The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: Lord_Balkan on March 26, 2020, 10:57:16 AM
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Hey, I am trying to brainstorm a jack of all trades rifle. I only have a 22lr bolt action, and I'd like something decently powerful that can fill multiple roles like self defense, home defense, trunk gun, basic hunting, etc.
What I was thinking was a 10.5" AR pistol in .300 blackout. The benefit of that is I can use my conceal carry license with it and keep it in my car. I heard about reliability issues with 223 out of a short barrel like that. What do you guys think?
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It will work well for all of those rolls except maybe hunting. 300Blk with supersonic loads is OK on deer size game out to 100 yards or so from a 16 inch barrel. I'm not sure you could count on bullet performance past 50 yards with a shorter barrel.
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You ask about RIFLE then go pistol. So what is it? Any do-it-all gun is a mix of compromises so nothing will be the best. I run a 10.5” 5.56 barrel and have no issues after thousands of rounds. I have a 16” 300 blackout that I still need to sort out, but dang it’s an accurate single shot!
You could consider having your 300 pistol, adding a 6.5 upper for hunting and a 22lr upper for plinking. Not exactly one gun but it covers all the bases.
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AK-47 semi auto, folding stock?
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You ask about RIFLE then go pistol. So what is it? Any do-it-all gun is a mix of compromises so nothing will be the best. I run a 10.5” 5.56 barrel and have no issues after thousands of rounds. I have a 16” 300 blackout that I still need to sort out, but dang it’s an accurate single shot!
You could consider having your 300 pistol, adding a 6.5 upper for hunting and a 22lr upper for plinking. Not exactly one gun but it covers all the bases.
Legally its a pistol but functionally its a short barrel rifle. I am just looking for advice, thoughts, and suggestions. Maybe an AR pistol is not the best at what I'm looking for, but that's why I'm asking.
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For me, you just described my 527 carbine in 7.62x39. I like it better than my Ruger Gunsite Scout in .308 and I don’t foresee the gun grabbers in my state trying to take it away in the near future - they are currently focused on ARs and the like.
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Tiny? AR15 pistol with a 10.5" barrel in .223/5.56X45. It's more effective than a pistol at any range. Ammo is easier to get than .300 BO.
Small red dot sight.
.223 will kill deer/coyotes/foxes, etc.
I have one in 10.5" and one in 8.5" and neither have ever malfunctioned with standard .223 type ammo (55 grain FMJ - not legal to deer hunt with).
Fits behind a seat, carries light/easy. No less accurate than a rifle (barrel length doesn't make it more/less accurate as a system) with the right ammo and a shooter that knows how to shoot.
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I have this same question lately. Good thread. I'm leaning toward 7.62x39, but I haven't had the opportunity to shoot 300 BO yet.
interesting comment above about a shorter-barrel 300 BO for hunting. My neighbor hunts, typically 100 yds and in, and that's what he's considering going to.
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Hey, I am trying to brainstorm a jack of all trades rifle. I only have a 22lr bolt action, and I'd like something decently powerful that can fill multiple roles like self defense, home defense, trunk gun, basic hunting, etc.
What I was thinking was a 10.5" AR pistol in .300 blackout. The benefit of that is I can use my conceal carry license with it and keep it in my car. I heard about reliability issues with 223 out of a short barrel like that. What do you guys think?
For me- it would be my Ruger mini 30
That said, my do everything rifle (less zombie apocalypse) is my Win 70 in 270.
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AR would be my first choice. 5.56 will do it all mostly. My Socom16 is prety handy though as well. I would think and AK or SKS would be a great choice as well.
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Hey, I am trying to brainstorm a jack of all trades rifle. I only have a 22lr bolt action, and I'd like something decently powerful that can fill multiple roles like self defense, home defense, trunk gun, basic hunting, etc.
