. Have loaded over 100,000 rounds with the same dies.
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I use the crimp die the came with my Dillon 1050, but I seat and crimp in different stages. Have loaded over 100,000 rounds with the same dies.
A big +1 to the longevity to the Dillon crimp die then... haha. Thank you!
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I ordered a Lee FCD ...
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.expresswriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/03075150/grumpy-cat-copywriting-900x423.jpg)
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I ordered a Lee FCD ...
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.expresswriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/03075150/grumpy-cat-copywriting-900x423.jpg)
I know... I know... I made a mistake by making a purchase without final consultation of the advisory board on here.
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Using the Dillon now and I'm comfortable with it. It gives very good results. Adjust it up/down to dial in the desired TC diameter.
I have used the Lee Taper Crimp Die, which contacts solely on the very end of the case. In fact it leaves just a kiss ring on the case mouth about 0.005" wide. You can see it very clearly in this photo...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HjNlFDjwq_GJys53nCQlGXUDxxMFSw48JlHmPUBPCOl9Ms_X18Zlckzo-4N2qeeaq4vFx3PVxgfR_ntGP0VXh1hhdhkYVyV-lsUFdw7KhdjVyHjqCJfuTjj9FTR4QVLbKSev9KSOfkCxP-tFDaU_iisVWCN65Y_yIah0eN8CE0bMcIokETD7baIRruYFU4bYHpQNiojgoo5vni4OtyvFcmxQ3vUeSLZ0vyE1v5aTThPGh9DHxsQtd9lt8G38QNP-TTFxctRPXLOXZeHv8FGj1j1T1PEChCNGC_oMg1pFbn1_1CX9K7MeyW_z0ZamFeS4xn4Rt9hZLFDQl_TO6W7vDWlvjYLtM37aVdVuwFpPMyM7J7ZjO5kE6DL3kvAP0eri2O8SXi7Ct1_IAPPW88NtBHd1CBvnNu83ZB0gZ-UkUfS83ytES0Igq_XPK82uSWgRsw8789tKYV3b2-OllfrTSUdnoD5oOQD7SelQuciQ7WGQYRc9y1AGvM8OfdT9VytUfWgB0d-ZTVK3MepNz-E_OxYjVi47j_LstAD3Nva9Svx9YX_63dxXLxkjiKzosqUwfXy4oQ8Xjhcn0xnCdcrWIZFBsiPszQ8u1bP8LykaN77LiBmjWngowFofw4q5p-zP_fZ0BGxDjOQYVwDfXar6tv5r=w700-h327-no)
Previously I used a Redding in 40 cal and it was really smooth operating. Like the others it was a solid, one-piece die, but the Redding slid down over the case wall, ironing out much of the case like the FCD. Being solid, its only adjustment was up/down. But instead of dialing in the amount of crimp, the adjustment was only dialing in how much of the case wall you wanted smoothed over. So the crimp diameter seemed to be fixed within the die.
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Is there a reason to move on from the Lee taper crimp die? It's been working well for me since I saw it recommended here.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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Is there a reason to move on from the Lee taper crimp die? It's been working well for me since I saw it recommended here.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
The primary reason for me is that the one I got had terrible machining marks. Even after polishing there are still some deep marks that would require too much material removal. My die is shaving brass off the edge of my cases - making a mess and causing unnecessary wear on my brass. If you've got one that is working well I don't think you would need to move on to another.
Unless you're noticing any issues from how it functions based on what Wobbly is pointing out.
