The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: pivoproseem on April 16, 2011, 06:34:00 PM
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I haven't seen this mentioned, but there is a partial photo of one on the CZ home page at CZUB.CZ
"At the 75th anniversary of the company?s establishment ?esk? zbrojovka will in 2011 commemorate this event with a special anniversary edition of the CZ 75 pistol. These pistols will be copies of the legendary CZ 75 model designed in 1970s. The upcoming retro version of the CZ 75 pistol will not be presented only as an worldwide legend ?dust-off?, but also as a symbol of ?esk? zbrojovka successful production that has been carried throughout the entire history of the company."
Let the salivating begin....
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Wow. That's really cool. It'll mean a devaluing of my own 1979 short rail, but at least now folks who want one will have the chance.
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If only they will import them.
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wow..that is very cool..hopefully they will bring them to the states.
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I only hope that it's true and that they'll be imported. If so, I want mine to be finished in the stunning "shiny blue" finish that we love so much!
Otto
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If only they will import them.
Why wouldn't they?
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If only they will make spare magazines available for them and all the other Pre B guns, I might consider one. An assurance that an adequate parts supply will be manufactured for the older design would be a deal maker too. Without both, I don't think I'm interested.
JP
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If only they will import them.
Why wouldn't they?
Because lots of companies make stuff for their home markets and don't import them to the US.
CZ's home market is Europe. the US is a sideshow by comparison.
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It'll mean a devaluing of my own 1979 short rail...
I sincerely doubt that. This is akin to Smith&Wesson's issuance of "Classic" versions of their revolvers. There is no comparison between the original and the reproduction, neither in quality nor collector's value.
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Of course we all know that, given we have not seen an actual example, that the quality will be inferior. This is especially born out by the inferior quality of the 25th and 30th anniversary examples of the venerable CZ75.
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{sigh}
Anyone who would value a re-issue of a pistol as much as the original it seeks to emulate is the very type of person such tacky copies are made for.
If they made it in Switzerland, however... :P
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{sigh}
Anyone who would value a re-issue of a pistol as much as the original it seeks to emulate is the very type of person such tacky copies are made for.
If they made it in Switzerland, however... :P
LOL. I might buy one simply cuz there aren't too many originals around in good shape for good prices. That is, if they import them.
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I assume you have a point...somewhere.
I, for one, have no problem if folks want one. I'm not a big fan. It seems that CZ was not, either, else they would not have dropped it in favor of what they have produced over the last 30 years, or so.
Also, be careful, there are those who just recently posted who seem to be proud of their Swiss pistols. We would not want to make them feel unwelcome, would we?
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No one's getting their feelings hurt and there's nothing wrong with Swiss pistols either.
If you two would like to continue your jousting, please do so offline and not in this thread.
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Sounds good to me, Widge. I'll have my opinion, he'll have his, and ne'er the twain shall meet. :P
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Thanks.
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I would bet the new gun would be made to tighter tolerances and be as good, if not better, in construction than the original production model. I've handled a short rail gun before, felt like it was put together just like any other pre-B...
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This thread caught my attention because I would like a short rail version. But I went on the UB website and didn't find anything about this. Anyone post a link for me or post a picture?
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This thread caught my attention because I would like a short rail version. But I went on the UB website and didn't find anything about this. Anyone post a link for me or post a picture?
http://www.czub.cz/en/Default.aspx (http://www.czub.cz/en/Default.aspx)
Where it says 75th anniversary.
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Partial image from the site:
(http://www.czub.cz/image/bgr_hotnew.png)
From the link:
At the 75th anniversary of the company?s establishment ?esk? zbrojovka will in 2011 commemorate this event with a special anniversary edition of the CZ 75 pistol. These pistols will be copies of the legendary CZ 75 model designed in 1970s. The upcoming retro version of the CZ 75 pistol will not be presented only as an worldwide legend ?dust-off?, but also as a symbol of ?esk? zbrojovka successful production that has been carried throughout the entire history of the company.
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I'll give you 2000 bucks for an Excellent+ condition original short rail 75 and consider my lucky at that.
I'll give you 500 bucks for the re-issue. Wait, no I won't. Not interested. Wouldn't be the same, wouldn't be the same at all.
But the offer on the original stands.