What I was thinking was a 10.5" AR pistol in .300 blackout. The benefit of that is I can use my conceal carry license with it and keep it in my car. I heard about reliability issues with 223 out of a short barrel like that. What do you guys think?
someone made a post years ago, that the only thing a handgun is good for to keep they persons head down while they reach for their rifle.
what did "Matthew Quigley" say about handguns and rifles......
before your dreams get out of control, you may want to look at the cost of your 300 BO ammo. Then see what your wallet and bank account says about that dream.
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Hey, I am trying to brainstorm a jack of all trades rifle. I only have a 22lr bolt action, and I'd like something decently powerful that can fill multiple roles like self defense, home defense, trunk gun, basic hunting, etc.
What I was thinking was a 10.5" AR pistol in .300 blackout. The benefit of that is I can use my conceal carry license with it and keep it in my car. I heard about reliability issues with 223 out of a short barrel like that.
What do you guys think?
UMMMMM, NOT.
Can't imagine where you heard that rumor from.
Somebody must have bought a real crappy short barrel AR pistol from somewhere. I've got an aero precision 5.56 ...10 .5 "...no problems whatsoever.
I think you better do more research.
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1. which one is a louder report / more flash out of a pistol (10.5") barrel?
- 300 BO (supersonic)
- 5.56/.223
- 7.62x39
2. which one is a more effective hunting round (medium deer) out to 100 yds and less? (at same barrel length)
- 300 BO (supersonic)
- 7.62x39
(I know, "30-30". but that's not my question....)
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The first question HAS to be what do you want to use the gun for? Do some research RIGHT now and see what is even available. Fenix Ammo is quoting .223 at 4-6 weeks. Going with anything other than .223 is asking for supply chain problems. If you can't get a hold of the gun or you can't get ammo you might as well hold out for a howitzer.
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10.5" AR15, .223, with a "flash can" instead of a flash suppressor. That directs the flash/sound/concussion forward of the shooter instead of sideways around the flash suppressor/muzzle break.
(https://i.imgur.com/svAeNWbl.jpg?1)
I don't have a .300 BO pistol. I do have .300 BO carbine. For the cost of the heavy match bullets (I reload) I can buy 4 times as many 55 grain bullets for the .223 vs. the 220 grain HPBT in .30 caliber.
I've never shot a 220 grain bullet out of the .300 BO carbine. I've shot 150 grain FMJBT and soft point boat tails and the darn thing kicks more than my GII .308 with the same bullets moving a lot faster. It's got an H2 buffer in it and still kicks harder than anything but the M1A or M1 Garand. The BO even has a carbine length gas system, not a pistol length gas system, so port pressure will be lower on the carbine than on the pistols - and it still kicks hard. Even with the faster burning powders used in the BO, the recoil is uncomfortable. I'd rather shoot the M1A or the M1 Garand.
As they say, your mileage may vary.
My youngest son has a .300 BO pistol (AR type). His only comment after shooting it to get it sighted in was, "Little sucker kicks pretty good." He hasn't mentioned taking it shooting since.
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10.5" AR15, .223, with a "flash can" instead of a flash suppressor. That directs the flash/sound/concussion forward of the shooter instead of sideways around the flash suppressor/muzzle break.
(https://i.imgur.com/svAeNWbl.jpg?1)
I don't have a .300 BO pistol. I do have .300 BO carbine. For the cost of the heavy match bullets (I reload) I can buy 4 times as many 55 grain bullets for the .223 vs. the 220 grain HPBT in .30 caliber.
I've never shot a 220 grain bullet out of the .300 BO carbine. I've shot 150 grain FMJBT and soft point boat tails and the darn thing kicks more than my GII .308 with the same bullets moving a lot faster. It's got an H2 buffer in it and still kicks harder than anything but the M1A or M1 Garand. The BO even has a carbine length gas system, not a pistol length gas system, so port pressure will be lower on the carbine than on the pistols - and it still kicks hard. Even with the faster burning powders used in the BO, the recoil is uncomfortable. I'd rather shoot the M1A or the M1 Garand.
As they say, your mileage may vary.
