The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ CLONE CLUB => Topic started by: rudukai13 on October 21, 2022, 04:20:11 PM
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From “The Churn”, a novella in The Expanse literary universe:
Burton got up, raising a finger. Timmy sat deep in his chair, like a trained dog receiving a command. Sylvia-whoever was singing in the bathroom, the splash of water against porcelain covering the sound of Burton opening the gun safe - pulling out the pistol and its magazine. When he stepped back into the main room, Timmy hadn’t so much as crossed his legs. Burton held the gun out.
“You know what this is?” he asked.
“It’s a ten millimeter semi-auto,” Timmy said. He put his hand out half-way to it and then looked up at Burton, his eyes asking permission. Burton nodded and smiled. Timmy took the gun.
“You know guns?”
Timmy shrugged. “They’re around.” Burton tossed the magazine onto the boys lap.
“You know how those things all go together?” Timmy weighed the pistol in one hand, the magazine in the other. He slid them together, checked the chamber, flicked the safety on and off. It wasn’t the practiced action of a professional, but ‘talented amateur’ was good enough for his purposes. Timmy looked up, his smile blank and empty.
“New job?” he asked.
“New job,” Burton said.
Hello everyone! I’m a bit new here so let me take a minute to introduce myself and the purpose of this thread: I like building guns. It’s kind of what I do. Modifying, personalizing, changing parts to suit my needs and desires. This hobby of mine has had some rather unique and interesting results previously:
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_09/74E685E5-D535-4E33-AF7A-D4595C8BEAE4.jpeg.7efae65878f2ba7339d22924b6bb6638.jpeg)
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_08/5502C35E-AA12-48A9-BCE5-82FA9806DCD3.jpeg.e62ebb9a467b055c194efea1597c80b4.jpeg)
This thread will become the home of my next build, which is based on a Tanfoglio Defiant Limited Master chambered in 10mm:
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/AF30B32D-7B19-41DC-ACDB-4C324385085A.jpeg.969d96670ffbe251f6fa83cf5f1e28ce.jpeg)
In the thread I’ll be chronicling the work that gets done to the pistol, range trips, problems, thoughts, and just generally how it develops over time.
This gun will serve two purposes. The primary purpose is as a spiritual successor to my P320-based Project Nemesis. Which is to say, I intend to turn this gun into the highest-performing, most broadly capable, do-anything-I-can-think-of workhorse pistol. This gun WILL BE a practical use, home- and self-defense firearm. It will predominantly take up residence on my night stand and I’ll be using it for just about anything and everything I can think of. The gun will not be built to any particular specification, competition division, or pre-conceived notion of what a defensive pistol can and can’t be. When I originally built my P320, I was building the gun I’d envisioned for decades as the pinnacle of handgun performance and generalized capability. This gun follows the same general spirit, it’s just version 2.
Secondly, and from where the gun, the project, and the thread get their title from - this is the gun I envision when reading about the character of Amos Burton, from the literary version of The Expanse universe, a series of science fiction novels and shorter novellas by James S.A. Corey (also a very successful Amazon Prime series).
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/image.jpeg.e67dd18773652977b1694a736da0da4e.jpeg)
Throughout the thread I’ll be posting short snippets from the various novels, similar to the one I left at the beginning of this thread. When all said and done (if that ever actually happens) not only will the gun be incredibly practical and useable as a modern firearm, it will embody my current perspective on where I see the design philosophy of pistols moving in the future - hopefully, this gun will be fit for the meaty hands of a quasi-immortal grease monkey in the 23rd century. Oh, and there will be some small spoilers here and there if you haven’t already read the novels. You’ve been warned. For those of you unsure, yes: that makes this a gun inspired by science fiction and fully intended for extremely practical, real-world use in present day. That’s kind of how I roll.
As of now, I’ve had the gun home for about 24 hours and I’ve got some initial impressions. First and foremost, holy chunky boy. I knew a fullsize steel-frame gun would be quite a bit heavier than the pistols I’ve become accustomed to over the last few years, but I love the weight and balance of this thing - especially with the Surefire hanging off the rail.
