The Original CZ Forum

CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ82 & CZ83 CLUB => Topic started by: ck on December 17, 2010, 01:32:23 PM

Title: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 17, 2010, 01:32:23 PM
Nothing says Christmas like the purchase of a gun.  Thank you SOG.

In the next few days I'll take possession of a CZ-82, and it will be my very first gun.  Consequently, while I'm sure its purchase was a prudent decision, I lack the knowledge to properly inspect it upon receipt.  (I'll run it by a friend's house, for a quick once over.)

Could anyone give me some pointers of what to look for?  Maybe potential weak points, etc? 

What should I keep my eyes open for?
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 17, 2010, 01:57:36 PM
Understand that this pistol shoots 9mm Makarov ammo, not the more common 9mm Luger round. Shooting Luger ammo in the -82 cold be disasterous. Mak rounds are slightly shorter but larger in diameter.

The most obvious weak point, to me at least, is the grips. Because they use a single screw attachment and no other pin to secure/position them, the grips tend to work loose during firing. The grips also had cracked support strips on both -82s I bought. Nothing that interfered with operation, but I chose to order wood grips from Marschals in Hungary.

Some have put a small "o-ring" under the screws to help keep them from loosening, but I've used thin (photo album) double-sided tape to prevent the grips from shifting.

Some have problems with the mag release being difficult. It disassembles easily and can be cleaned/polished up to help.

The CZ-82 uses the same part as the -83, the exception being the barrel and the slide lock lever. The -83 has a square trigger guard (which I don't like) but I believe it will fit the -82.

Expect the pistol to be gummed up, many are sprayed with a preservative. It takes a thorough cleaning to get it all out. A can of "non-chlorine" brake cleaner will do the job. Break down the mag(s) also. They can be pretty dirty inside. The bore is larger than a 9mm Luger (.365 to be exact) and you'll probably need a larger brush to clean it. I use a .40 brush with no problems.

Don't be alarmed if it looks like the rifling is all shot out. It will look like a smoothbore. That's normal.

There's no telling what wear and tear the recoil spring might have or # of rounds fired, so I'd suggest ordering a replacement recoil spring or calibration pack from Wolffs. It comes with a new hammer spring also, which is easily replaced.

I refinished mine with DuraCoat (see avatar), but it's by no means a requirement. Functionally, I haven't any issues with mine and it's gobbled up all factory ammo and reloads I run thru it. Great gun, my favorite shooter.

Here's a couple of sites that will assist you in maintaining it:

http://sailorcurt.blogspot.com/2008/04/cz-82-gunsmithing-part-1.html (http://sailorcurt.blogspot.com/2008/04/cz-82-gunsmithing-part-1.html)

http://myweb.cableone.net/leolani/cz-82-disassembly.html (http://myweb.cableone.net/leolani/cz-82-disassembly.html)

http://www.marschalgrips.com/?content=CZ-models (http://www.marschalgrips.com/?content=CZ-models)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 17, 2010, 02:22:06 PM
Enjoy your CZ-82 (first of how many more, I wonder?)  ;D
CZ's are addicting, believe me!  ::)
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 17, 2010, 04:45:03 PM
Understand that this pistol shoots 9mm Makarov ammo, not the more common 9mm Luger round. Shooting Luger ammo in the -82 cold be disasterous. Mak rounds are slightly shorter but larger in diameter.
This, I knew.  9mm Mak is easily available around here...I've already checked.  Heck, there's even a CheaperThanDirt outlet in this general area.

Quote
The most obvious weak point, to me at least, is the grips. Because they use a single screw attachment and no other pin to secure/position them, the grips tend to work loose during firing. The grips also had cracked support strips on both -82s I bought. Nothing that interfered with operation, but I chose to order wood grips from Marschals in Hungary.
I was more concerned about mechanical issues, like the decocker.  I've read that it can be an issue, or that the hammer can drop, but what do I actually look for when inspecting it?

Quote
The CZ-82 uses the same part as the -83, the exception being the barrel and the slide lock lever. The -83 has a square trigger guard (which I don't like) but I believe it will fit the -82.
It appears that a lot of parts are interchangeable between the 82 and 83, so parts availability should not be an issue.  Glad to have that confirmed.

Quote
Expect the pistol to be gummed up, many are sprayed with a preservative. It takes a thorough cleaning to get it all out. A can of "non-chlorine" brake cleaner will do the job. Break down the mag(s) also. They can be pretty dirty inside. The bore is larger than a 9mm Luger (.365 to be exact) and you'll probably need a larger brush to clean it. I use a .40 brush with no problems.
Field strip cleaning, or total disassembly cleaning?  I've read that reassembling the 82 is akin to an IQ test.

Quote
Don't be alarmed if it looks like the rifling is all shot out. It will look like a smoothbore. That's normal.
Polygonal rifling...Bersa 380 has the same kind of rifling.