I have used the Lee Taper Crimp Die, which contacts solely on the very end of the case. In fact it leaves just a kiss ring on the case mouth about 0.005" wide. You can see it very clearly in this photo...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HjNlFDjwq_GJys53nCQlGXUDxxMFSw48JlHmPUBPCOl9Ms_X18Zlckzo-4N2qeeaq4vFx3PVxgfR_ntGP0VXh1hhdhkYVyV-lsUFdw7KhdjVyHjqCJfuTjj9FTR4QVLbKSev9KSOfkCxP-tFDaU_iisVWCN65Y_yIah0eN8CE0bMcIokETD7baIRruYFU4bYHpQNiojgoo5vni4OtyvFcmxQ3vUeSLZ0vyE1v5aTThPGh9DHxsQtd9lt8G38QNP-TTFxctRPXLOXZeHv8FGj1j1T1PEChCNGC_oMg1pFbn1_1CX9K7MeyW_z0ZamFeS4xn4Rt9hZLFDQl_TO6W7vDWlvjYLtM37aVdVuwFpPMyM7J7ZjO5kE6DL3kvAP0eri2O8SXi7Ct1_IAPPW88NtBHd1CBvnNu83ZB0gZ-UkUfS83ytES0Igq_XPK82uSWgRsw8789tKYV3b2-OllfrTSUdnoD5oOQD7SelQuciQ7WGQYRc9y1AGvM8OfdT9VytUfWgB0d-ZTVK3MepNz-E_OxYjVi47j_LstAD3Nva9Svx9YX_63dxXLxkjiKzosqUwfXy4oQ8Xjhcn0xnCdcrWIZFBsiPszQ8u1bP8LykaN77LiBmjWngowFofw4q5p-zP_fZ0BGxDjOQYVwDfXar6tv5r=w700-h327-no)
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Is there a reason to move on from the Lee taper crimp die? It's been working well for me since I saw it recommended here.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
The primary reason for me is that the one I got had terrible machining marks. Even after polishing there are still some deep marks that would require too much material removal. My die is shaving brass off the edge of my cases - making a mess and causing unnecessary wear on my brass. If you've got one that is working well I don't think you would need to move on to another.
Unless you're noticing any issues from how it functions based on what Wobbly is pointing out.
I have used the Lee Taper Crimp Die, which contacts solely on the very end of the case. In fact it leaves just a kiss ring on the case mouth about 0.005" wide. You can see it very clearly in this photo...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HjNlFDjwq_GJys53nCQlGXUDxxMFSw48JlHmPUBPCOl9Ms_X18Zlckzo-4N2qeeaq4vFx3PVxgfR_ntGP0VXh1hhdhkYVyV-lsUFdw7KhdjVyHjqCJfuTjj9FTR4QVLbKSev9KSOfkCxP-tFDaU_iisVWCN65Y_yIah0eN8CE0bMcIokETD7baIRruYFU4bYHpQNiojgoo5vni4OtyvFcmxQ3vUeSLZ0vyE1v5aTThPGh9DHxsQtd9lt8G38QNP-TTFxctRPXLOXZeHv8FGj1j1T1PEChCNGC_oMg1pFbn1_1CX9K7MeyW_z0ZamFeS4xn4Rt9hZLFDQl_TO6W7vDWlvjYLtM37aVdVuwFpPMyM7J7ZjO5kE6DL3kvAP0eri2O8SXi7Ct1_IAPPW88NtBHd1CBvnNu83ZB0gZ-UkUfS83ytES0Igq_XPK82uSWgRsw8789tKYV3b2-OllfrTSUdnoD5oOQD7SelQuciQ7WGQYRc9y1AGvM8OfdT9VytUfWgB0d-ZTVK3MepNz-E_OxYjVi47j_LstAD3Nva9Svx9YX_63dxXLxkjiKzosqUwfXy4oQ8Xjhcn0xnCdcrWIZFBsiPszQ8u1bP8LykaN77LiBmjWngowFofw4q5p-zP_fZ0BGxDjOQYVwDfXar6tv5r=w700-h327-no)
I have the taper crimp die, not the FCD. I was just wondering why Mr. Wobbly went to the Dillon die.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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Is there a reason to move on from the Lee taper crimp die? It's been working well for me since I saw it recommended here.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
The primary reason for me is that the one I got had terrible machining marks. Even after polishing there are still some deep marks that would require too much material removal. My die is shaving brass off the edge of my cases - making a mess and causing unnecessary wear on my brass. If you've got one that is working well I don't think you would need to move on to another.
Unless you're noticing any issues from how it functions based on what Wobbly is pointing out.
I have used the Lee Taper Crimp Die, which contacts solely on the very end of the case. In fact it leaves just a kiss ring on the case mouth about 0.005" wide. You can see it very clearly in this photo...