The trigger is - I cannot understate this - phenomenal. The stock trigger comes with adjustable pre- and over-travel screws, and my gunsmith got them tightened up before I took the gun home from my local FFL. There is minimal travel both before and after the break, and the trigger snaps at what I’d estimate is roughly 3.5lbs.
Mechanically, the safety is excellent. It snicks on and off with authority and no wiggle between positions. The gun comes stock with asymmetrical extended safeties, with a much larger shelf on the left side of the gun intended as a thumb rest for your strong hand.
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/AF95B5FE-46A9-475E-9628-4A27F0D418C0.jpeg.d2a00661473196f65b839ef6f940051a.jpeg)
It’s extremely ergonomic, well positioned, well shaped, and comfortable - for a right-handed shooter. Me being a southpaw, it’s a useless lump of metal on the wrong side of the gun, with a pointy corner that digs into the first knuckle on my trigger finger something fierce.
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/56762110-CA07-44FE-9903-A8C0D4FC2642.jpeg.e12e0dbc3509622e91b8c21ca1161414.jpeg)
I can’t imagine this won’t bite me this weekend when I take the gun to the range the first time. I’ve already ordered a set of symmetrical thumb safeties that don’t include the extended shelf, which come on the Defiant Stock Limited DA/SA model of this gun.
The slide-in-frame CZ-style construction obviously means there isn’t as much real estate for manipulating the slide as one might be used to, but the area that is provided is well utilized. The four little serrations on the rear sides of the slide don’t look like they’d do all that much, but look closer:
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/91816DA4-AA6B-41EB-82B1-D4705940663A.jpeg.6a4050d450835956571cc9f0d8a0255f.jpeg)
As Amos would say, god bleep are those some sharply serrated little bastards. They stick to your hand like sand paper and make manipulating the slide extremely easy.
I’ll be taking the gun to the range for the first time this weekend. I received a small selection of various common FMJ/JHP loads to run initial break-in and reliability testing with.
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/6E36D1B4-EA00-4E82-AEAF-4CA35D272986.jpeg.4f3d303db958e09f172d6593bc949d80.jpeg)
We’ll see how it runs and what it likes and, more importantly, anything it dislikes. I’ll probably wind up buying the Sig 180gr FMJ/JHP combination and stacking it deep, as my understanding is it strikes a good balance between common availability, price, and true potential of the 10mm cartridge.
I’ve also placed an order for a Henning conefit guide rod and Wolff 20lb recoil spring. Both items are intended to help prevent larger-caliber Tanfos from beating themselves to death prematurely, and I’m very interested in making sure this gun stays in good condition well into the future. You might say I’m building it to be the “Last Gun Standing”.
I’ve also got some Henning extended base pads with Grams Engineering spring and follower kits coming for the stock magazines, because MOAR.
There will be plenty more to come for this gun in the future, so if you’re interested in following along please subscribe to this thread. Feel free to post any questions, comments, objections, criticisms, etc and I’ll do my best to reply! :D
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Welcome to the Forum and looking forward to seeing how your project develops! :)
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Welcome! Would love to see a write up on the other build's details as well.
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Thank you!
I’ve got a range reservation at 4pm today and my parts from Henning (guide rod, recoil spring, base pads) are out for delivery and should get to me in time to throw them on the gun before going to the range later this afternoon. Much more to come later today!
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Welcome! Would love to see a write up on the other build's details as well.