Quote
Here's a couple of sites that will assist you in maintaining it:
http://sailorcurt.blogspot.com/2008/04/cz-82-gunsmithing-part-1.html (http://sailorcurt.blogspot.com/2008/04/cz-82-gunsmithing-part-1.html)

http://myweb.cableone.net/leolani/cz-82-disassembly.html (http://myweb.cableone.net/leolani/cz-82-disassembly.html)

http://www.marschalgrips.com/?content=CZ-models (http://www.marschalgrips.com/?content=CZ-models)
*This* will likely be helpful, thank you.  And yes, those Marschal grips are beautiful, but let me get the gun, in my hands, first.

Talk about a helpful forum...and a helpful member.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SMSgt
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 17, 2010, 06:56:49 PM
Enjoy your CZ-82 (first of how many more, I wonder?)  ;D
CZ's are addicting, believe me!  ::).
Let me guess.  Run.  Run now.  Run while I still can.

Sound about right?

I don't even have the gun yet, and I'm already thinking about stripping it, blueing it, custom grips, etc.  This forum is helpful, but also dangerous...some of those pics in the other threads look *amazing.*

Help me.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: jcrntx on December 17, 2010, 09:21:12 PM
No help for you at this point, better to just enjoy the ride!

As a side note to some of the info above, the CZ83/82 barrels are exchangeable, just normally a different caliber.  CZ occasionally puts out a run of 9x18 makarov 83s but have not seen one in a while.   The slide stop is the same, but on the new 83s (ones with the squared trigger guard) they have a different slide stop spring.

Anyways, you will no doubt enjoy it.  Lots of experienced folks on here can help if you have any issues.  Good luck and happy holidays!
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 17, 2010, 10:56:00 PM
"Field strip cleaning, or total disassembly cleaning?  I've read that reassembling the 82 is akin to an IQ test."

No "decocker" on the -82, safety only. Decock carefully with your thumb!

Remove the grips and slide. I'd also remove the firing pin, which is easy. Just keep a finger over the end as you slide off the little cover. A lot of gunk can build up in there. I clean the firing pin and its chamber (Q-tips wwork fine) with every gun cleaning. It's that easy to do!

A spray cleaner works well ( a can of brake cleaning spray is a lot cheaper than the so-called "gun cleaners), as does a bucket of solvent and a paintbrush. Just gotta get the preservative goop out. I applied a coat of Rem-oil spray afterwards and wiped it all down, then a "thin" coat of grease to the rails. Since then I've gone almost entirely to Gunzilla.

Complete disassembly is no problem if you follow the sites I gave. Reassembly can be tedious, especially the sear parts. Patience is a virtue. After 3-4 attempts, you learn the tricks--tape and toothpicks! Something the sites don't mention very well is the hammer spring can (and will) fall out easily and will not go back in without more disassembly. Once you initially install the hammer spring--tape it in place!

I haven't had any problems with the hammer "drop" so you'll have to read up on the other recent posts on that issue.

Whether to refinish or not is a personal choice. I bought mine purposely for a project gun, figuring at that price it was a throw away if things went bad. It was actually in pretty good condition. Paint remover strips the OEM finish right off. A dab of DayGlo-Orange model paint really makes the front sight and rear sight dots stand out, even in dim lighting.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 17, 2010, 11:05:13 PM

As a side note to some of the info above, the CZ83/82 barrels are exchangeable, just normally a different caliber.  CZ occasionally puts out a run of 9x18 makarov 83s but have not seen one in a while.   The slide stop is the same, but on the new 83s (ones with the squared trigger guard) they have a different slide stop spring.

I've read of a couple people who replaced their -82 barrel with the -83 barrel and just shot .380s instead, with no problems.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 18, 2010, 01:41:51 AM
Interesting. 

A client is a gunsmith by trade, and owes me a few favors.  Now you've got me thinking...
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 18, 2010, 10:08:59 AM
I enjoy the Mak round, always liked something "different" that the run-of-the-mill factory ammo and sought out the unusual such as the .30 Herritt in the Thompson Contender. You couldn't even buy factory ammo for that, had to make it from .30-30 cases.

The only real limitation I see with the Mak caliber is the lack of a good SD round. The blow-back design limits the pressure ranges of the round.

I'm not impressed with reports on the 9mm Mak Hornady SD round (if it can even be found) and Buffalo Bore dropped theirs. The Silver Bear FMJs and HPs seems to be suitable, although I haven't tried them yet. Right now I shooting strictly LRN reloads.