I have the taper crimp die, not the FCD. I was just wondering why Mr. Wobbly went to the Dillon die.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
My bad Earl, in my haste I wasn't thorough in reading what you said...
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Is there a reason to move on from the Lee taper crimp die? It's been working well for me since I saw it recommended here.
I have the [Lee] Taper Crimp Die, not the FCD. I was just wondering why Mr. Wobbly went to the Dillon die.
I moved on for the simple reason that after retirement I wanted to finish out the collection of Dillon dies. In the Dillon press, the Dillon Sizing/Decapping die does extremely well, and better than many others. That was really the 'driving' point of the purchase, but the Dillon TC die tagged along and that die simply started getting used.
I still own several Lee TC dies, and I'm still a fan. If the Dillon TC dies fail, the the Lee will go right back into service. I'm not a total Lee fan boy, but I do recognize that Lee dies offer extremely good value.
So maybe that helps explain.
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Is there a reason to move on from the Lee taper crimp die? It's been working well for me since I saw it recommended here.
I have the [Lee] Taper Crimp Die, not the FCD. I was just wondering why Mr. Wobbly went to the Dillon die.
I moved on for the simple reason that after retirement I wanted to finish out the collection of Dillon dies. In the Dillon press, the Dillon Sizing/Decapping die does extremely well, and better than many others. That was really the 'driving' point of the purchase, but the Dillon TC die tagged along and that die simply started getting used.
I still own several Lee TC dies, and I'm still a fan. If the Dillon TC dies fail, the the Lee will go right back into service. I'm not a total Lee fan boy, but I do recognize that Lee dies offer extremely good value.
So maybe that helps explain.
Thank you sir.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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The sign at the "Returns" line at the Redding Store: "Zero Customers Served"
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I just got my RCBS taper crimp die for the .300 BO.
When I started loading lead/plated bullets I found out the Redding seating die was just a bullet seating die, no ability to get rid of that slight case mouth bell I'd put on them for the soft flat based bullets.
I was bored, so I started reading the instructions. I ran across a couple/three things that made me curious.
One was the instructions say the RCBS taper crimp die is beneficial for crimping if the cases are not of uniform length. Then, a sentence or so down the instructions recommend you have cases of uniform length for more consistency in crimping....
The instructions also mentioned the taper crimp die is really good for bullets with a canelure so you can crimp the case mouth into the canelure.
If I get a chance in the next few days I might try to load some .300 BO and see how well, or not, it works. All mine are trimmed and I have no intentions of using bullets with canelures, I just need to get rid of the bell at the case mouth.
If it works well enough I might order one for the .357 SIG (since I had an issue awhile back while loading up the left over brass - varying case length resulting in some bulging of the shoulder when the round went through the crimping die.
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Just curious as to what causes the circular marks around the mid section of this case. When I pick up range brass for my 9mm loads I see that "chattermark" and throw the case in recycle bin, not knowing what causes it.
You can see it very clearly in this photo...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HjNlFDjwq_GJys53nCQlGXUDxxMFSw48JlHmPUBPCOl9Ms_X18Zlckzo-4N2qeeaq4vFx3PVxgfR_ntGP0VXh1hhdhkYVyV-lsUFdw7KhdjVyHjqCJfuTjj9FTR4QVLbKSev9KSOfkCxP-tFDaU_iisVWCN65Y_yIah0eN8CE0bMcIokETD7baIRruYFU4bYHpQNiojgoo5vni4OtyvFcmxQ3vUeSLZ0vyE1v5aTThPGh9DHxsQtd9lt8G38QNP-TTFxctRPXLOXZeHv8FGj1j1T1PEChCNGC_oMg1pFbn1_1CX9K7MeyW_z0ZamFeS4xn4Rt9hZLFDQl_TO6W7vDWlvjYLtM37aVdVuwFpPMyM7J7ZjO5kE6DL3kvAP0eri2O8SXi7Ct1_IAPPW88NtBHd1CBvnNu83ZB0gZ-UkUfS83ytES0Igq_XPK82uSWgRsw8789tKYV3b2-OllfrTSUdnoD5oOQD7SelQuciQ7WGQYRc9y1AGvM8OfdT9VytUfWgB0d-ZTVK3MepNz-E_OxYjVi47j_LstAD3Nva9Svx9YX_63dxXLxkjiKzosqUwfXy4oQ8Xjhcn0xnCdcrWIZFBsiPszQ8u1bP8LykaN77LiBmjWngowFofw4q5p-zP_fZ0BGxDjOQYVwDfXar6tv5r=w700-h327-no)
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Just curious as to what causes the circular marks around the mid section of this case. When I pick up range brass for my 9mm loads I see that "chattermark" and throw the case in recycle bin, not knowing what causes it.
