The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: Swamp ash on November 15, 2019, 01:50:20 PM
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Hard to believe how quickly these come and go.
I just talked to my local folks for a transfer and you guessed it - they are closing shop.
In the last 4 years I have seen at least 5 new shops I have used appear and then vanish.
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The brick and mortar retail shop is a tough market...the Internet is killing them.
It's such a low margin industry...throw in all the headaches and pitfalls of licensing and dealing with the Feds......it's no wonder people throw in the towel.
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The brick and mortar retail shop is a tough market...the Internet is killing them.
It's such a low margin industry...throw in all the headaches and pitfalls of licensing and dealing with the Feds......it's no wonder people throw in the towel.
Well a little bit yes and a little bit no. Depends on the state and depends on the shop and how aggressively they market themselves. The same can be said for ANY business these days. I've seen some restaurants that I thought were fantastic and seemed busy fall by the wayside pretty quickly just the same as gun shops. They open and have some specials and great deals then go full bore with the stick it to em pricing. There are a couple gun shops I've seen not last due to that business model here in Ohio and there are couple who have marketed themselves aggressively and maintained better than competitive pricing and they are expanding and flourishing. I got an email a week ago from a local family owned sporting goods shop that has been around since the early 60's and they are closing. The father can no longer work and the son is greedy so not hard to see where it went south. Another outfit that started as a family business 34 years ago now has 6 locations because they maintain good stock,good and competitive pricing and generally good customer service.
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Of course they do, it's all part of their plan. The American public I'm sorry to say is so completely stupid. A Clowns In America official once said publicly that they'd know they had succeeded when everything the American public believes is a lie. Well guess what, I believe they have indeed succeeded. I believe Ben Franklin said that anyone who would trade any of their Liberty's for a false sense of security deserve neither security nor liberty. Well guess what, I believe there many undeserving among us deserve.
I always try to buy locally when my funds, and patience permit. Yes they're always a little more expensive and dont always have what I want but they can usually get it eventually.
If this bothers you, LGSs disappearing, do your best to find the one you like most and support them.
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Hmmmmm. Come to Illinois. Laws that go full steam next year almost guarantee the small shops go away. And that was by design.
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Of course they do, it's all part of their plan. The American public I'm sorry to say is so completely stupid. A Clowns In America official once said publicly that they'd know they had succeeded when everything the American public believes is a lie. Well guess what, I believe they have indeed succeeded. I believe Ben Franklin said that anyone who would trade any of their Liberty's for a false sense of security deserve neither security nor liberty. Well guess what, I believe there many undeserving among us deserve.
I always try to buy locally when my funds, and patience permit. Yes they're always a little more expensive and dont always have what I want but they can usually get it eventually.
If this bothers you, LGSs disappearing, do your best to find the one you like most and support them.
Right on!!!
My pet peeve....go to the store, hold it get the right one. go home go online buy it. have it sent to the guy who let you hold it first, then ask the guy who let you hold it to do the ATF paper and register it for 20 bucks.
One of my buddies used to own a bow shop. If you bought a bow from hi he would tune it and set it up free of charge. If you bought it elsewhere from competition and he didn't handle that brand he charged 50 bucks. Buy it on line.....100 bucks. Everyone whined about what an a hole he was. They now buy their bows online and drive for 60 miles to pay 75 bucks to get work done and he welds trailers together, has insurance and hunts with me instead of being on his store all season because he hated to hear all the whinning. he isn't doing what he thought he would love to do. But he gets to hunt all year and still tweaks my bows for me when they need TLC. He never charges me but I always pay him because I don't know how to do what he does and I value it a lot!!!
I hate LGS closing. The internet is not at fault the typer is.
RCG
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I’m out in the rocks and sticks of West Texas, local guns stores are 80 and 120 mile drives and oilfield prices. One of the stores has or did have a few CZs but 880 bucks for a SP 01 tactical was a bit much. Last year I was looking at getting P01 and found one online and now my local gun store Is 260 miles East in San Antonio. I wound up getting to hold a ton of CZs 👍🏻 and walked out with a P01 Omega I’d been wanting for several years.
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Local gun stores refuse to compete on pricing w/ the internet AND a lot of times you effectively have a version of The Simpson's "comic book guy" running them. Not a good look.
The most successful local gun stores I've seen do the following:
1) sell inventory online, including used trade guns on gunbroker
2) offer competitive ffl prices and make many times their margins on firearm sales via ffl transfers each day
3) carry a decent inventory of accessories, etc, for the most common guns coming in as ffl transfers
4) offer training and classes, as well as other services like basic gun cleaning and repair and scope installation
5) present gun buying customers with options and trust those customers to make the best choice for them -- and offer very limited opinion unless it's asked for.