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This is a very similar situation to the 'original' Sig 210 and it's various iterations, and the re-issued (or re-imagined) 210 Legend. Purists are not interested in the new one, and it's not really aimed at them anyway. It's aimed at those who could never afford a 'real' one, but like the style or cachet of being able to say they own one, even if it's not an original.
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And let's not forget- the reason the rails were lengthened was because, IIRC, the pistol was not holding up to the nice, warm 9mm ammo they have in Europe. The rails were lengthened to increase the durability of the pistol.
So, we take a good, strong CZ75 and reduce the length of the rails. Does that sound like a shooter to you? So the purpose of the reissue is...what? Just as the ad blurb says, it's a "symbol". So it's a copy of an original. Listen, it's just like Smith&Wesson- we can never go back to the former glory, the mystique of those earlier handguns. It's not a shooter, it's a half-ass "symbol". I've no doubt there are others who will snap them up. However, I'll pass, and wait for the day I don't have to compromise. If I can't have the original, I don't want one calculated from the get-go to be a "collector's item".
Again, this is simply my opinion, with which you may not agree, but that does not change my opinion.
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If they make a stainless for less than $550, I'll take one and retire my 1979. As it is, my short rail is my shooter, and I put maybe 1000 rounds a year on it. Had it for years now, and it was well fired before me - still going strong. I do wonder about the redesign to longer rails. Any pictures, documents, or postings that discuss broken guns with high P ammo? I've shot boxes of police +P+ ammo through mine, no problems other than notable stronger recoil.
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Any pictures, documents, or postings that discuss broken guns with high P ammo?
I'd be interested in some specifics as well, but IIRC, the pistols weren't breaking so much as they were shooting loose after a time.
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There were precious few purchasers of the short-rail pistols. The Czech's didn't use them, nor did the Comblock or NATO. The bulk of these went to Africa, particularly Rhodesia and later South Africa. Demand for them did not actually increase until after the redesign.
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There were precious few purchasers of the short-rail pistols. The Czech's didn't use them, nor did the Comblock or NATO. The bulk of these went to Africa, particularly Rhodesia and later South Africa. Demand for them did not actually increase until after the redesign.
I wonder why the demand went up?
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If I had to guess about the demand is because people like me want one for historical reasons but can't find one. And if I could I couldn't afford one. I got a shadow but have been itching to get a police trade in with the spur hammer and original trigger guard. I just like the old style for nostalgic reasons. I sure hope these find their way to America. I'd surly buy one.
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The demand went up relatively recently. They have always been expensive, but there was a time not long ago when they were half what some would pay for them today. Perceived scarcity coupled with a growing respect for CZ products in general are the cause. There are rarer 75's out there, but the short-rail is the best known of the rare pistols. There are those who also prefer its unique lines.
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Any pictures, documents, or postings that discuss broken guns with high P ammo?
I recall reading that early (earliest?) CZ 75s had frames cast in Spain and those were subject to cracking.
Parabellum is probably correct regarding the later Czechoslovak cast short frames shooting loose vs. actually breaking.
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Any pictures, documents, or postings that discuss broken guns with high P ammo?
I recall reading that early (earliest?) CZ 75s had frames cast in Spain and those were subject to cracking.
Funny you should mention that. In a Guns&Ammo Annual from a few years back, Gene Gangarosa, in writing about Star pistols, mentioned that there were some "prototype" CZ75 frames made in Spain. Since the article refers to Star's 28/30/31 series of pistols, which use the reverse slide/frame relationship of the CZ75, I was under the impression these "prototype" CZ75 frames were somehow related to the design of the Star 28 Series of pistols.
Mister Gangarosa's single sentence in that article is the only place I've seen this mentioned.
I'll tell you who could shed some light on that, is Leo Antaris, who wrote the definitive books on Star firearms. I happen to have a copy of this superb work and I will take a look at it this evening.
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Please do parabellum as it would be very interesting to know what the 'real deal' was.
Unfortunately, as this was quite a number of years ago I do not recall who the reference was regarding the Spanish cast frames.
I'll see if I can find it in my somewhere in my archives (i.e. the room where everything gets lost).
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The M28 does not have much in common with the CZ-75 beyond the interior rails, which was done by the SIG 210 before either pistol was on the drawing board. It was designed for trials in the US and then used by the Spanish military, as well as the updated M30. In any case, the M28, according to Stephen Camp, is forged and so would have had nothing to do with castings made for CZ.