I haven't seen a great deal of .380 ammo with any advantages over the Mak, but with the upsurge in .380 popularity all of a sudden, I'm sure some decent (as decent as .380 can get!) SD rounds will emerge. If my MAK barrel went south on me, I'd consider replacing it with the .380 barrel. Until then, I really like my handmade cartridges!
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 18, 2010, 10:44:27 AM
Mak doesn't seem to be hard to obtain...there's always the online option, and I've seen it in local stores.  However, it's nice to know that I can convert it to .380 if I so desire.  And, a search showed that the .380 barrel is fairly cheap from CZ-USA, so it's a practical conversion.

This should be interesting.  I've purchased something sight unseen, and am already redesigning it, before even having it in my hands.  Yep, this project is very me.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 18, 2010, 11:41:13 AM
This should be interesting.  I've purchased something sight unseen, and am already redesigning it, before even having it in my hands.  Yep, this project is very me.

Just to whet your appetite some more, here's my CZ-82
with Tuff Gun-coated slide and simulated ivory grips.  ::)

(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab44/Pinoy_Photog/CZ82001WebSmaller.jpg)
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 18, 2010, 12:27:07 PM
They had pimps in them commie countries too?  :o
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 18, 2010, 12:35:08 PM
It's very attractive, and it matches your computer very well, indeed.  Your refinishing job looks top notch.  Who did it?

Anyway, it looks nicely done.  I'm guessing that you call it your 9x18 iMak.  ;)

I wonder what the Apple hippies would think of that piece?
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 18, 2010, 01:20:07 PM
They had pimps in them commie countries too?  :o


Commie pimps had pearl grips, not ivory! Hehe!  ;D

(Gen. George S. Patton, when asked by a war correspondent in WW II if those
were pearl grips he had on the twin revolvers he wore to battle, replied:
"Only pimps use pearl-handled guns. These, sir, are ivory.")
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 18, 2010, 01:22:26 PM
It's very attractive, and it matches your computer very well, indeed.  Your refinishing job looks top notch.  Who did it?

Anyway, it looks nicely done.  I'm guessing that you call it your 9x18 iMak.  ;)

I wonder what the Apple hippies would think of that piece?

Thanks. It's a DIY homeshop job. Was experimenting with the coating, prior to doing the entire gun.

LOL @ 9x18 iMak!  ;D
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 19, 2010, 12:16:01 AM
Well, you did a great job.  It looks very professional...and it makes for a pair of iMac/iMak siblings.  I can tell what color is your favorite.

Hopefully my -82 will be coming in the next few days.  It's been ordered, and I'm getting anxious.  Hope I get a good one.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 19, 2010, 05:25:12 AM
Well, you did a great job.  It looks very professional...and it makes for a pair of iMac/iMak siblings.  I can tell what color is your favorite.

Hopefully my -82 will be coming in the next few days.  It's been ordered, and I'm getting anxious.  Hope I get a good one.


Thanks! Yes, as you observed, my fave color is "Battlefield Gray!"  ;D

Most military -82's are on-duty sidearms, and as such were more carried than shot. You should get a good one! Enjoy!!!  :D
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: geen on December 19, 2010, 11:13:06 AM
Wolf springs are great just put a 16.5lb in my CZ and the felt recoil is lighter

The noted sites in earlier posts are great. I was able to take mine apart and do a cold bluing and got it back together with only one slight problem.  When you take it apart be sure to remove the slide stop spring before you punch out the slide stop or you will shear the spring. the spring will look good but after shearing it off it will be too short to use.  But luckily you can find replacements on the internet.  The replacement slide stop springs for the CZ 83 require you to do more gunsmithing that I can handle. here are some pics of my newly blued CZ
 
 
(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/geen25/100_07592.jpg)

(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/geen25/100_07632.jpg)

(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/geen25/100_07642.jpg)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: painter on December 19, 2010, 12:05:40 PM
Very nice.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 19, 2010, 12:59:29 PM
  here are some pics of my newly blued CZ

I like your wood grips! Where did you get them from?  :)
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 19, 2010, 01:09:44 PM
here are some pics of my newly blued CZ

OK, even sight unseen, I've decided.  Mine is getting blued.  DROOL!  And *so* much better than the epoxy finish, even in low res internet photos.

WOW!

The logo looks sculpted by CNC.  Marschal?  The wood doesn't look like any on his site...looks more like sandalwood.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Davidov on December 19, 2010, 03:51:19 PM
here are some pics of my newly blued CZ

I see you have a different front sight.  I may want to do that too.  Tell me more geen. Thanks

AI
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: geen on December 19, 2010, 11:20:17 PM
the grips come from here

http://www.grips4u.net/index.php?cPath=48_65 (http://www.grips4u.net/index.php?cPath=48_65) 

the gun has a green fiber optic front sight which was installed by the previous owner.  Not sure if it would be my first choice but I like the sight enought to leave in there at least for now,
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 20, 2010, 01:16:59 AM
the grips come from here

http://www.grips4u.net/index.php?cPath=48_65 (http://www.grips4u.net/index.php?cPath=48_65) 
 

Thanks for the grip link. It's nice to see that they use Linseed Oil.
I hand rub all my wood stocks and grips with Linseed Oil, too, as
it gives that classic look to the wood and brings out the textures.
It's also the best way to keep my hands busy while watching TV.  :)
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 20, 2010, 01:31:21 AM
All these grips seem to be CNC milled, which means that there are G-Code patterns for them, in existence.