I believe its a type of crimp some brands use to keep the bullet from being able to be pushed back into the case,, I know Aguila uses it on their ammo,,, like you i wouldnt load cases picked up at the range because of that, in fact i still dont bother with it now that i know what it is ;)
[Mods added missing reference]
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Is there a reason to move on from the Lee taper crimp die?
The primary reason for me is that the one I got had terrible machining marks.
Based on my experience, the Lee TCD touches the cartridge case using only a small fraction of it's internal surface. Therefore the remainder of the die can be "rough cut" for manufacturing speed and economy. Since those surfaces are non-operational, they have no effect on the finished cartridge.
So there may well be rough surfaces on your die, but look at the finished cartridge. Are those marks showing up on your finished product ??
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Just curious as to what causes the circular marks around the mid section of this case. When I pick up range brass for my 9mm loads I see that "chattermark" and throw the case in recycle bin, not knowing what causes it.
I believe its a type of crimp some brands use to keep the bullet from being able to be pushed back into the case,, I know Aguila uses it on their ammo,,, like you i wouldnt load cases picked up at the range because of that, in fact i still dont bother with it now that i know what it is ;)
It is indeed an anti-setback feature (cannelure ?) added to the case on high-end SD and LEO ammo. Bullet setback can be a bad thing on auto pistols when the same round is chambered over and over, and so your better ammo tries to counter this.
For reloaders it is absolutely of no consequence in my experience. Look at the photo I supplied (which is the focus of this conversation). That round had already been reloaded 3 or 4 times. The dimpling in the photo, which used to be fairly deep, is almost non-existent. The reason is that the case mouth Expander goes in there and irons out the inside of the case mouth.
You're depending on the Sizing die to move the case mouth 0.005-0.007", but thinking the Expander can't move the same piece 0.002" is an underestimate.
;)
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The sign at the "Returns" line at the Redding Store: "Zero Customers Served"
This is funny because my son has been going on and on and on about his new Redding taper crimp die. He loves the thing. Of course, he won't bring it when he comes to visit, but he will talk about it. So last Sunday I decided (for the good of the group ::) ) to sacrifice $40 and buy one for myself.
If everyone reading this could simply send me $1, then I'll start testing on Thursday evening.
;)
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Just curious as to what causes the circular marks around the mid section of this case. When I pick up range brass for my 9mm loads I see that "chattermark" and throw the case in recycle bin, not knowing what causes it.
You can see it very clearly in this photo...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HjNlFDjwq_GJys53nCQlGXUDxxMFSw48JlHmPUBPCOl9Ms_X18Zlckzo-4N2qeeaq4vFx3PVxgfR_ntGP0VXh1hhdhkYVyV-lsUFdw7KhdjVyHjqCJfuTjj9FTR4QVLbKSev9KSOfkCxP-tFDaU_iisVWCN65Y_yIah0eN8CE0bMcIokETD7baIRruYFU4bYHpQNiojgoo5vni4OtyvFcmxQ3vUeSLZ0vyE1v5aTThPGh9DHxsQtd9lt8G38QNP-TTFxctRPXLOXZeHv8FGj1j1T1PEChCNGC_oMg1pFbn1_1CX9K7MeyW_z0ZamFeS4xn4Rt9hZLFDQl_TO6W7vDWlvjYLtM37aVdVuwFpPMyM7J7ZjO5kE6DL3kvAP0eri2O8SXi7Ct1_IAPPW88NtBHd1CBvnNu83ZB0gZ-UkUfS83ytES0Igq_XPK82uSWgRsw8789tKYV3b2-OllfrTSUdnoD5oOQD7SelQuciQ7WGQYRc9y1AGvM8OfdT9VytUfWgB0d-ZTVK3MepNz-E_OxYjVi47j_LstAD3Nva9Svx9YX_63dxXLxkjiKzosqUwfXy4oQ8Xjhcn0xnCdcrWIZFBsiPszQ8u1bP8LykaN77LiBmjWngowFofw4q5p-zP_fZ0BGxDjOQYVwDfXar6tv5r=w700-h327-no)
Those marks are from the manufacturer. Those cases you're throwing out are fine.