There has been talk of inferior frames being cast in Spain in the early 1980's, but these frames were long and not short. As to how to distinguish them, there seems no good information. Also, the quality of the castings may have caused pistol problems, or simply may have been off spec, requiring extra manufacturing.
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OK, here's the excerpt I mentioned earlier:
"Around 1978 Echeverria adopted another foreign influence, the Czech CZ 75 pistol. In the mid-1970s Echeverria made some CZ 75 frames in Spain under Ceska Zbojovka contract. The company liked the CZ 75 and modified the design to suit local preferences, a common theme in Spanish handgun manufacture." - A Brief History of Spanish Automatic Pistols by Gene Gangarosa Jr., as published in the Guns&Ammo Handguns 2004 Annual, pg. 77
"Echeverria" refers, of course, to Star. I find no mention of this in Gangarosa's book Spanish Handguns - The History of Spanish Pistols & Revolvers, published in 2001.
I'll take a look in Antaris' book on Star firearms, but I do not recall this tidbit of information in it, although it would be easy to overlook a fact or two in his book. It's a monster, full of information.
In the meantime, I nominate the Star Model 30 to be the Best Empty Pistol to use as a Bludgeon. The thing's a tank. ;D
Three of mine. Right to Left- Star Model 28, Model 30, and Model 31PK
(http://sigforum.com/movedimages/para/stars.jpg)
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There is a short blurb about the Spanish made frame in the cz75 book by Pazdera that Cz released..
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Thanks parabellum, nice Star pistols there.
Although Star borrowed from the CZ design, they had a few clever ideas of their own as I recall (noting the lack of screws as one of them).
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There is a short blurb about the Spanish made frame in the cz75 book by Pazdera that Cz released..
Do you have access to that book, and can you post what the book says?
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short version- in 1980 started to use frames cast by ALFA, S.A. of Eibar, Spain, a sewing machine parts maker. It was expensive for CZ and QC problems and late deliveries from them slowed down production at CZ. CZ started to make thier own investment cast parts in 82-83
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Outstanding. Thank you!
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Yeeeeee!
This is outstanding! A new short-rail so I don't have to worry about my '78 eventually breaking or wearing out (though I have a healthy supply of spare parts for it). Sure, it may be a "halo product", but so what? All of the looks of the old beauty, but with new-school metallurgy and machining, along with a factory warranty, makes this a no-brainer for me. I just hope it uses new mags (which it no doubt will), and that it uses the original "CZ in a circle" logo, since the UB logo would look really out of place.
Man, this is awesome. I guess I know what to do with that Vltor Bren Ten money now. There was that P-210 Legend I was eyeballing, as well as a potential search for a WMK-marked Colt 01911, but this would take priority, no doubt.
If it does make it to the US, and it most likely will if it does indeed make it into production given CZ's recent record of bringing over a majority of its goodies to US shores, then this is certainly a good show of faith on CZ's part towards it's biggest fans, since this kind of thing will only appeal to the most avid old school CZ fan. What an awesome company that knows how to treat its fans, I say.
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I guess I know what to do with that Vltor Bren Ten money now.
I take it by this comment that the Bren Ten remake never made it to the market? I guess that explains why I've never seen one.
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I guess I know what to do with that Vltor Bren Ten money now.
I take it by this comment that the Bren Ten remake never made it to the market? I guess that explains why I've never seen one.
Me either. That's another repro I'd be interested in.
From Vltor's blog (3/31/11):
We would like to inform our customers, industry partners and friends that Sporting Products of West Palm Beach, FL is no longer handling the distribution or sales of the Vltor Bren Ten pistol ? this news came to us recently from Sporting Products and we are unable to make any further comments regarding the dissolution.
We do want to let everyone know that we are bringing the full management and oversight of the Vltor Bren Ten back under our roof; effective immediately the design, manufacture, marketing and distribution of the Bren Ten will be solely and squarely on Vltor Weapon Systems and Abrams Airborne Manufacturing. We hope that this repositioning will allow us to not only oversee this project from start to finish, but that it will also put us in direct contact with the retailers and customers. In the next few weeks, we will reestablish our presence on the Internet and open the forum to provide updated and candid information about the Bren Ten pistol.
We do want to say that beyond our initial discussions to use Sporting Products as the sole distributor of the Bren Ten, we have not committed to any pre-orders or sales agreements, nor have we received any down payment for any of the Bren Ten pistols. If you believe that you have a purchase agreement of any type for the Bren Ten, you should contact Sporting Products directly with your concerns.