Anyone have access to that G-Code?  I've got plans worked up for building a small CNC router for home use, and have most of the parts.  I need a reason to actually build it.  :)

What do the backs of the -82 grips look like?  Are they basically flat, or is there 3D sculpting involved?
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 20, 2010, 03:11:17 AM
All these grips seem to be CNC milled, which means that there are G-Code patterns for them, in existence.

Anyone have access to that G-Code?  I've got plans worked up for building a small CNC router for home use, and have most of the parts.  I need a reason to actually build it.  :)
 

Wow! Does this mean we can buy same quality grips from you
(at lesser prices) when you build your router and get the G-Code?  :D
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: geen on December 20, 2010, 06:50:04 AM
Ck When I get a chance I will take the grips off and take a photo of the backs and post it here
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 20, 2010, 11:02:15 AM
I've got plans worked up for building a small CNC router for home use, and have most of the parts.  I need a reason to actually build it.  :)

Wow! Does this mean we can buy same quality grips from you (at lesser prices) when you build your router and get the G-Code?  :D

Well, theoretically...but mine won't be up to production runs.  They'd be one offs. 

I'm not even certain that I'd be able to do both grip panels at once...my platform is very small, since I designed it to make wooden clock parts.  However, despite its small size, mine is going to be nice and accurate.  I'm using cast iron x-y vices for the framework, with dovetailed ways.  Small, but very solidly built.  I haven't found an affordable spindle, yet, though I've not been looking very hard...project's been on the back burner for a while.

I've been itching to finish this project, and this might give me the push I need to actually do it.

So, *does* anyone have access to the g-code?  A quick google search turned up a number of gun related code snippets, and even someone who milled an entire 1911 from scratch, but nothing for the CZ82 grips.  But, like I said, it was a *quick* search.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 20, 2010, 11:11:30 AM
CK I have no idea why you think CZ's are addictive and you should even think you need to run while you had the chance ???I only have about a Doz just ordered 6? I think more plus 1 CZ 550 UCS .308 and a BRNO VZ .338 Magnum. I don't see how that would be construed as an addiction?  ::)

Abandon hope, all ye who enter.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 20, 2010, 11:31:23 AM
So, *does* anyone have access to the g-code?  A quick google search turned up a number of gun related code snippets,
and even someone who milled an entire 1911 from scratch, but nothing for the CZ82 grips.  But, like I said, it was a
*quick* search.

I could probably help do a google search, if I knew what to look for!  ;D
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 20, 2010, 01:46:32 PM
I could probably help do a google search, if I knew what to look for!  ;D

G-Code is a series of numerical instructions, stored in a text file, which when run through an interpreter causes the CNC router to move and cut the shape.

The code below cuts a circle, a diamond, and a square...these code snippets, like all other code, can be used to generate all sorts of shapes, etc.  A grip is just a more complicated set of instructions, but it's the same basic stuff.

%
N1  O003 (DIAMOND SQUARE)
N2  G54  G90  G49 G80
N3  M6  T1 (1.ENDMILL)
N4  M3  S1800
N5  G0 X-.6  Y2.050
N6  G43  H1  Z.1
N7  G1 Z-.3 F50.
N8  G41 D1 Y1.45
N9  G1 X0 F20.
N10 G2 J-1.45
N11 G1 X.1
N12 G0 Z.1
N13 G40
N14 G0 X-1.590 Y1.590
N15 G1 Z-.2  F50.
N16 G41 D1 Y.990
N17 G1 X.990  F20.
N18 Y-.990
N19 X-.990
N20 Y1.09
N21 G0 Z.1
N22 G40
N23 G0 X-.6 Y1.590
N24 G1 Z-.1  F50.
N25 G41 D1 Y.990
N26 G1 X0  F20.
N27 X.75 Y0
N28 X0 Y-.990
N29 X-.75 Y0
N30 X0 Y.990
N31 X.1
N31 G0 Z.1
N32 G40
N33 M5 G49 G28 G91 Z0
N34 M3
%

This type of coding can be used to produce anything you want.  Here's someone cutting a 1911 frame from a solid billet.  Same type of instructions...just way more of them.
(http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16958&d=1144996693)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 20, 2010, 02:14:55 PM
I could probably help do a google search, if I knew what to look for!  ;D

G-Code is a series of numerical instructions, stored in a text file, which when run through an interpreter causes the CNC router to move and cut the shape.

