The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Tactics and Competition => Topic started by: dbarn on August 29, 2019, 12:49:01 PM
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For those who compete and use a DA/SA trigger, are you using between the tip and first joint of finger, or do you use the first joint of your trigger finger?
Of those who use the first joint, can you tell me the advantages?
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I would do not and would not use the first joint.
Why?
Because there is no advantage I can see.
RCG
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For those who compete and use a DA/SA trigger, are you using between the tip and first joint of finger, or do you use the first joint of your trigger finger?
Of those who use the first joint, can you tell me the advantages?
It depends on a few things. The trigger reach of the pistol, relative to the size of your hand, length of trigger travel, length of trigger finger, strength of trigger finger.
So how can you know what is right FOR YOU? Remember, the goal is being able to press the trigger to the rear without moving the pistol, ie., disturbing your sight alignment or sight picture.
Using the pad is only a starting point, each individual will typically have to add more or less based on results and what works best for them.
Using the first pad is only a general starting point
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For those who compete and use a DA/SA trigger, are you using between the tip and first joint of finger, or do you use the first joint of your trigger finger?
Of those who use the first joint, can you tell me the advantages?
So how can you know what is right FOR YOU? Remember, the goal is being able to press the trigger to the rear without moving the pistol, ie., disturbing your sight alignment or sight picture.
Exactly! My hands are medium and my fingers are long. With slim grips my trigger finger naturally aligns to the first joint. If I use the pad of the finger I tend to push my groups left. With the first joint my groups are more centered. Drawing the pistol and firing once at 10 yards in under 2 seconds also bears this out. I've always been taught to use between the first joint and tip regardless of hand size, and most likely with my long fingers, have been using the area near the first joint. If I commit to actually using the joint, I'm finding my hits are more consistent with dynamic shooting.
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For those who compete and use a DA/SA trigger, are you using between the tip and first joint of finger, or do you use the first joint of your trigger finger?
Of those who use the first joint, can you tell me the advantages?
It depends on a few things. The trigger reach of the pistol, relative to the size of your hand, length of trigger travel, length of trigger finger, strength of trigger finger.
So how can you know what is right FOR YOU? Remember, the goal is being able to press the trigger to the rear without moving the pistol, ie., disturbing your sight alignment or sight picture.
Using the pad is only a starting point, each individual will typically have to add more or less based on results and what works best for them.
Using the first pad is only a general starting point
Using the pad of your finger is the proper way to press your trigger
Finding a gun that fits your hand correctly is the starting point.
RCG
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For those who compete and use a DA/SA trigger, are you using between the tip and first joint of finger, or do you use the first joint of your trigger finger?
Of those who use the first joint, can you tell me the advantages?
It depends on a few things. The trigger reach of the pistol, relative to the size of your hand, length of trigger travel, length of trigger finger, strength of trigger finger.
So how can you know what is right FOR YOU? Remember, the goal is being able to press the trigger to the rear without moving the pistol, ie., disturbing your sight alignment or sight picture.
Using the pad is only a starting point, each individual will typically have to add more or less based on results and what works best for them.
Using the first pad is only a general starting point
Using the pad of your finger is the proper way to press your trigger
Finding a gun that fits your hand correctly is the starting point.
RCG
I was listening to a podcast with Eric Grauffel yesterday. He says put your finger where it's comfortable for you based on your anatomy. It was very interesting to hear his opinions. Many of them were contrary to commonly accepted practices.
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Well if it comes down to whose opinion you should probably take mine or Eric Graufel
I'd take his opinion before mine.
RCG
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For those who compete and use a DA/SA trigger, are you using between the tip and first joint of finger, or do you use the first joint of your trigger finger?
Of those who use the first joint, can you tell me the advantages?
It depends on a few things. The trigger reach of the pistol, relative to the size of your hand, length of trigger travel, length of trigger finger, strength of trigger finger.
So how can you know what is right FOR YOU? Remember, the goal is being able to press the trigger to the rear without moving the pistol, ie., disturbing your sight alignment or sight picture.
Using the pad is only a starting point, each individual will typically have to add more or less based on results and what works best for them.
Using the first pad is only a general starting point
Using the pad of your finger is the proper way to press your trigger
Finding a gun that fits your hand correctly is the starting point.
RCG
I was listening to a podcast with Eric Grauffel yesterday. He says put your finger where it's comfortable for you based on your anatomy. It was very interesting to hear his opinions. Many of them were contrary to commonly accepted practices.
I'd take any opinion like that before any "DO THIS". I didn't use the pad of the finger when I used a glock 17 and I had much better shots using the first joint in any kind of shooting
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It has its limitations, in this case, I do find the pistol correction chart helps me find my center....
(https://utahcarrylaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/RH-Pistol-Correction-Target.png)
Take some time, do some drills isolating that one component, figure out how trigger placement with your grip and gun effects how you shoot. You can then make an informed decision about your own placement.
Or you can find a shooter who matches your style on youtube (there are several) and watch what they do. Just remember, there is no right answer for everyone, and you can always take bits and pieces from multiple sources.
https://youtu.be/Vo6Ii19I4_8
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I moved up from a small to a medium backstrap on my P-07 to help better align the pad of my trigger finger with the trigger. It seemed to help my DA pull a fair amount. Before I settled on the medium backstrap, I practiced with all three backstraps at home, dry firing with a MantisX, until I found the one that felt the most natural and produced the best results.