Again, we hope to make the best of this event and get the Vltor Bren Ten to the shooting market as soon as possible.
Link (http://vltor.wordpress.com/)
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Perhaps they should have partnered with that Italian firm that everyone, the Swiss, Czechs, Turks, and Israelis, have partnered with to make their versions of the CZ-75.
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Yeah, I was really looking forward to the new Bren, but Vltor has been jerking its customers around for years now. Its really hard to justify giving them money when they've been so lame for so long. I'd much rather give my money to a company that deserves it, like CZ. The latest spiel on Vltor's blog is the same "coming soon" rhetoric they've been feeding us for 3 years now.
You know, I would have loved CZ to make a Bren Ten. It would have been done right. Maybe some day they'll make a 10mm CZ and cut into the clone market share a bit more, not that they're all that worried about it. Maybe Dan Wesson could have taken a crack at it.
Ah well. I can spend the Bren money on a new short-rail, plenty of mags, and lotsa ammo. Not a bad dust up.
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Sounds like the Gun Gods don't want the Bren Ten to live. First, the mag issue with Dornaus&Dixon that killed the original, then Peregrine Industries was going to resurrect the pistol in the early 1990s but never got off the ground, and now this.
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The Bren Ten has lived quite nicely for more than a decade. The 10mm Witness is everything the Bren Ten was supposed to be - a CZ-75 based pistol in 10mm Auto (or 10mm Norma). Cosmetically they are different, but it is what Jeff Cooper was going for, and has been a successful pistol with thousands produced.
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Southern Forester, do you intend to take issue with everything I say, simply because you and I disagreed on something previously? Do you think, perhaps, you might display a bit of maturity and get past it, rather than nitpicking my statements? Seriously, get past it, huh?
The admin has already asked for you and I to go to opposite corners and I have done my best to ignore your subtle snipes, but you just keep at it, so really, man, grow up a bit, huh? Suck it up. Someone disagrees with you on some things. Do you think you can handle that?
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While some people consider the Bren 10 a CZ clone, it's a bit of a stretch to call it and the Witness the same thing. The differences in appearance are pretty substantial. The only thing they actually have in common is the cartridge and a similar locking action.
Witness 10mm:
(http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10mmMik/Witness.jpg)
Bren 10:
(http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/a/a7/Pistol_US_Bren_Ten_10x25mm,_aka_10mm_Auto.jpg/400px-Pistol_US_Bren_Ten_10x25mm,_aka_10mm_Auto.jpg)
Now, lets put this one back on the CZ Retro track please.
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While some people consider the Bren 10 a CZ clone, it's a bit of a stretch to call it and the Witness the same thing. The differences in appearance are pretty substantial. The only thing they actually have in common is the cartridge and a similar locking action.
Witness 10mm:
(http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10mmMik/Witness.jpg)
Bren 10:
(http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/a/a7/Pistol_US_Bren_Ten_10x25mm,_aka_10mm_Auto.jpg/400px-Pistol_US_Bren_Ten_10x25mm,_aka_10mm_Auto.jpg)
Now, lets put this one back on the CZ Retro track please.
Thanks for this. It gives thought and pause to a question that frequently arises about short rail CZ's.
Which is: why the change to long rails in 1980? I've heard a few theories, the most common being strength. Yet, the Bren 10, fireing the most powerfull auto round out there (obscure cartridges aside), is a short rail. I find that very interesting.
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While some people consider the Bren 10 a CZ clone, it's a bit of a stretch to call it and the Witness the same thing.
Yeah, I'd say calling a bit of a stretch is being kind. Widge, can you keep this child off of me? Is his mom around, maybe? She needs to watch him a bit more closely. The adults are trying to have a converstaion here.
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(http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/1/1/1195b-i_am_monitoring_this_thread.jpg)
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'preciate it. ;D
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Good thing you all aren't in my back seat.
The car would have been pulled over long ago. ::)
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What on earth?????? What in the heck did I say? Good grief, talk about thin skin, I made no negative comment at all!
"The Bren Ten has lived quite nicely for more than a decade. The 10mm Witness is everything the Bren Ten was supposed to be - a CZ-75 based pistol in 10mm Auto (or 10mm Norma). Cosmetically they are different, but it is what Jeff Cooper was going for, and has been a successful pistol with thousands produced."