Wow! This is way, way, way, above my pay grade! Hahaha!
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 20, 2010, 02:49:40 PM
I'm a geek who enjoys wood working...but I'm not very good at it.  So, obviously, as a computer geek my solution is to build a robot to do the cutting for me!  Fun, fun, fun.

That's how CNC works...computer numerical control.  Simplicity, itself, really.  It's no different than an etch-a-sketch in principle, and we *all* played with those as kids, right?

Home Built CNC Hobby Router (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm-AMQpgEOw&NR=1#)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 20, 2010, 03:37:27 PM
That's how CNC works...computer numerical control.  Simplicity, itself, really. 
It's no different than an etch-a-sketch in principle, and we *all* played with those as kids, right?

Very interesting! Where was all this when I was whittling walking sticks with my pocket knife?  ;D
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 20, 2010, 05:53:58 PM
That's how CNC works...computer numerical control.  Simplicity, itself, really. 
It's no different than an etch-a-sketch in principle, and we *all* played with those as kids, right?

Very interesting! Where was all this when I was whittling walking sticks with my pocket knife?  ;D

In common use at high end shops...the home workshop crowd has only adopted it in the last decade.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: geen on December 21, 2010, 01:47:46 PM
CK here are pics of the back of the grips

(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/geen25/100_07662.jpg)

(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/geen25/100_07712.jpg)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 21, 2010, 05:08:53 PM
CK here are pics of the back of the grips

So, there is some sculpting on the backs.  That'll make it harder to produce, since each piece will have to have both sides machined.

Oh well, it should still be relatively simple to make them, once my CNC is up and running.  Wonder if there will be any discounts on the circuit interfaces, for Christmas?
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 21, 2010, 11:10:42 PM
So, there is some sculpting on the backs.
Oh well, it should still be relatively simple
to make them, once my CNC is up and running. 

For someone like me who used to make/modify semi-auto grips
by hand (with the aid of stencils, coping saw and sandpaper), this
"relatively simple" CNC process makes me green with envy!!!  :(
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 22, 2010, 12:12:36 AM
For someone like me who used to make/modify semi-auto grips by hand (with the aid of stencils, coping saw and sandpaper), this "relatively simple" CNC process makes me green with envy!!!  :(
Build a CNC unit yourself, then...if you can make grips with a coping saw and stencils, then you're obviously handy.  Far handier than me.  A home workshop CNC is what happens, when a computer geek enjoys woodworking...he ends up building a robot to do it!

The machine I linked to, above, is made from some surplus rails bought on eBay (though black gas pipe can be substituted), some Roller Blade bearings, and the frame of the machine is built from MDF.  The spindle is a mounted laminate router, and the only particularly difficult part is the circuit interface which is available as an affordable kit.

Drive screws can be as "inaccurate" as allthread, but a better grade is always preferred.  The drive nuts are tapped plastic.  The motors are surplussed from old HP LASER printers.

An alternative construction method is to use commercial aluminum window rails...their offcuts are the right size and shape for each axis, and just use a thick nylon cutting board for the sled.

The interpreter software is a little complicated, but several free options exist, including an open sourced program that runs under LINUX.

Pretty straight forward, really.  The rest is just programming.

*I* envy the people like you who can do this stuff by hand, with traditional tools.  Definitely a skill that I lack.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 22, 2010, 12:31:30 AM
Easy to build Desktop CNC Mill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6drMZqmyXQc#)

I think this is the simplest 3 axis machine I've ever seen.  Not much capacity, but great as a demonstration platform.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 22, 2010, 01:39:30 AM

*I* envy the people like you who can do this stuff by hand, with traditional tools.  Definitely a skill that I lack.

As they say, "Necessity is the mother of invention," and I guess I was never
satisfied with "store-bought" grips (the only way to buy stuff then, before
"somebody" "invented the internet" and online shopping was born! Hehehe!

I started with modifying grips I bought, to suit my smallish hands. Then I found
a source for hardwood and I bought "cut-offs" from saw mills and carpentry shops.
I also looked for neighborhood woodworkers (a vanishing breed, if they haven't
yet disappeared altogether). And I would observe them for hours on end, as
I marvel at the fact that to them, time is inconsequential, deadlines are
non-existent and mass production is very much abhorred and detested.
They work at their own pace and produce works of art, from furniture
pieces to rifle stocks, in their own good time.:)