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I quit going to my LGS because of the prices. And the owner despises CZ, which, of course, is always a huge no-no. Even when I was receiving CZs there he would disparage them, but would never meet at the range to try one. Also, the little Napoleon kept bragging about the indoor range he was going to oen, but when he mentioned he would keep all the brass on the floor I said sorry, will never shoot there, since I am a reloader. They charged $25 per transfer. Rifles that online would be $500 were $600-700 there.
My NEW LGS is a pawn shop full of weirdness and fun, including my $5 Forster trimmer, ($115 value with pilot and collet for $5), and they charge a whopping $10 for a transfer. Family owned and nice people who don't charge the arm and leg because they know how it is. Funny thing, not long after the P-10C hit the market they somehow had 4 on the shelf...and wouldn't tell me how...
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My NEW LGS is a pawn shop full of weirdness and fun, including my $5 Forster trimmer, ($115 value with pilot and collet for $5), and they charge a whopping $10 for a transfer. Family owned and nice people who don't charge the arm and leg because they know how it is. Funny thing, not long after the P-10C hit the market they somehow had 4 on the shelf...and wouldn't tell me how...
I love those kinda places too but they are definitely hazardous to my wallet. I deal with one locally on a regular basis and I never know what I'm going to walk outta there with: snowblowers, knives, vintage home stereo components (I love em) and speakers, etc. Not many pawn shops still accept that kind of stuff but, the one I deal with locally does and I have gone home many a-time with things I hadn't planned on buying. My 6.5" S&W Model 29-2 and 6" Colt King Cobra also came from there.
I'm lucky to have a small LGS for new gun purchases. It's owned by the treasurer of my club and he charges members only $20 max for regulated firearm transfers. The other LGS's in my area can go pound sand. Between their bad prices, bad attitudes and 2019 being a virtual buyers market for new guns, I won't waste my time trying to deal with them.
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My guy is content to do transfers and buy/sell/consign used guns. He tells me that the big online sellers sell guns for what he pays his distributor or very close to it. If I do the "hold here, buy online" thing, I do it at Cabelas or one of the other big box stores.
He gives me some great deals on used guns, and I very rarely haggle price with him. If I do haggle, it's only on consignment guns that he didn't price.
If I end up selling a gun I bought from him, I usually put it on consignment there so he can make a little then too- even if it goes on gunbroker. One time, I doubled my money on a Para 1911 LS Hunter he sold me, it was only fair to give him a cut. At this point, he's more than my local gun dealer. He's become a trusted friend and confidant. His health is declining, so I don't know how long he'll keep his store open. Every day he gets more frustrated with internet tire kickers and buddies trying to stack multiple guns/lowers on one 4473 . He used to do up to 6 lowers on one transfer for $20 until people started taking advantage. Now it's one s/n per form. Times change and not always for the better.
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There are now two large local cities that have made laws adding a $25 additional tax on firearm purchases plus 5¢ tax per round of ammo.
Local LGS are packing up and calling it quits or moving to a friendlier city due to these additional "tariffs". If they are already non-competitive price wise, this will simply drive them away.
These city councils are both running "un-wanted/evil" businesses out of town AND are reaping a tax dollar influx from those that elect to pay these higher taxes. A win-win in their eyes.
I don't shop local gun stores what so ever, they are of no value to me. I won't patronize them (or any company) just so they can keep the doors open for others, that is not my responsibility.
All my shooting is done outdoors and repairs done by a local smith doing firearm only work from his home based business.
YMMV
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I prefer to deal locally and I flatly refuse to buy online. I need too see and hold the gun BEFORE it's ordered and reasonably know that I like and want it or I just won't buy it and this also saves the aggravation of having defects sent and having to be sent back which is a hassle for the FFL as well.
My local indoor range is also a high volume dealer and he gets me prices on some things that absolutely no one can touch online.
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The LGS by my work is an overpriced joke. MSRP on all new firearms and near-new pricing on used. Accessories are the same - $40 for a pound of red dot and $50 for 1k of primers? That just insults me. I even overheard the owner one time tell a new gun owner that she shouldn't practice with the defense ammo because it would just scare her.
On the other hand, the G&P a block away is the complete opposite. They have lightened my wallet many times for firearms, tools and electronics. All without any attitude or misinformed opinions. They'll order anything I want for 5% over cost and do the FFL for free if I buy it there, while the LGS would still charge extra for it.
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The only gun shop anywhere near my house was open for about 9 months and recently closed their doors. In my neck of the woods, it seems like the only shops that survive have a range and/or offer a slew of classes.