My youngest son has a .300 BO pistol (AR type). His only comment after shooting it to get it sighted in was, "Little sucker kicks pretty good." He hasn't mentioned taking it shooting since.
Flash can / flash forward device,
Is a great addition to any SBR or AR pistol.
First time I went to an indoor range there were 4 out of 6 Lanes being used.
I did not have Flash Forward device on my AR pistol .223. Just a VG6 muzzle brake .
it was a huge concussion in my Lane,
And after the first two 10 round mags everybody left.
Not long after I went to an outdoor range, and the guy in the lane next to me moved down two more spots.
I purchased the Flash Forward device and it was a game changer.
It definitely directs the Flash and concussion forward rather than not having one.
My particular Flash Forward device has a mounting ring that goes on behind the muzzle brake and the Flash can screws on over the muzzle brake.
https://postimg.cc/SJtMb7c8
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What would be the effective range of 223 out of a 9 to 11 " barrel? Is it still good for self defense?
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https://postimg.cc/SJtMb7c8
What brand is that flash forward device? I'm interested in one for a carbine.
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Your effective range will still be at least 300 yds - far beyond I'm sure what you intend for this weapon.
I wouldn't go below 10.5" for .223/5.56 - my personal preference on how much powder I want to convert into 'sound and fury signifying nothing.'
I have a 10.5, 11.5, and a 12.5" in .223 Wylde; given everything, I have found the 12.5 to be the best of all worlds. With a 'k' length 5.56 can, you have a short, light, handy rifle that handles about like a standard AR15 but is borderline hearing safe.
You can cheat the hangman on energy and velocity a little with load selection; MK262 77 gr ammo does better out of short barrels.
For short barrels, the .300BO and 7.62X39 are far better; the cartridge itself and the bore diameter make it far less dependent on barrel length for proper velocity.
7.62X39 is my choice for jack of all trades caliber; I have a CZ527 suppressor ready with a suppressor and subsonic ammo, and a few AK's.
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There are many rifles that fit the "jack of all trades" definition, mostly because different people envision different needs when thinking of such things. If you want a semi-auto, then various designs would qualify. My choice would be my 527 in 7.62x39. One factor to consider is ammunition availability and cost, 300 BO is pricey and a bit less available in cheap bulk compared to others.
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What would be the effective range of 223 out of a 9 to 11 " barrel? Is it still good for self defense?
there are many videos on YouTube showing the effectiveness of an SBR
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https://postimg.cc/SJtMb7c8
What brand is that flash forward device? I'm interested in one for a carbine.
Here ya go...
https://msrarms.com/products/indian-creek-bfd-blast-forwarding-device/
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What would be the effective range of 223 out of a 9 to 11 " barrel? Is it still good for self defense?
https://youtu.be/bNT9VMBGesY
Just do some searching is plenty of stuff out there.
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the 8.5" AR pistol has a Noveske PIG on it. The older/longer style.
the 10.5" AR pistol has a Kineti Tech unit on it. This one:
https://www.kineti-tech.com/kineti-tech-muzzle-brake-with-sound-redirect-with-13-16-x-16-threaded-sleeve-2-piece/
It's two piece. The compensator looking inside screws onto the barrel. The knurled outside shroud screws onto the compensator piece.
I have never shot it with the outside shroud removed.
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My choice in a jack of all trades Rifle would be either one of these:
(http://i.imgur.com/pDl3Bx1l.jpg) (https://imgur.com/pDl3Bx1)
Early Milled Chinese SKS
(http://i.imgur.com/4CeArdXl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/4CeArdX)
AR15A2 HBAR
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Here ya go...