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Thanks for enlightening me on circular dimplez on case. I will certainly keep and reuse these in the future.
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Thanks for enlightening me on circular dimplez on case. I will certainly keep and reuse these in the future.
Thanks for recycling. We really don't like to call the Reloading Police on anyone. And it's no fun trying to put your home's front door back in the jam at 3AM.
O0
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The sign at the "Returns" line at the Redding Store: "Zero Customers Served"
Awesome!!!!
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I have a Redding die and a RCBS die.
The last couple days I have gone from HP's from Precision Delta to round nose bullets
Loading Bayou 124g round nose the RCBS produces absolutely beautiful bullets.
The Redding is a spoiler, but my other dies are RCBS which makes using the RCBS TC die the next logical step.
I get the Redding out when I am deliberately thinking about it or when the RCBS gets inconsistent OAL from the bullet type I am loading.
Just my experience and my opinion not meant as a testimonial or even a recommendation.
RCG
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This is funny because my son has been going on and on and on about his new Redding taper crimp die. He loves the thing. Of course, he won't bring it when he comes to visit, but he will talk about it. So last Sunday I decided (for the good of the group ::) ) to sacrifice $40 and buy one for myself.
If everyone reading this could simply send me $1, then I'll start testing on Thursday evening.
No die delivered as of Sat morning. :P
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This is funny because my son has been going on and on and on about his new Redding taper crimp die. He loves the thing. Of course, he won't bring it when he comes to visit, but he will talk about it. So last Sunday I decided (for the good of the group ::) ) to sacrifice $40 and buy one for myself.
If everyone reading this could simply send me $1, then I'll start testing on Thursday evening.
No die delivered as of Sat morning. :P
A noble sacrifice! Can?t wait to hear your thoughts!
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A noble sacrifice!
Still waiting on your $1 contribution to the "noble sacrifice".
O0
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A noble sacrifice!
Still waiting on your $1 contribution to the "noble sacrifice".
O0
Just post up your credit card number and social security number and I?ll transfer the funds.
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OK.... die arrived late Saturday. I'm working on discovering the secrets.
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So here's what I'm seeing....
? STRAIGHT WALL
The Redding taper crimp die for 40S&W and other straight walled cartridges seems to be precisely machined to the correct diameter, fitting over most of the length of the cartridge brass. In this way their TCD acts as a "bulge buster", by removing any case irregularities (at least in the area of the bullet). In this way it is much like the Lee FCD.