The project threads for each of the previous builds are here:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Introducing-Project-Nemesis-The-P320-Roland-Special/14-182311/ (https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Introducing-Project-Nemesis-The-P320-Roland-Special/14-182311/)
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/An-Abomination-The-Schofield-has-been-desecrated/33-203192/ (https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/An-Abomination-The-Schofield-has-been-desecrated/33-203192/)
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Just-For-Fun-Project-The-Apache-Pug-Pugsly-Von-Knuckleduster-lives-/33-198595/ (https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Just-For-Fun-Project-The-Apache-Pug-Pugsly-Von-Knuckleduster-lives-/33-198595/)
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Rudukai13-s-desecrated-wheelgun-projects-consolidated-thread/33-205558/ (https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Rudukai13-s-desecrated-wheelgun-projects-consolidated-thread/33-205558/)
Both of the revolvers were also featured on The Firearm Blog under their Wheelgun Wednesday segment:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/07/20/apache-revolver/amp/ (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/07/20/apache-revolver/amp/)
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/08/03/desecrating-schofield-revolver/amp/ (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/08/03/desecrating-schofield-revolver/amp/)
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(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/DC6E6F76-F6D2-4ABF-9A56-11B8A9A1E0AF.jpeg.6203503ba70655fb0a85f237890dd5b7.jpeg)
Well, the base pads and magazine internals were delivered on time to go to the range today, but it’s looking like the guide rod and recoil spring won’t show up in time for the lane reservation. So I’ll just have a before and after comparison between the stock recoil spring and the Wolff 20lb item. Those base pads were some of the easiest magazine extensions I’ve ever installed, I really like the Henning retention system.
Taking all the ammo with me, I expect I’ll be able to get through at least a couple hundred rounds in the hour and that’ll be a good first trip. Assuming nothing goes unexpectedly wrong, I’ll probably bulk order some Sig FMJ and JHP loads later today. More updates in a bit when I’m home from the range!
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(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/28D4795A-E475-49C9-A4B2-1F34544045F9.jpeg.710e800958895095b496a4fec6e8dd7f.jpeg)
It’s good news all around! The Tanfo chugged through his first 250 rounds without a single malfunction or hiccup today. It’s very interesting, the recoil profile reminds me a lot of the 6” Ruger GP100 I used to own firing various 357Mag loads - obviously quite a bit of power coming out of the muzzle, but with a lot of weight to help soak up most of the flip before it gets to my hand.
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/3C24E28A-326F-4507-B31E-7558DA0B556B.jpeg.5918e02f41da5ccfc5bfecc76394c211.jpeg)
The gun didn’t have any issue loading and feeding between FMJ and JHP bullets, including when I did my initial range trip “candy cane” loading of every different kind of ammo I had randomly loaded into the magazines. The Sig 180gr loads are a bit more powerful than the other FMJ, but I like that they duplicate the 180gr JHP loads in recoil profile - so identically I couldn’t tell the difference between the two when the rounds were randomly alternated back and forth in the same magazine. Since the gun didn’t have any issues with either of them, I’m going to designate Sig’s 180gr FMJ/JHP pairing as the combination to purchase in bulk for this gun.
The extended safety on the left side of the gun did dig into my trigger finger knuckle some, but not nearly as badly as I’d expected:
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/F7D23D52-3C72-40F1-883E-CF84D460833D.jpeg.d08e0a904fc10f1a902ed89bf2da48d1.jpeg)
No matter anyway, it’ll be getting replaced with the symmetrical ambi safety soon. When I got home from the range, the Henning Conefit guide rod and Wolff 20lb recoil spring were waiting. Got those switched into the gun during my once-over and wipe-down after the first range trip.
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/24B4C8EF-D7DF-4DDA-8A53-EA255DE06F69.jpeg.bb746e8039572bb79479163ff48fdf91.jpeg)
It’ll be interesting to see how the heavier recoil spring changes the recoil profile of the 180gr loads, and it’ll be good knowing the Henning guide rod is helping to extend the life of the frame well into the future.
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/D0EEAA2D-7792-42C4-8B26-6CF7449E79E3.jpeg.070bd0d6b11adc6250913bc3783b60b7.jpeg)
More to come!
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(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/36B6F3D1-F277-479E-A9AC-3F4EA28CA829.jpeg.6d64e135ad27fe3e319d549752bd49f7.jpeg)
Since I was curious I weighed it up - 3lbs 5.1oz, or 53.1oz. That’s a step up from my P320 which was 43.1oz similarly configured, and the Tanfo doesn’t even have a compensator - yet
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Welcome welcome welcome! Big Tanfoglio fan here. Very interested in this build. I had a Defiant Stock I small frame with the same rear slide serrations. They were a little off-putting to me at first but I loved the overall styling of the pistol so much I looked past it. But I did like the feel/grip of the serrations. I will be purchasing the Defiant Stock Master small frame when the bank account permits. ;D Oh, and I really like the knuckle .22 also. Would love to have one of those. Thanks for the post and I look forward to more.