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I went to the local shop to pick up two incoming transfers today. While I was standing there, I saw a LNIB P-01 (2019 dated) in the case. Had to run home for more ca$h. Picking up the transfers put me in the right place for a sale during the shop's major renovation, so that worked out well for everyone.
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I’m fortunate to have a really good LGS.
Their recent major problem? They’ve been broken into TWICE in the past 6 months. And they’re across the parking lot from WM, next door to a Dollar General, and 100 yards from a Home Depot. Good location? Apparently not.
Crazy.
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Been noticing this here to in the Denver, CO area. It can count at least 10 great LGS that have shuttered this year. There was even a big player in Loveland, CO who shutdown this year due to competition from Cabela's.
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The only gun shop anywhere near my house was open for about 9 months and recently closed their doors. In my neck of the woods, it seems like the only shops that survive have a range and/or offer a slew of classes.
Doing classes and having a private range we could use saved our shop. I would build rifles or sell handguns to people and for 20 bucks they got 4 hours at a range and we would work through everything with them. Let them shoot our own rifles and gear and they would come back monday wanting to upgrade stuff.
A lot of shops are very focused on one thing, were a black rifle store, were a huinting store, we only like this or that. And that kills them.
Or they are just Aholes to customers. I got that from a lot of our customers that came to us.
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I guess we're lucky out here, we have some decent shops. My favorite one in town tries to compete with prices at Academy, which is on the other side of town. He's high on transfers, until he gets to know you. He asks $45 for new guys, but regular customers pay $25. A town about 10 miles from here offers classes and keeps good inventory and has been growing.
I see a lot of activity here locally on Armslist. I'm not sure how much it impacts the local shops but only one shop puts ads on it and they aren't growing or getting much benefit from it.
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I see a lot of activity here locally on Armslist. I'm not sure how much it impacts the local shops but only one shop puts ads on it and they aren't growing or getting much benefit from it.
I offered to put my LGS inventory on Armslist. He didn’t seem very interested.
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Recently the only Gun Store in town is closing. This is very unfortunate since the next Gun Store with reloading supplies is 35 minutes away and their prices are much higher. It's a shame and I will miss the convenience of buying supplies on demand, but mostly I will miss it being a meeting place to waste an hour of so.
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I'm lucky that I have a great local shop. I don't pay anything for transfers either in or out. Most of my buys are right near dealer cost if I'm buying something he has in inventory. I do a little machining for him on the side and he takes care of me.
2 of my other LGSs went out of business in the past 6 months and that leaves me with no walk-in and buy reloading shops. I'm well stocked for the next couple years before I have to order online. Hopefully I find something before it comes to that.
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Doing classes and having a private range we could use saved our shop. I would build rifles or sell handguns to people and for 20 bucks they got 4 hours at a range and we would work through everything with them. Let them shoot our own rifles and gear and they would come back monday wanting to upgrade stuff.
What % of folks passed you up on that $20 4 hour training session? B/c quite frankly -- that's basically you all just offering to do it for free plus whatever the range charges you.
Also, I salute you for working to ensure your customers are responsible gun owners. Seemingly small gestures like this are critical to the protection and expansion/restoration of our 2A rights!
A lot of shops are very focused on one thing, were a black rifle store, were a huinting store, we only like this or that. And that kills them.
Or they are just Aholes to customers. I got that from a lot of our customers that came to us.
I can totally understand how the black rifle stores went under. Same for black rifle parts stores.
The biggest thing I've seen in the way of being Aholes is just the ego factor -- the owner or whoever works the counter in small stores tend to declare their opinion as fact and if you don't follow their recommendations or offer alternative opinions, things go south... That's why I offered the Comic Book Guy analogy earlier.
Personally, I think w/ walmart no longer selling pistol ammo, Dicks and other sporting goods stores getting out of firearms, palmetto state armory and other large online vendors having recently begun charging sales tax, that local gun stores will see a renaissance if they actually work to compete on pricing and have some sort of online inventory website where folks can reserve in stock guns for local pickup, and place special orders for guns online, etc. -- that is if local stores can keep pricing competitive at online prices plus shipping.
And perhaps, my biggest gripe with gunstores and gunshows is that you never know what they're going to have in stock, don't know the price of what they have in stock, etc, before you get there. So the amount of time/value of your time wasted to find whatever gun(s) you're looking for is likely to never be offset by any pre-owned inventory deals you grab in your firearm retailer shopping circuit.
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On the other hand, I was never accustomed to a specific LGS in the first place. Growing up, guns always came from the hardware store :). I always wanted that Python that sat in the case up front, for years.