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Or you can find a shooter who matches your style on youtube (there are several) and watch what they do. Just remember, there is no right answer for everyone, and you can always take bits and pieces from multiple sources.
https://youtu.be/Vo6Ii19I4_8
That's a really good video about using more of your trigger finger. Recently I completely disassembled my SP-01 tactical and found that I am literally wearing a groove on the left side of my trigger pushing it against the frame unknowingly, while continuing to use the pad of my finger. What a wake up call. No question for my hand size and grip the first joint allows the trigger to come strait back and my hits are more centered as a result. Find what works for you!
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shadow 2 owner.
i have long, skiny fingers.
after testing my sights, my vision, barrel, bushing, etc... i have found something interesting.
in all other pistols and rifles i shoot normal, but my shadow2 POI is almost always moved to left.
stock shadow 2 trigger feels "round" to me. like there is not enough contact surface between finger and trigger. trigger feels like cylinder.
i have changed trigger to stock 75 trigger. 75 trigger feels like flat, wide edges, so more trigger surface in contact with my finger.
over a month with stock 75 trigger i wasn't shooting left.
today i have changed trigger back to stock shadow2 and POI went left again. so, im quite sure what is the problem.
(https://abload.de/thumb/1911-finger-placement1ikso.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=1911-finger-placement1ikso.jpg)
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I've been following this thread from very beginning waiting for someone who would come with simple "math" explanation.
I've spoken with my Instructor recently about proper trigger placement. He has explained to me :
The thing is that every single pistol is different and there is no magic trigger which would work for each hand.
However there is one trick that can make your shots accurate on every gun - just know the math.
As we know finger is built from 3 phalanges: proximal, middle, distal. Proximal one doesn't participate in trigger pull, however its direction and arrangement is a key to accurate shot.
Proximal phalange MUST BE PARALLEL to the gun during the shot.
If you put too much finger into the trigger your first joint is closer to the frame than rest of your proximal phalange and you shoot left.
If you put too less of finger into the trigger and press the trigger your proximal phalange moves right and you shoot right.
This explanation couldn't be simpler. I've shot multiple pistols, paying attention to my proximal phalange... and the magic happened - perfect score !!!
However it's not so simple and easy to make it working under the stress.. but practice is something what helps here.
Good luck !
:)
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Based on my experience it has always helped me with aligning the gun to ideal shooting form of direct rearward articulation and pull of the trigger. I focus on “tuning” the gun to my hand with this in mind and adjust the grip panels/ backstraps accordingly to see how it affects my shooting under stress/time. If you feel like you are getting too much finger in the trigger then that is usually a key indicator that the gun does not fit your hand and you may want to opt for palm swell grips / larger backstraps
A good test is to draw from the holster and then check where your finger falls. Check this in DA and SA because these will both be naturally different. You can follow it up with dry firing
In my experience a natural alignment of the finger will reduce the need to train pushing or pulling shots caused by a pistol that doesn’t fit my hands. I personally go the opposite way - big palms and stubby finger like a gorilla. I opted for Lok Thin Bogies and it helped a ton.
YMMV
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It has its limitations, in this case, I do find the pistol correction chart helps me find my center....
(https://utahcarrylaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/RH-Pistol-Correction-Target.png)
Take some time, do some drills isolating that one component, figure out how trigger placement with your grip and gun effects how you shoot. You can then make an informed decision about your own placement.
Or you can find a shooter who matches your style on youtube (there are several) and watch what they do. Just remember, there is no right answer for everyone, and you can always take bits and pieces from multiple sources.
https://youtu.be/Vo6Ii19I4_8
thanks i was looking for this again recently... got to come up with a way to practice at home might be time for a lazer light system
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I was listening to a podcast with Eric Grauffel yesterday. He says put your finger where it's comfortable for you based on your anatomy. It was very interesting to hear his opinions. Many of them were contrary to commonly accepted practices.
I'd take any opinion like that before any "DO THIS". I didn't use the pad of the finger when I used a glock 17 and I had much better shots using the first joint in any kind of shooting
Amen! Reminds me of the one thing that irritated me about my concealed carry class back in 2015. They had us practice grip and stance with dummy 1911's. I have wrapped my left index finger over the trigger guard for 20+ years, ever since I got my first 9mm (probably did it with my 1911 when I was in the Army, but I can't recall as I only carried one for a year and then started lugging an M16). I notice 2 of the instructors staring at me, and then one made a beeline for me and told me that was an 'incorrect grip'. I mentioned that I had been using it successfully for 20+ years. His reply was (I paraphrase) 'well, you need to change it if you want to pass this class.'
Granted I have subsequently had to adjust for my pistol with a light on it, but I'll never forget that narrow "only one way to do it" mentality.
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thanks i was looking for this again recently... got to come up with a way to practice at home might be time for a lazer light system
Yes! I wound up getting some of the Taryag laser cartridges and using iTarget with ISSF Shot Timer. A great low budget training system!