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Welcome to the group. I beleive the 10mm Tanfoglio is the epitome of a do it all gun. I'm very interested in seeing your interpretation. My gun is a compact poly frame with a full length slide and barrel and a slide riding Romeo Zero red dot. It's my favorite pistol to shoot and carry.
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(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/42C7E403-B838-4487-BEFA-F6B6D8DF0045.jpeg.1fa010c2e471f45f5ac275276ad296e0.jpeg)
Took the time to get a decent picture of pistol tonight. New ambi safety should be here by Tuesday. The pistol WILL be getting a threaded barrel and short compensator, which is currently being worked on by Patriot Defense. They make a threaded barrel & comp setup for the Limited Master but only in 9mm currently. As soon as the 10mm version becomes available, it’ll be going on Timmy
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Good call on the safety swap and Patriots Defense is a good choice.
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Mr. rudukai13 -
Please, shrink the size of your photos. Thanks.
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Mr. rudukai13 -
Please, shrink the size of your photos. Thanks.
Will do going forward, my apologies! I’m on my phone so it’s difficult to tell what the proper size should be when uploading
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Is there a way to fill in the empty notches where the sights were removed? I know it's a nitpick but tbh I think it would complete the look. But overall this is a sick build 8)
Edit - The front I think looks just fine. On the rear if you could buy a cheap rear sight then machine it down it would fill the gap. Then you could color match with a heat resistant paint. Or a slide racker would look cool too.
https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Gun-Parts/Pistols-Other/Tanfoglio/Miscellaneous-Small-Parts/TONI-SYSTEM-Charging-handle-Slide-Racker-for-Tanfoglio
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Will do going forward, my apologies! I’m on my phone so it’s difficult to tell what the proper size should be when uploading
Most screens will fully view up to ~600 pixels without having to scroll L/R. Thanks.
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Is there a way to fill in the empty notches where the sights were removed? I know it's a nitpick but tbh I think it would complete the look. But overall this is a sick build 8)
Edit - The front I think looks just fine. On the rear if you could buy a cheap rear sight then machine it down it would fill the gap. Then you could color match with a heat resistant paint. Or a slide racker would look cool too.
https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Gun-Parts/Pistols-Other/Tanfoglio/Miscellaneous-Small-Parts/TONI-SYSTEM-Charging-handle-Slide-Racker-for-Tanfoglio
I've been hoping slide racker. Even if he had it on the left side so it doesn't poke him in a concealment holster I think it would still be a functional addition.
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Is there a way to fill in the empty notches where the sights were removed? I know it's a nitpick but tbh I think it would complete the look. But overall this is a sick build 8)
Edit - The front I think looks just fine. On the rear if you could buy a cheap rear sight then machine it down it would fill the gap. Then you could color match with a heat resistant paint. Or a slide racker would look cool too.
https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Gun-Parts/Pistols-Other/Tanfoglio/Miscellaneous-Small-Parts/TONI-SYSTEM-Charging-handle-Slide-Racker-for-Tanfoglio
I've been hoping slide racker. Even if he had it on the left side so it doesn't poke him in a concealment holster I think it would still be a functional addition.
I may add something eventually, right now I like having the rearmost ledge machined in the slide for catching on things for one-handed manipulations if needed. I may add a slide racker and cut the handle off just to fill the dovetail. That’ll be in the future though
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Alright, ordered up some more Sig 180gr FMJ/JHP, and went ahead and ordered some Patriot Defense aluminum grips with a little more aggressive texture. Not their most aggressive pattern, but should still help make the gun a little stickier:
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-doka6btgom/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/948/2117/patriot-defense-tanfoglio-custom-grip-red__39536.1589734371__17748.1653327959.jpg
So we’ve got symmetrical ambi safety in transit, ammo and grips ordered. All should be here by this weekend, when I’ll probably take the gun back to my gunsmith to swap the safety, zero the gun at 25yds with the Sig JHP ammo, and I’ll probably have the ‘smith trim the slide lock lever off of the retaining pin. Unless and until someone comes up with an ambi slide stop lever for the gun, I don’t have any use for the single-sided slide stop, so might as well get it off there
ETA not sure how to make that image smaller, it’s a link to a web image…
[Mods: Then simply post the link and NOT the image.]