https://msrarms.com/products/indian-creek-bfd-blast-forwarding-device/
TY
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Several years ago I might have given a different answer than today. About 5 years ago I started divesting myself of guns of multiple calibers. Because of ammunition availability, I chose to go with:
Rifle - AR 5.56
Pistol - 9mm
My only two exceptions are a Marlin Model 60 .22 cal. and a Ruger LCP .380
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Here's my pick
A true, Jack of all Trades Rifle
A combo .223 Rem over 20g Savage 24
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/savage-combination-guns/savage-24-223-20-gauge.cfm?gun_id=101409383
Or a 12g over .223 Rem IZH94:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/862253209
Mine is a 12g over .308 Remington SPR94:
(https://i.imgur.com/abr6wTI.jpg)
Added this Ammo Carrier to it:
(https://i.imgur.com/n3QuxBg.jpg)
I know the Barrel is longer than your ideal length, but you'll always have the right Longgun at the ready
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I don't know about jack of all trades, that's an elusive goal. . .but I think this is currently my most versatile "pistol". Basic 300BO build, no crazy exotic parts. 10.5" barrel, SBA4 arm brace. As shown it weighs 6.5lbs and with the brace extended it's the same length as my carbine. With subs it's reasonably quiet and accurate out to 100yds with no effort. Felt recoil is less than my .223 with a single port brake. I reload so ammo cost isn't a factor. I live in the woods, intended purpose is critter control- 2 & 4 legged, 75yds is all I need. It makes a pretty tidy package for truck carry as well. Spend a few dollars more on a folder for the brace and it will be very compact.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200328/a543d7cda49c341ba8c14bb101315798.jpg)
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I’m very biased, but my VZ58 CQB model has become my current “Jack of all trades” rifle. I know that 5.56 would suffice for most situations I’d possibly find myself in but, I just prefer a slightly larger caliber carbine for bigger 4-legged threats, especially since that’s a greater risk for me living in a rural, wooded area.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200328/66db2cfdb3fe519913fbe0d2277f663b.jpg)
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Mine will be the 10.5” AR pistol 556 with a Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x Firedot.
It’s light and handy, Firedot works as RDS, with up-to 4x at disposal for longer range if required.
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Hey, I am trying to brainstorm a jack of all trades rifle. I only have a 22lr bolt action, and I'd like something decently powerful that can fill multiple roles like self defense, home defense, trunk gun, basic hunting, etc.
What I was thinking was a 10.5" AR pistol in .300 blackout. The benefit of that is I can use my conceal carry license with it and keep it in my car. I heard about reliability issues with 223 out of a short barrel like that.
What do you guys think?
UMMMMM, NOT.
Can't imagine where you heard that rumor from.
Somebody must have bought a real crappy short barrel AR pistol from somewhere. I've got an aero precision 5.56 ...10 .5 "...no problems whatsoever.
I think you better do more research.
BCM only sells 11.5" and 12.5" barrels for a reason.
10.5" Mk18s were optimized for use w/ suppressors AND running same overall length as 14.5" M4 carbines...
Most of the rest of the 10.5" since are just copies/clones of that rifle...
Additionally, if you want to go short w/ .223/5.56, you can do so, but they're by far the most reliable w/ a piston system like Adams Arms.
Personally, I'd say 12.5" is ideal for .223/5.56, especially if your defensive rounds are steel ball.
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I’m very biased, but my VZ58 CQB model has become my current “Jack of all trades” rifle. I know that 5.56 would suffice for most situations I’d possibly find myself in but, I just prefer a slightly larger caliber carbine for bigger 4-legged threats, especially since that’s a greater risk for me living in a rural, wooded area.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200328/66db2cfdb3fe519913fbe0d2277f663b.jpg)
An SBRed 7.62x39 in the 12.5" length is pretty awesome. Shouldn't be any issues with over-pressure (meaning you can use all muzzle devices) and you're getting the vast majority of the ballistic performance. And unlike .300 BLK, there's zero kaboom risk w/ 5.56.
More: http://demigodllc.com/articles/7.62x39-improving-the-military-standard/
Also, can't stress enough the importance of not mixing .300 BLK and 5.56. Pick one or the other -- and my advice on that front is 5.56.
And if you have a subsonic itch, build a pistol-caliber AR.