When I was starting out, the most intimidating thing about making grips was
doing the checkering...until I say a boy of 11 do it with just a wee wood file
and wet rag. Geez! Woodworkers belong to generations of craftsmen, and
they train their young to someday take over. I was fortunate to be allowed
to watch from the sidelines and learn without tuition fees (aside from the
box of doughnuts or whatnots that I would bring to them from time to time).
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: tommypotatoes on December 23, 2010, 07:31:40 AM
Well, ck... If your steppers have encoders on them, couldn't you use a pair of grips as models and manually move the stages while tracing the pattern of the grip, and then capture the output positioning data? Punch that back into a text file and generate your own duplicate pattern? Maybe start with the stock grips to see if it's doable, first... It should get you into a mode where you could tweak the code a bit to get the effect you're looking for.  Then, cut the raw outline first, from flat stock, and do the back side routing. Flip the piece and do the top side after that... Just a thought, while drinking a cup of coffee.....
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Stringfellow on December 23, 2010, 12:05:40 PM
There is a lot of excess material in an '82 grip.  From my measurements, you could cut down the thickness of an '82 to 1.04" if you thinned the grips.  In other words, you could take off at least a 1/4" off the grips.  But I don't know if this is possible structurally with plastic.  I have a pair of thin wood grips coming any day now, but I don't know how thin or durable they will be.

If you could get a CNC machine up and going to produce thin grips out of metal, I suspect there would be a decent demand for them...
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 23, 2010, 02:33:29 PM
Steppers don't have encoders...those are servos.  But, with a probe tip and a momentary switch I should be able to sample enough points to generate the shape.  It'd take forever, though, and require more than a bit of coding...not many interpreter programs have that functionality built in.

Good thought!

First things first.  Got to get my gun...and build my CNC machine...and...and...and...  ;)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: tommypotatoes on December 24, 2010, 09:35:13 AM
stick quadrature encoders on the ends of the drive shafts... trace and record, maybe... or 3D laser modeling and reverse engineering... time or money are always the choices...
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 27, 2010, 03:57:40 PM
In the next few days I'll take possession of a CZ-82, and it will be my very first gun.  

CK, do you have your CZ-82 yet?  ;D
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Stringfellow on December 27, 2010, 05:41:47 PM
Yes CK--fill us in!  We are all crossing our fingers for you, hoping you are as happy with yours as we are with ours...
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 28, 2010, 07:32:53 PM
Got it today, and he was right, the finish is quite worn but in a holster/use sort of way.  It does not look abused.  The gun is tight and crisp and generally nice...consistent with what has been described on this forum.

It'll pay a visit to a gunsmith friend of mine, tomorrow, to be checked out properly.  I'm cautiously optimistic.  Since this is my first gun, I'm unsure of my own judgment in this matter.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 28, 2010, 10:04:38 PM
ALLWAYS, allways let a good gunsmith check any weapon you pick up from anywhere except a brand spanking new one at the store of your choice, Even then you may need the gun smith to really clean it properly, because depending on just what you buy it may have enough grease in it, on it, and through it to completly redo the underside of a 56 Ford.
I'm not sure if he's a *good* gunsmith or not, but he works for a gun manufacturer as a machinist, and gunsmiths on the side.  Sounds reasonable to me...and if he approves, it'll be stripped and blued as a Christmas gift.  Gotta' start somewhere, right?  I'm *completely* green when it comes to this stuff.

As to grease, there is definitely a visible film of grease/oil on some of the sliding parts.  Haven't stripped it down, yet.  Heck, it hasn't made it into the house, yet!

So, who makes a good holster for this thing?  It didn't come with one.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 28, 2010, 10:20:26 PM
So, who makes a good holster for this thing?  It didn't come with one.

Do you have to ask? Really?  ;D
He just ran a raffle you and I both joined!  :D
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 28, 2010, 10:25:15 PM
So, who makes a good holster for this thing?  It didn't come with one.

Do you have to ask? Really?  ;D
He just ran a raffle you and I both joined!  :D
.

Uh-oh! My bad. I didn't read until now (in that holster giveaway thread)
that he's not taking orders until Spring.  Sorry, CK!  :(
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 28, 2010, 10:46:15 PM
Do you have to ask? Really?  ;D
He just ran a raffle you and I both joined!  :D

I asked for a good holster, not art.  His holsters are magnificent, way too good for this gun in its current state.  Though calling it apocalyptic would be appropriate.  :)

I know CZ-USA sells a cheap leather shoulder holster for it, but they're closed for new year's inventory.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 28, 2010, 11:12:09 PM
I know CZ-USA sells a cheap leather shoulder holster for it, but they're closed for new year's inventory.

I saw some cheap leather shoulder and side-carry holsters on eBay.
That military flapped holster shown with my new CZ-82 photo (somewhere
above) only cost $7.95 + $2.95 shipping.
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 29, 2010, 01:45:31 AM
Well, a merchant marine friend just took a quick look at it, and likes the CZ82.  Thinks it's a great gun.  But he also showed me some noticeable wear on mine...some looseness and wear on the slide and the barrel which might warrant an exchange.

A thorough cleaning is definitely in order...and then we'll see how it does.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 29, 2010, 02:08:49 AM
  some noticeable wear on mine...some looseness and wear on the slide
and the barrel which might warrant an exchange. A thorough cleaning is
definitely in order...and then we'll see how it does.