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https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_10/5E0901FE-5CD5-4E09-9044-15DF9C9B88C2.jpeg.9ac1b85a2581d5d174a88593d2e19ffe.jpeg
Well the ambi safety is a bit late getting here, issue seems to be with FedEx though not Patriot Defense. Not that important though, it won’t be going on the gun until at least this weekend anyway when I can get it all to my gunsmith. Currently on ready standby
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:o How can I change the size of an image to acquiesce to the request of the Admin…?
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:o How can I change the size of an image to acquiesce to the request of the Admin…?
Don't know, as I'm not familiar with your Image Host.
However, I'm not having ANY issues with the size of your Photos. I like your Pics the way they are.
But then again, I'm looking at them on a 27 inch PC Monitor and a PC with HDMI video.
Could be a problem for People with Smartphones and Tablets, but I don't know about that for sure.
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:o How can I change the size of an image to acquiesce to the request of the Admin…?
Don't know, as I'm not familiar with your Image Host.
However, I'm not having ANY issues with the size of your Photos. I like your Pics the way they are.
But then again, I'm looking at them on a 27 inch PC Monitor and a PC with HDMI video.
Could be a problem for People with Smartphones and Tablets, but I don't know about that for sure.
The image host is another forum. I scale them all down when I upload them there initially already
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:o How can I change the size of an image to acquiesce to the request of the Admin…?
The image host is another forum. I scale them all down when I upload them there initially already
YOU must host your own photos. We suggest IMGUR.
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:o How can I change the size of an image to acquiesce to the request of the Admin…?
The image host is another forum. I scale them all down when I upload them there initially already
YOU must host your own photos. We suggest IMGUR.
Oh well that’s not gonna happen. I’ll just leave images as URL links then, apologies for the frustrations!
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Excuse me.
These are being presented as photos of YOUR guns and YOUR gunsmithing work. How is it that (presumably) your photos of YOUR handiwork is not being controlled by YOU ??
I find that very hard to believe. Sir, you have some explaining to do.
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Excuse me.
These are being presented as photos of YOUR guns and YOUR gunsmithing work. How is it that (presumably) your photos of YOUR handiwork is not being controlled by YOU ??
I find that very hard to believe.
Wut? ???
These are my guns. I have a gunsmith that does the complicated work on them for me. The photos are taken by me and “under my control”.
What I’m not doing is creating a profile on a social media website just to then be able to post them on this forum at a different size. Out of all the forums I use and have posted this project to - including AR15.com, Brian Enos forums, and Primary & Secondary - this is the only one that doesn’t allow me to directly upload photos without hosting them somewhere else first
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This is what we don't understand: You can spend 100's hours modifying multiple guns, but not 15 minutes on hosting your photos. This seems very strange. This brings into question the legitimacy of this entire thread.
Sir, the answer is simple: Our sandbox, our rules. This website is simply more rigorously moderated than your typical fan-boy gun site.
End of discussion.
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Nice!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This is what we don't understand: You can spend 100's hours modifying multiple guns, but not 15 minutes on hosting your photos. This seems very strange. This brings into question the legitimacy of this entire thread.
Sir, the answer is simple: Our sandbox, our rules. This website is simply more rigorously moderated than your typical fan-boy gun site.
End of discussion.
- Deleting a post asking why you’re treating a new member with open hostility isn’t a good look.
- “We” don’t seem to have any issue with anything I’ve done, including your other moderators: you do.
- I will be happy to post a picture proving ownership of the pistol in question later today. I would’ve already done so, but like most productive members of society I work for a living during the day and don’t currently have the gun with me at the office.
- It’s not about the time. It’s about refusing to contribute to yet another big-tech supported social media platform.
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30 days moderated status for back talking the admin.
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:o How can I change the size of an image to acquiesce to the request of the Admin…?
Don't know, as I'm not familiar with your Image Host.
And THAT is the issue here. This new user has at least 3 different image hosts, which raises questions as to their true ownership.