The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: Metal Wonder Nine Guy on April 19, 2021, 09:00:36 AM
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So here’s yet another random question from me. Do you folks still think there is a place for the 20-inch barrel AR15? I've only shot one 20 inch AR once, and that was more of a bench rest gun if anything. How do the longer barreled AR’s handle then? Yeah, the ubiquitous 16-inch AR15 carbine is here to stay, and many shooters are gravitating towards the shorter barreled AR’s nowadays. But there’s something classic about a 20-inch barrel AR.
You also see guys like Paul Harrell rocking the older A1 style AR’s with pretty good accuracy and ballistic results. And a couple years back, there also seemed to be a resurgence with the older style AR's with the Brownell's retro series that recreated the various prototype AR’s.
To top this question off, I was watching this video about Clint Smith talk about the evolution of the AR15. He felt that at least for 5.56/223 AR15's, the optimal barrel length is 20 inches. Timestamped clip is below.
https://youtu.be/uXGnq1iKrUU?t=481
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I think a lot of it comes down to intended usage. If you primarily plan to use your AR as a longer-distance rifle, shooting from static positions, the longer barrel makes sense. If you're prioritizing mobility, esp. in tighter quarters shorter is going to be much better - you may be sacrificing some ballistics, but at closer distances it really doesn't matter. A 16" barrel offers a good middle ground between the two extremes - still able to 'reach out' easily, but more maneuverable than a 20"
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It is funny that you should bring this up but I have one barrel at 20 and another at 16 inches. For the reasons mentioned. I plan on buying another lower.
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I have both 16" and 20" barrels at my ARs. I prefer the "20 barrel due to accuracy. It irritates me if I cannot shoot a 1moa 5-shot group at 100 meters which is the case with 16" barrel. If I were into banging steel and 3gunm then I would go with a 16" or less.
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They certainly have a place, as do barrels longer than 20" and shorter than 16". It really just depends on the intended use (if any) of any particular rifle, pick the best for your application. It's nice to have options. :)
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I like them all. And a 20” no frills A1 or A2 is still a very lightweight and manoeuvrable weapon imo.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210419/38b9e5d87d228609f9b088429c6a2e68.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210419/b64141ce9b4ecdda4459df920d8ed85f.jpg)
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As I tend to use ARs at longer distances and in outdoor settings I prefer longer barrels for the added weight and velocity. Think that if you are looking to shoot 200 yds or less the shorter barrel is probably just fine. If you plan on engaging beyond that a few extra ounces and length are not a significant limitation. Still waiting on my 22 inch Athris 6.5 Grendel, which will be my new General Purpose upper. If I need to clear my house I have a Scorpion.
Good luck on your choices.
JW
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Still have a place? Yep, residing in a gun safe when not in use.
I absolutely prefer shooting my 20" Colt A2 HBAR over my carbine.
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I've a 16,18 and 20 inch. The 16 inch is a good truck gun. The 18 doesn't have a flash hider and is the same length as the 16 inch. I don't care if the animal see a flash before bullet impact. All are used for hunting.
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What will it be used for?
How far can you see/shoot where you live?
How far will you carry it?
How much weight are you willing to carry?
I've built some strictly for hunting. But I don't hunt. So those never go to the range anymore. I think about shooting them, sometime, but never get around to it. I do shoot and carry (road trips, weekends out of state, etc. a 16" or 18" barreled AR15, but I'm not going hunting when I get there.)
Around here, it's about 100 yds., or less. Gotta go find a farm field to see farther than 100 yds. and I don't hunt so, again, the longer barrled guns stay in the safe.
I don't plan to carry it very far at all. But, if something really bad were to happen I might have to head into the woods (again, short ranges) or up the side of a tree covered mountain (again, short ranges) so the shorter barreled guns go on the road with me.
Somehow, even some of the shorter barreled guns end up heavy. My favorite (most expensive) 16" carbine still ended up over 10 lbs. and it has a darn pencil profile barrel under the quad rail (yeah, old build from back when quad rails were the thing). It's only add ons are a light, which is quick/easy to take off, and the optic and sling. Never weighed it without those on it because without the sling and optic it's unusable by me anyway.
AR15's are like kayaks. You find the one that looks perfect and buy it. Then you use it for awhile. And you find that it's not quite right for you, so you find another one that seems to fit you better and you buy that one. And you use it for awhile. Till you find it doesn't quite do everything as well as you'd like. So you start looking at something different.
Then you have to consider things like caliber, magazines, ammo commonality with those you live/travel/likely to be with if you need it for more than just punching holes in paper. I like my GII (small frame DPMS .308 AR) a lot. Barely bigger than a .223 version, only a little heavier and so much more PUNCH on the muzzle end. But my wife carries her .223 on road trips, so I carry a .223 also.
Don't forget parts. Yeah, AR15 parts are everywhere - unless you pick/build an oddball that requires certain parts to fit if you have to make repairs.
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20" 6mmARC barrel works great! I used to hate ARs. They are just boring until now. fits in ar mag and shoots to 1k - I'll take it all day.
I sold all my 223 loading stuff and will most likely never shoot my 223 AR again.
http://brassbucket.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/20210324_134341-scaled.jpg
http://brassbucket.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/skyline200.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjgycnxhAAQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JP6oCPFmmc
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Still have a place? Yep, residing in a gun safe when not in use.
I absolutely prefer shooting my 20" Colt A2 HBAR over my carbine.
I have a number of 20” Colt A2 HBARs.
Have you ever seen the 20” 7.62x39 Colt HBAR?