Take it to that "gunsmith-on-the-side" so you can get a "second opinion." :)
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 29, 2010, 09:50:49 AM
The -82/83 is a fixed-barrel firearm and slide "looseness" will have no effect on operation or accuracy, unlike the 1911s and such that depend on barrel "lockup" for accuracy. The -82's loose slide contributes to its reliability. Slight wear on the barrel from the sping is pretty normal for a heavily used -82.

My -82 has some wear on the barrel, so I apply a light film of grease to it and fire away.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 29, 2010, 10:52:26 AM
The -82/83 is a fixed-barrel firearm and slide "looseness" will have no effect on operation or accuracy, unlike the 1911s and such that depend on barrel "lockup" for accuracy. The -82's loose slide contributes to its reliability. Slight wear on the barrel from the spring is pretty normal for a heavily used -82.

Good information...good to know.  Thank you.  This makes me feel much better about my first purchase.  My barrel has a little groove 1/3 of the way down from the chamber, presumably from field stripping it.  There is also a large scratch on the feed ramp...I'm guessing that can be polished out.

Jeez.  I keep using the word first when I refer to this gun.  First gun.  First purchase.  Hmmm...I wonder how many I will have, by the end of it all?  :)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 29, 2010, 04:07:34 PM
Chances are the scratched ramp won't cause any problems, but it can be polished out if needed. Some ball ammo (FMJ) will most likely smooth it out and will be more fun than applying elbow grease.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 29, 2010, 04:38:59 PM
Some ball ammo (FMJ) will most likely smooth it out and will be more fun than applying elbow grease.

I agree. That's how we "polished" our issue rifles and sidearms, back in the day.  :)
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 29, 2010, 11:30:34 PM
Saw my "gunsmith" today, and he is suitably impressed.  Nice gun, in good shape, that he would be happy to carry himself...he has been buying/flipping guns for a year, trying to find "the one."  He even likes the feel of the grips, as do I, which is weird since my hands are 2/3 the size of his.  It needs cleaning, severely, and he wants to replace the springs.  He didn't think the finish was awful at all, though it does show wear, and he thinks that a strip and blue would make for a sweet gun.

He mic-ed various parts and was very impressed, the slide is within .002 of exact, and it is one of the most consistent he's ever seen.  There were some machining marks, but nothing that bothered him significantly.  His day job is machining parts for arms, so he definitely knows what parts need to be accurate, and just how accurate they should be.

The final statement he made was that, if I want to get rid of it in the future, he wants first dibs.  That made me feel good.

I'm much happier, now.

Next step is to find some ammo, and some place to shoot.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 29, 2010, 11:50:07 PM
The final statement he made was that, if I want to get rid of it in the future, he wants first dibs.  That made me feel good.

I'm much happier, now.

Next step is to find some ammo, and some place to shoot.

If, as they say, no one forgets his first love, I'd bet you
will never get over your first gun either!

But your daydreaming days are now over and indeed,
now you have to go out and shoot, shoot, and shoot
some more!

Then tell us how the web of your shooting hand feels
like after 100 rounds, fired in one session. :)
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 29, 2010, 11:52:14 PM
Oh, I forgot one detail.  He said the strike of the hammer didn't feel quite crisp enough...it was more of a dull thud.  

What is it supposed to feel like?  

He wasn't intimately familiar with this particular gun, and suggested I ask someone who actually owns one...perhaps on this forum.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Stringfellow on December 30, 2010, 12:09:33 AM
My '82 was my first pistol too.  And it was in about the same condition as yours.  A bottle of Oxpho Blue is only ~$10 from Brownell's.  This was my first try at stripping and rebluing it.  In other words, as long as it shoots good, it won't take much effort to get it all dolled up if you so choose.

(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy117/Mr_Stringfellow_Hawke/Refinished%20CZ82/DSC_0009.jpg)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 30, 2010, 12:38:42 AM
  This was my first try at stripping and rebluing it. 

Not bad for a first time blue job! In fact, it's excellent!  :)
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 30, 2010, 12:50:57 AM
^^
+1
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: eric0424 on December 30, 2010, 01:07:48 AM
The 83/83 pistols have a hammer and sprig setup a little different than what I'm accustomed to. Normally when a hammer falls is rest on the slide and/or firing pin after it hits the firing pin, but these pistols actually pull back from the slide after hitting the firing pin about 1/8".  This may be similar to the re-bounding hammer I've read about on different brand of rifle recently, but the 82 does sound a little muffled compared to my other pistols.  It shoots just fine though.  The reason the hammer moves back from the slide is so the automatic safety (#21) can block the hammer until the trigger is pulled.  All of this will make a little more sense when you get the pistol and can see how these parts interact with each other.