Where in this world can anyone possibly divine any attack in that statement? Where?
As to the Bren Ten versus the Witness, the reality is that Jeff Cooper A) had a deep respect for the CZ-75 platform and B) had a deep respect for the 10mm Norma Auto. The Bren Ten was his vision of merging the two. It failed because of production issues, no matter what Crockett carried in Miami Vice.
The 10mm Witness is cosmetically different from the Bren Ten, of course. But, other than machining, the differences are mild. The trigger mechanism is the same, as is the safety. The extractor and firing pin block are different. However, it very clearly, very definitely, fulfills Cooper's dream of a CZ-based 10mm. Arguing cosmetics makes no difference.
As to short rail versus long rail, there aren't enough Bren Tens to know if the shorter rails would have been an issue. They are not generally an issue, but CZ - and virtually every other metallic-framed locked-breach manufacturer, seem to feel longer rails are better.
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What you are doing is nit-picking over things that bear no relevance to the original thread and specifically spitting hairs over statements made by another member who you have disagreed with in the past.
This thread is about CZ 75 short rail pistols, not whether you believe Col. Cooper meant the Witness 10mm when he wrote his book, or even if you believe the 10mm witness and the Bren 10 are twins separated at birth.
If this doesn't stop happening every time you and Parabellum post in the same thread, there will be consequences for the instigator.
No more.
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What you are doing is nit-picking over things that bear no relevance to the original thread and specifically spitting hairs over statements made by another member who you have disagreed with in the past.
Indeed. Succintly stated, and accurate, and I can assure you, Widge, if he does it again, I'll refrain from giving him the attention he's begging for, and instead, I'll either use the report-this-post feature available here, or perhaps just email you directly.
And with that, I, too, consider the matter closed.
Now, where were we?
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Now wait a minute, Widge, I've been here a long, long time and never have been a troll. These recent comments were never, ever attacking anyone. The original comments about the Bren Ten were not even brought up by me. You want me to leave CZ-Forum after all my contributions, fine. I will. This is a gang-up on something that I have not even done. READ MY POST that you have a problem with. READ IT. THERE IS NOTHING IN THERE THAT IS BAD OR WRONG and yet you have a problem with it! This is absurd. Utterly absurd. And now it seems Para is hiding behind you screaming "yeah, yeah" and yet I have done nothing wrong. NOTHING WRONG. NOTHING AT ALL WRONG!
Read everything in this thread I have posted. Read it all. And when you have finished, you point out where I was uncivil or in any way acting out of line. I have performed no ad homenim attacks. I have acted with courtesy and politeness. So, what is up with this? You gonna run me off a politely-stated opinion? More importantly, you're going to back Para up after personal attacks?
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Here are my posts. Compare them to others.
"Of course we all know that, given we have not seen an actual example, that the quality will be inferior. This is especially born out by the inferior quality of the 25th and 30th anniversary examples of the venerable CZ75."
"I assume you have a point...somewhere.
I, for one, have no problem if folks want one. I'm not a big fan. It seems that CZ was not, either, else they would not have dropped it in favor of what they have produced over the last 30 years, or so.
Also, be careful, there are those who just recently posted who seem to be proud of their Swiss pistols. We would not want to make them feel unwelcome, would we?"
Widge, you thought there was a problem there, so things changed direction.
"There were precious few purchasers of the short-rail pistols. The Czech's didn't use them, nor did the Comblock or NATO. The bulk of these went to Africa, particularly Rhodesia and later South Africa. Demand for them did not actually increase until after the redesign."
"The demand went up relatively recently. They have always been expensive, but there was a time not long ago when they were half what some would pay for them today. Perceived scarcity coupled with a growing respect for CZ products in general are the cause. There are rarer 75's out there, but the short-rail is the best known of the rare pistols. There are those who also prefer its unique lines."
"The M28 does not have much in common with the CZ-75 beyond the interior rails, which was done by the SIG 210 before either pistol was on the drawing board. It was designed for trials in the US and then used by the Spanish military, as well as the updated M30. In any case, the M28, according to Stephen Camp, is forged and so would have had nothing to do with castings made for CZ.
There has been talk of inferior frames being cast in Spain in the early 1980's, but these frames were long and not short. As to how to distinguish them, there seems no good information. Also, the quality of the castings may have caused pistol problems, or simply may have been off spec, requiring extra manufacturing."