The Redding TCD (below) is a one-piece die, simple to construct as long as you can hold the tolerances. The user simply locks the die into place after the adjustment is made. As long as some lubricant is supplied and the die kept clean, everyone is happy.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/D9Y6Rvrd3EzmPuPKzkAwbklnIEO4khmwlD5Obz-xDJV6J7abO1JcNY7_DTHbIhFR2hfejZ0vHeEa1USAflpyB_iupwS90qztXxncwS1Q_m5KBXIYhV1SRQJt4fLpLFDL_Xdhjki59wmKcgui8cFWuF4aWRMEtCqwEaGH7gbBtlrAmUe9Nls9MzBSk38-np7R2QgIwDSgjY6xO8lardfzhYde7N_2EqIYonN0RYs4cuySLCg3SseJ_E2RSaCbgqpaDvohcsGbIO5rBAdTNNfWF2s_4KUe3XgKHwOXCIQhtJTIKw6MhqFoBc2VoBfyntqaZgq2R4CnFRHY5mFwC5brJZhCEMS6ll3LVqyI0JeCZNLTF7ioDD3CeGt9sXtCXwYEYVaNul4LPEopwq-uTJxCXz-q_u5RthdOugfNWHt1S1Wfhn4UYJ6amMl8_Vv8jka7hiafq-TbIbD_RGfURgX9IT6gYzSSJVN2S-QekYZfoaJDKLWGGlsFEnPqWIYaKn_Xpirx4xmRHjNm5uE26gcs5-VAJk--HCX2bt_5A9v58FbBdSW-sBEO14C2q5E6cXW4veuAuHSALtN3kNk0w-y5n2ftgDEBmR7u1JXZSZTZGjYF63I-CrIiWWNcdtmBb6-AbppJAAv_H8WVFV_F9fwvBJmA=w152-h300-no)
The Lee FCD does these same actions in 2 steps. First with a carbide ring to slide over the cartridge case to do the "bulge busting", and a second adjustable crimp setting within the die to adjust the crimp diameter. This is more complicated in construction, but less expensive to manufacture. And, being multi-part, the die can come out of adjustment during use.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6e1yj3ZDS2vRkjtamlfrjGLa9SDqoBZKPpeaafwAE4Ip1cQAWoFCWzmYI9jJ-Ra-Wv13wNGTyp3V2uO_FHFVi0lnKnD9OW5Yn3gIeefWjtiySUTocp5lfk-R_YIkbPUUE1RG6CHLqPLUkLV6dO-Gyf9XMbbK5UvZXJ3DVzvjWggbrBJuwfaLLmRfEuOjHPWx6u5ZmfPtVFbu1i01H0DsetW3089AFfbTWLBXunaTFs_tv6LelIBPQQBK2VC0bNNQQOxAGOR83NSfcZ37d0zwffPX_LYwWETDKfrnGDsJ3Vny4Y_0P2DEjllwx-k9fBEfz_qHpqtNpYwl-_ZlXVTO6tIhF5E0vBqdqcCh4pnoAVHhXrmPkNlU4YjoyKT-Egq0x8Y98fWpE8Gpu5_WKDJVs6ElHkNa98Xg99nINBBpSOp_o0ImFM7bl0JIL33WOcJbDWHMKCPlMLkHveneU8pY-wOiZ6KF5QLvCC1EFXPFB5h6uS1UqR0R4-JlJ_oIMGyWCaLPOu2J_q4XtzK7R6djZCgOcqOsjEQbrB1FuETpV3lsbJGAnwk4H2_2c9iW7vMaf4Qd1Cy0AJo-j_eIQZ6KvnIqi9LIWY0g89Ky4pXeM6z7flX1-FAPso5pLn0nnYdPXBBDhi3hAOh5eySMfLv4BhFT=w125-h300-no)
But everything is fine with either method as long as the case wall remains straight.
? TAPER WALL
Problems enter the picture when you get to 9x19mm Luger (and all subsequent 9mm siblings). The problem is that the Luger has a 0.6? taper (1.2? total) designed into the external wall of the cartridge case. This slight taper messes up everything. There is no way to slide a fixed diameter over the length of the case and have it act upon the entire length of the case. And it is very, very difficult to construct a carbide ring with a tapered ID to do part of this work. Even if you could, you'd need to be certain which way the ring got installed. Tapers simply introduce a lot of trouble.
I was hoping that Redding had somehow figured out how to overcome these issues. However, on close inspection, apparently Redding does it the same way Dillon and Hornady do it. They slide a die with a conical interior over the cartridge. The interior is very slightly tapered, something on the order of 5-7?. This leaves a long, graceful taper crimp, but one that does not contact the entire length of the cartridge. The effect is a long taper crimp affecting about 0.1" of the case, starting at the case mouth and working back toward the head. The Dillon seems to be slightly steeper angle, which makes contact with about half that length. There is no bullet contact as the "through hole" of the die is about 0.370".