I wouldn't worry about it until you see how it shoots, or you could ask him to fire a few rounds through it for you.

Cabela's and Midway have Fiocchi and Sellier & Bellott in stock, Midway also has some Bear, Buffalo Bore and a few others to choose from if you want to order online.

Stringfellow, excellent work with the Oxpho Blue, I've been using it and Van's Instant Gun Blue on my TZ75 and a Marlin lever action rifle for a while now.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on December 30, 2010, 01:23:00 AM
Normally when a hammer falls is rest on the slide and/or firing pin after it hits the firing pin,
but these pistols actually pull back from the slide after hitting the firing pin about 1/8".  

An excellent explanation of how the hammer works on these guns.

When I first got my -82, my son commented that the hammer
doesn't seem to be hitting the firing pin as it looks like it "stops
short." I told him the hammer strikes the pin but moves back
after (though I could not explain it as clearly as you did). He still
seemed not to be convinced. So I tore off a strip of white paper,
put it between the hammer and the firing pin and pulled the trigger.
I then pulled out the strip and showed him the circular grease
mark (corresponding to the firing pin diameter) to prove that the
hammer had indeed impacted on the pin.  ;D
.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 30, 2010, 09:13:45 AM
Yep, the hammer on the -82 is a bit different. I thought something was wrong after I reassembled it. I did the paper test too and the next trip to the range confirmed it was okay.

If you hold the trigger back, you should be able to push the hammer forward against the firing pin.

A replacement recoil spring from Wolffs will include a hammer spring, the only two that get real wear.

What you need to do is pick up a box or two of Finochi or S&B ammo and put your concerns to rest. Patience, Grasshopper, all will be well!
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 30, 2010, 10:25:43 AM
Namaste
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: eric0424 on December 30, 2010, 03:53:58 PM
The recoil springs and calibration packs from Wolff come with extra power firing pin springs, you get 3 XP firing pin springs with the calibration packs.  Wolff doesn't make hammer or magazine springs for the CZ82/83 series pistols, at least not yet.  I e-mailed them a couple of months ago and they said these two springs are on their list to be considered for production.  Until Wolff starts production we can get factory hammer springs from CZ USA and maybe call to see if magazine springs are available too.

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/CZ/82%20%26%2083/cID1/mID16/dID92 (http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/CZ/82%20%26%2083/cID1/mID16/dID92)

It may be possible to buy the CZ75B hammer springs from Wolff and cut about .764" off them so they fit the 82/83 but I haven't tried that yet.  The dimensions below are a comparison between used factory 75B and 82 hammer springs.

CZ82: lenght - 1.708", spring OD 0.257", spring ID 0.157", wire dia. 0.050

CZ75: length - 2.472", spring OD 0.250", spring ID 0.157", wire dia. 0.045

When CZ USA gets back up I'll check their extractor spring, I think the factory spring fits both the 75/85 and 82/83 pistols.  If so the Wolff extra power extractor spring for the 75/85 pistols will also fit the 82/83 pistols.  I'll try to confirm this when CZ USA is online again.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: SMSgt on December 30, 2010, 06:33:14 PM
My mistake, monster typo. I meant firing pin spring. Thanks. (Duh!)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on December 31, 2010, 02:28:43 PM
I've discovered that the "local" Academy Sports actually sells 9mm Makarov ammo.  Guess where I'm giong, next time I go to town.  CheaperThanDirt also carries it, but they're over 50 miles away.

:)

And so it begins.
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: ck on January 04, 2011, 02:11:01 PM
And, the long awaited pictures...as you can see, the finish is rough, but the gun looks just fine.  Going shopping for ammo, today.  :)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5324076843_db9d7ee80c.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5324683792_09662daa55.jpg)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Hayfield123 on January 04, 2011, 03:48:27 PM
This was an interesting string to read . . . and reconfirms to me that asking (Mrs.) Santa for a CZ 82 and (son of) Santa for a set of wood grips were the right things to do!  I really love this pistol!
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: eric0424 on January 04, 2011, 11:02:53 PM
Going shopping for ammo, today.  :)


You mean you didn't already have 200 rounds of Makarov waiting for the gun to arrive.  :D 

By the time my 82 actually got here I already had 200 rounds of Fiocchi, a Lee Carbide Pistol Die set and bullets from Hornady and Berry's waiting on it.  I still need to send Lee a Makarov dummy round and $34.50 for them to make me a Factory Crimp Die.  Of course I knew I was buying it for four months.  :)
Title: Re: CZ-82: Thank you SOG
Post by: Cosmij82 on January 06, 2011, 10:13:45 AM
. . . and reconfirms to me that asking (Mrs.) Santa for a CZ 82 and (son of) Santa for a set of wood grips were the right things to do!  

How I wish that I have a couple of "Santas" in my family like you do!  ::)
.