"Perhaps they should have partnered with that Italian firm that everyone, the Swiss, Czechs, Turks, and Israelis, have partnered with to make their versions of the CZ-75."
And this, evidently, is the really, really bad post:
T"he Bren Ten has lived quite nicely for more than a decade. The 10mm Witness is everything the Bren Ten was supposed to be - a CZ-75 based pistol in 10mm Auto (or 10mm Norma). Cosmetically they are different, but it is what Jeff Cooper was going for, and has been a successful pistol with thousands produced."
"What on earth?Huh??? What in the heck did I say? Good grief, talk about thin skin, I made no negative comment at all!
"The Bren Ten has lived quite nicely for more than a decade. The 10mm Witness is everything the Bren Ten was supposed to be - a CZ-75 based pistol in 10mm Auto (or 10mm Norma). Cosmetically they are different, but it is what Jeff Cooper was going for, and has been a successful pistol with thousands produced."
Where in this world can anyone possibly divine any attack in that statement? Where?
As to the Bren Ten versus the Witness, the reality is that Jeff Cooper A) had a deep respect for the CZ-75 platform and B) had a deep respect for the 10mm Norma Auto. The Bren Ten was his vision of merging the two. It failed because of production issues, no matter what Crockett carried in Miami Vice.
The 10mm Witness is cosmetically different from the Bren Ten, of course. But, other than machining, the differences are mild. The trigger mechanism is the same, as is the safety. The extractor and firing pin block are different. However, it very clearly, very definitely, fulfills Cooper's dream of a CZ-based 10mm. Arguing cosmetics makes no difference.
As to short rail versus long rail, there aren't enough Bren Tens to know if the shorter rails would have been an issue. They are not generally an issue, but CZ - and virtually every other metallic-framed locked-breach manufacturer, seem to feel longer rails are better."
Now, find in there, especially after you had a problem with what I said earlier (you seem fine with Para's actions). Read in my comments and show me where I was rude or improper. Widge, you said "What you are doing is nit-picking over things that bear no relevance to the original thread and specifically spitting hairs over statements made by another member who you have disagreed with in the past." Okay, fine, you quote where I nit-picked. Show me.
However, a snide remark was made by Para, and you joined in.
"{sigh}
Anyone who would value a re-issue of a pistol as much as the original it seeks to emulate is the very type of person such tacky copies are made for.
If they made it in Switzerland, however... Tongue"
You replied:
"LOL. I might buy one simply cuz there aren't too many originals around in good shape for good prices. That is, if they import them."
So, Para can make a rude remark and your response is to laugh?
So he doesn't like when I make a comment about a pistol and says
"The admin has already asked for you and I to go to opposite corners and I have done my best to ignore your subtle snipes, but you just keep at it, so really, man, grow up a bit, huh? Suck it up. Someone disagrees with you on some things. Do you think you can handle that?"
Then he has the gall to say:
"Yeah, I'd say calling a bit of a stretch is being kind. Widge, can you keep this child off of me? Is his mom around, maybe? She needs to watch him a bit more closely. The adults are trying to have a converstaion here."
And you back him up? You support him in his attacks? You defend him and accuse me of instigation? It is not right behavior and you know it. Para is trolling, making personal attacks. I am not.
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Whoa guys. I don't know what the history is between you two, but whatever it may be it should be settled as gentlemen outside of the public eye. No need to turn the forum into a hostile field when you can take the high road. We all know this is not how things get settled, anyways.
Back on the subject at hand, I don't suppose anyone has some sort of idea for when we may expect to see these things hit the street? Too early, I guess, but its hard to wait for something so awesome once you know its in the pipeline. I assume it'll be sometime this year...
Maybe good sales will encourage CZ to further ride the retro gravy train. Maybe an early 85 Combat? Those are always cool.
At the very least, maybe it's possible we'll see another run of the CZ-75 Retro, maybe this time without the firing pin block proper. Sorta like the Colt Series 70 reproductions.
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Is the lack of firing pin block a importation issue? SP01 Shadows don't have them. I'm like CM Rich though. I want these to become available so I can swipe one up immediately. I passed on the CCCP after seeing all it was was a standard 75 with a spur hammer and some strange writing. I thought they were the coolest thing ever when i first saw them but some bug must have killed it for me. But the short rail 75. Really seems like a winner for me.
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This thread is done. It's a shame for the OP that it got so radically off track.