The Lee taper crimp die does this same thing, only with a much steeper angle. Since the angle is steeper, much less of the cartridge case mouth is acted upon, meaning that much shorter length of the die interior has to be micro-finished (polished). Steeper angle also means that case length has a greater effect upon the finished taper crimp.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UKLzsi-FCmFxKhFKs6sKu-r-tGISVwcdAB3BnDxxN_qdfcO_appeNH56a3bXBEjaSf-Jx6YatJ2R7EN6sCaunk91kr6o-Oj-0X5dk95jylr0FimbhxmtGvczPkw8ncwIK7LfLHTj09hA0JParoozuLT3Bkhlxgagkk7xdvtfhWvZ5z2dnolJVE319BEZ0K3xiJ1H_YfQJAAt60g6Lq2Q5JeHgxMuMxR8exIs-8g2NWiHnaKo7pHi959VwgAEXbA9Hy-ajPVzfuY4kWZL68SKNHC7YWo5kE2kwH7Eg7aaCmfb1CR8cHvbfsOPOAwwvtyKX17VE4S4HatztQ8QZITeCACdn-edoghnqCL3D_gnIvwxnGUJsxDc4GyHgDeS4QW0QMhNYXgg1gDd4vGT5fLAXqK9rHQpJ-wMi8ayRJ0N1BQkdI3gQdy-A9_nJKikpB1HLGYwd2b1BzPuWKqv7RheD3JQ1entdEEGr-v0CvQ2YCMuRQTcQxgajs7Gys9L_LvKApDSds0Cv_dhZt4K-nfvebQ-J_8MaTBDZVG1n_V5fqsf4MqwC9BoarCPNdceizPm0AiO1N5SHMxU7XJirKhdAfFZJMbWm6sMjYxWnQF3pr7rjOj2niy9OQs1j2FeEb6KoWazWV1g_3_8dVZ4J5z1CxPq=w857-h873-no)
So as to the question: What's the smoothest taper crimp die ? I would have to say the Redding seems to be very, very good. It is constructed from very high quality materials using a very slight internal angle. This results in a very satisfying ("smooth") looking and feeling TC that is not as affected by case length. However, having more case contact area it will require some slight amount of lube to be present.
However, if you are currently using a Dillon or Hornady taper crimp die, I cannot say that you will see differences worth the added $40 cost of the Redding. It's better than the Lee TCD, but again, probably not worth the price difference. That is, unless you're looking for more consistent crimp results on mixed length brass.
;)
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Thank you very much Wobbly!!!
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To follow up.... several weeks on I'm using the Redding Taper Crimp Die in place of the Dillon TC die and liking the results. So much so that I will not be going back, even though the Dillon is probably its equal.
I'm using Dillon Case Lube Spray which helps lubricate the sizing and crimping processes. I simply feel that my whole cartridge case forming and shaping has taken a big step forward.
;)
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Wobbly.... I remember you mentioning that Redding Pro-series (#94172 ) seating die that at the time was on sale at Midway. It was a very good recommendation and I like it much better than my Dillon!!. (I do wish it had different style fine adjustment lock nut ala hex nut). That being said do you think the Redding taper crimp die is worth changing also?
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I'm going to be using it because it was $40 for a single die, and so now either the Dillon or the Redding has to sit on the shelf. This is what was previously said, and I'm sticking to it...
However, if you are currently using a Dillon or Hornady taper crimp die, I cannot say that you will see differences worth the added $40 cost of the Redding. It's better than the Lee TCD, but again, probably not worth the price difference. That is, unless you're looking for more consistent crimp results on mixed length brass.
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I use the Lee FCD because I prefer to seat and crimp separately. I've seen some fine brass dust in the finished shell catcher and much more so in my vibratory polisher. I suspect more of it comes from chambering rounds and polishing than from the crimper but in any case I have brass that's been loaded weekly for over 5 years with no degradation attributable to the fcd. If you got a bad one from Lee, why not take advantage of their warranty and ask for a replacement?
Also, I tend to get a tad aggressive with the expander, as I load plated bullets on a progressive moving rather quickly. A generous flare aids in keeping bullets in place during index and aligns them for the seater. The downside is that the mouth may drag on the carbide ring in the bottom of the fcd. This is probably the source of most of the dust. Backing off your expander a little might help.
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I have been using the Redding taper crimp die for about 1.5 years now. It is smooth! When running the case into it you don't feel as if you are hitting a steep inclined wall. Butter like smoothness. I have never felt that post seating, full length sizing was necessary, even using oversized cast bullets at .358-.359 in.