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Yeah, I'd send that back to ATN.
I have one of the old gen 1's and it's been a tank.
Yeah, I'm gonna run it this weekend but after that its going back. Wish I had just gone thermal clip on.
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Had a 20 that was dead on at longer range. As my eyes and body got older I sold it as I rarely do over 100 yards nowadays and have used my (2) 300 blackout AR's more as of late.
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I have many lengths and I think 20" is best for a bench type rifle. Barrel profile makes at least as much difference in the handling of 16" guns. I prefer the lighter barrels over an M4 profile.
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
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What makes a gun your favorite? Most of us just can't say, "16 inch is more practical so I'm getting rid of the 20" barreled rifles and sticking with the carbines."
Why? Because there is just something about some guns. Did you shoot really good groups with it? Was it always super reliable? Did you make a "fantastic" shot with it at some point? Did you have it with you when something significant/dangerous happened to you? Who gave it to you/left it to you?
All kinds of things cause you to get attached to a gun (besides a sling). Hard to give up/get rid of something you have a(n irrational) tie to. Is for me anyway.
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Still have a place? Yep, residing in a gun safe when not in use.
I absolutely prefer shooting my 20" Colt A2 HBAR over my carbine.
I have a number of 20” Colt A2 HBARs.
Have you ever seen the 20” 7.62x39 Colt HBAR?
Sorry for the late reply, I've never seen or shot a 7.62x39 AR.
Mine is actually stamped Colt Sporter HBAR and manufactured with A-2 sites. I purchased it bnib right when Clinton's AWB was enacted......in its soldered on birdcage flashider, no bayonet lug, ten round magazines & large pin glory.
Never felt the need for a bayonet and the "permanent" hider doesn't effect me.
The only thing I've done to mine was to drop a large pin Geissele trigger in it, use 30 round mags.......... and shoot it.
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As others have mentioned how the rifles going to be used tends to set the requirements. I'm not much of an AR person. My main AR has a one inch diameter barrel that's 24 inch's long. Even with the heavy Magpul adjustable butt stock this rifles muzzle heavy. The rifles set up for gopher shooting so a good trigger and a 6-18X Nikon finish out the set up. It's not practical because of it's weight but it rides a set of shooting bags well and is accurate.
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Still have a place? Yep, residing in a gun safe when not in use.
I absolutely prefer shooting my 20" Colt A2 HBAR over my carbine.
I have a number of 20” Colt A2 HBARs.
Have you ever seen the 20” 7.62x39 Colt HBAR?
Sorry for the late reply, I've never seen or shot a 7.62x39 AR.
Mine is actually stamped Colt Sporter HBAR and manufactured with A-2 sites. I purchased it bnib right when Clinton's AWB was enacted......in its soldered on birdcage flashider, no bayonet lug, ten round magazines & large pin glory.
Never felt the need for a bayonet and the "permanent" hider doesn't effect me.
The only thing I've done to mine was to drop a large pin Geissele trigger in it, use 30 round mags.......... and shoot it.
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/3a/c7/4SWyB4QK_t.jpeg) (https://imgbox.com/4SWyB4QK)
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I have an AR15A2 I built decades ago, that I used for plinking, Target Shooting, and DCM/CMP Matches. With the few modifications I've made to it, it's no longer CMP legal for Matches.
As the Rifle Range I used to shoot at closed down, I've not shot it much lately, but it's still a very good Rifle, accurate and reliable. I do like the idea of having a 20 inch barrel to wring out as much energy as is possible with the 5.56/.223 Caliber.
I have had the itch to build a flat topped 16 inch free float barreled AR Carbine, but with no access to a Rifle Range, it's not been a priority. Currently, my Ruger Mini-14 Scout, Egyptian Maadi AKM, and my much fussed over Century Vz2008/Vz58 serve as my go to Tactical Carbines.
(http://i.imgur.com/4CeArdXl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/4CeArdX)
AR15A2
(http://i.imgur.com/Z74VhiEl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Z74VhiE)
Ruger Mini-14 Scout
(http://i.imgur.com/R2C7bRtl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/R2C7bRt)
CAI Vz2008/Vz58
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It depends. If you are going to be getting in and out of armored vehicles, you probably want to go with a short barrel. Same if you plan on engaging an adversary inside of a building. But, except for the Walter Mitty Commandos out there, a 20 inch barrel is pretty much the way to go. Higher velocity and better accuracy will be the benefits of going with a longer barrel. If the way you look is more important than how well you shoot, then go shorter.
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I love my 20 inch upper that I put together, the rifle length gas system helped smooth the recoil pulse. I shoot from the bench or ground with it and will run and gun with my 16 inch. Each has its purpose.
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As I tend to use ARs at longer distances and in outdoor settings I prefer longer barrels for the added weight and velocity. Think that if you are looking to shoot 200 yds or less the shorter barrel is probably just fine. If you plan on engaging beyond that a few extra ounces and length are not a significant limitation. Still waiting on my 22 inch Athris 6.5 Grendel, which will be my new General Purpose upper. If I need to clear my house I have a Scorpion.
Good luck on your choices.
JW
+1 on the Skorpion for home defense. I have a Galil and Bren and would never think of using them as a home defense weapon (unless there is a Zombie Apocalypse or I see the Chinese People's Liberation Army on my doorstep, with neither scenario likely to happen). If there was a home invasion robbery, I'd pull out the Skorpion. Plenty accurate at the likely range, less noise, and no fear of a round going through walls and hitting the neighbors.