I think Gallery of Guns does a great job of combining broader distributor inventory with LGS delivery. And heck, this puts me into contact with businesses I did not know existed, who in turn, sell me sight installation service, parts, additional gun purchases, etc.
And lets be certain, my Cajunized PCR came straight from Monroe, LA to a very nice FFL. Same with my Ruger Mk IV replacement (Ruger traded me for a squirrelly Mk III) - it could not be sent to me directly because it was not registered yet.
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We have a local gun store Ryker Arms that post it's inventory on line and up dates it every day. The last 2 pistols I bought from them were my CZ Rami BD and my CZ 97 BD they were both priced a $100 less than our local indoor range. You would think the $350 yearly membership fee I pay at the indoor range would get me a little bit of a discount.
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A big part of the problem is that many gun shop owners just have zero business sense. My LGS recently decided that they aren't going to do any inbound transfers from private sellers on gunbroker. They're going to lose $300+/yr in transfer fees from me. Best of all, I found a new LGS that charges half the price for transfers. I'm going to tell all my friends to go there instead.
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Hmmmmm. Come to Illinois. Laws that go full steam next year almost guarantee the small shops go away. And that was by design.
The local shops have already started to close down in my area of Illinois and my Pistol Club now has so few local dealers that we can no longer run Gun Shows.
Lost four local Gun shops in my area this year alone.
Currently, there are only two local Gun Shops and only one of them will I do business with. Neither of them stock any reloading supplies. The only shop that does stock reloading supplies is a hour long drive away in the next state, Wisconsin. Currently, I'm well stocked for what I need in terms of Primers, Powder, and Bullets.
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Not only are the local shops disappearing, but did anyone notice that Copes is gone?
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Not only are the local shops disappearing, but did anyone notice that Copes is gone?
They filed for bankruptcy recently. Very sad.
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Don't like the fact local gun shops keep disappearing? Solution: open your own.
I'm being only partially facetious. A retail gun shop is a high cost, very low margin business, and if I thought I could run it any better I'd gladly do it. There's no way I could run it any better.
Break-ins? Yes, they've had them. Insurance? Forget about it; the high cost of insurance makes it completely out of the question. They self-insure and took a $50,000+ hit last time they were broken into. If it happens again they're gone.
I give my LGS 100% of my business, but I'm just one guy. I recommend them to others but I can't carry them all by myself. I have no idea how they stay in business, but I'm grateful they do. I don't expect them to be around forever. One day they'll have enough and that's that.
Support your LGS!
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We have it pretty good around here. Cabela's, a Camping World/Gander, 3 LGS, and I'm about an hour drive to Whitaker's or one of Bud's satellite stores. All have a good business as I can see, but there is this one cat, has opened and closed a LGS/pawn shop 4 times in the last 8 years. Snarky customer service, offers gun and gold smithing services,(run away from both, you may not get you original parts back), SHADY!!! Banks keep loaning him money so he keeps opening them up. I don't get it.
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Maybe it's just me, but most of the local gun stores I have been familiar with had two bad things in common. 1. Overly opinionated counter people who within a couple of minutes clearly demonstrated their knowledge was minimal and 2. Attitude on the part of the owner (s). I mean unnecessary attitude by the way. They seemed to view customers in an almost adversarial light, and it reflected in how they treated everyone. I had my FFL for a time and I understand some of it, but it went way beyond the understandable. I've had better luck at Pawn shops, where generally nobody is trying to pretend they are firearms experts. But that's just my experience.
I do believe that online sales is having a negative impact on gun shows as well, or so it seems to me. The ones near me seem to be getting smaller, and I'm concerned at the moment that one appears to be discontinuing in the coming year.
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The LGS is not the best way to market guns to a widely dispersed customer base.
A lot of other specialty businesses - independent bookstores, electronics stores, haberdashers, shoe stores, sporting goods, pharmacies, quilt shops, hardware stores, yarn stores, model shops, etc. -- have suffered, or just closed up and went away, from competition by large internet businesses or big box stores with lower overhead and greater scale.
It seems like the remaining small businesses are very much driven by the personal engagement of their owners -- and they tend to disappear when the owner gets old or loses interest -- or when the rent goes up. A gun business must be one of the most frustrating businesses to be in, too -- with all the rules, regulations, and attendant risks of selling guns.
I wonder how much the gun business suffers from the "pass through" taken by the major gun distributors, who act as middlemen between the gun manufacturers and the sales outlets. What percentage do they take? Wouldn't it be cool if you could order a gun directly from the manufacturer, cutting out all the middlemen, and have it shipped directly to a local FFL?
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Local shop says most of his business is internet transfers. He’ll probably be closed by the end did the year.