The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CLUB CZ97 => Topic started by: DenStinett on February 12, 2012, 04:02:36 AM
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With the resent growing interest in 10mm pistols, I was just curious to see other opinions
I for one would like to see CZ offer their CZ 97 in 10mm
AND, have a few choices in upper lengths
I?ll give the Witness its due, but I?d still like to see 10mm on a CZ
Thanks everyone
Shoot safe all, Den S
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While the only model that would interest me is a 6" Longslide (ala Witness Hunter), convincing CZ to make it is a tough sell. I proposed the same thing a few years ago and was told that the reason that CZ won't make it is that it isn't very internationally marketable. Even .45's aren't that big outside of the US. 9mm reigns supreme in Europe, which is CZ's biggest market.
As far as the Witness goes, I am sure that 95% of them are fantastic guns...however, I am one of those guys that if there is a problem model of any gun...I end up buying one. I have heard of too many issues with EAA's customer service to put my dollars there...especially in 10mm. For that reason alone, I wish CZ would make one.
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James:
Have a Witness in 10mm with both a Compact and a Longslide upper
Love the gun, BUT, I just think CZs are that much better
(https://i.imgur.com/2iTq6Ii.jpg)
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I, too, would love to see a 10mm CZ.
My only disagreement is your proposition of basing it on the CZ97, which, at least to me, is one bulky SOB.
I think you can actually start with the CZ-75 SP-01 Tactical, which is already available in .40S&W
I would definitely go with a longer slide, like 5.3" or something like that, to assist in getting a little more velocity out of a cartridge with that kind of potential (otherwise, you'd might as well stick with .40S&W). Keeping the accessory rail would definitely be a good thing, as well as a 15-round capacity.
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My only disagreement is your proposition of basing it on the CZ97, which, at least to me, is one bulky SOB.
I think you can actually start with the CZ-75 SP-01 Tactical, which is already available in .40S&W
Only down side to your thinking is;
The 75 Series are ?Small Frame? pistols
It?s not the width; it?s the length of the 10mm that pushes it to a ?Large Frame? model?.i.e. the two different Witness frame sizes
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It's been proposed over and over for at least ten years. I would love to see a 10mm CZ 97, even MORE I would love to see the new EVO in 10mm - that's a subgun cartridge all the way. But CZ-UB doesn't see the sales potential, and won't risk the capital to build it. Maybe someday, when they start more manufacturing in the US, they might, if there was a HUGE upswing in 10mm demand, but I somehow doubt it even then.
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Might be nice to see a CZ97 in 10mm. I seriously doubt CZ will ever build one, though.
However, there is a new alternative to the 10mm Witness, the Sarsilmaz K2, which is available in 10mm, according to the EAA Catalog. I've only seen them in .45 ACP so far. The all forged steel design is a mixture of Tanfoglio/CZ and SigArms design elements. Magazine design borrows from the ParaOrdnance pattern. Magazine Capacity in 10mm will be 18 rounds, plus one in Chamber. The .45 ACP version is on my list of wants.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/549/medium/EAA_Sarsilmaz_K2_45_RH.jpg)
Review Article: http://www.tactical-life.com/online/combat-handguns/eaa-sarsilmaz-k2-45-acp/
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Now that's interesting...
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Would there be a more perfect gun?
18 rounds, 10mm (what the .40 was supposed to be), steel.
Unfortunately it won't get the plasticos away from theirs, so CZ is probably wise not to retool for it. I am sure they are making lots of dough already.
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Would there be a more perfect gun?
18 rounds, 10mm (what the .40 was supposed to be), steel.
Yeah, since the STI Wide Body is a Highbred of steel and ploy, you really can?t say a nice 10mm STI WB with 21 rounds would be nicer (OH YES I CAN)
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Wouldnt want a 10mm but a .45 heck yes!
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Would there be a more perfect gun?
18 rounds, 10mm (what the .40 was supposed to be), steel.
Yeah, since the STI Wide Body is a Highbred of steel and ploy, you really can?t say a nice 10mm STI WB with 21 rounds would be nicer (OH YES I CAN)
Got a link? All I find is Subarus and $2800 guns you can't get.
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Got a link? All I find is Subarus and $2800 guns you can't get.
Can't find any listings, but the STI 2011 Wide Body is called the Perifect 10
I understand there are magazines available for it that will go upto 21 rounds
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Subaru making guns - THAT I want to see. ;D
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Would there be a more perfect gun?
18 rounds, 10mm (what the .40 was supposed to be), steel.
Yeah, since the STI Wide Body is a Highbred of steel and ploy, you really can?t say a nice 10mm STI WB with 21 rounds would be nicer (OH YES I CAN)
Well, if that's what you really want, start saving your $$. The EAA K2 is a lot less $$ with a lot of nice features.
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Does anybody know how much the K2 is based off the Witness? I wonder how many of Henning's parts would fit?
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Subaru making guns - THAT I want to see. ;D
Here is one. STI widebody:
http://www.foxmarketing.net/foxadmin/pics/uploads/projects/38-4.jpg
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Can't find any listings, but the STI 2011 Wide Body is called the Perifect 10
I understand there are magazines available for it that will go upto 21 rounds
Sorry to be so picky about the proof/facts thing.
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Subaru making guns - THAT I want to see. ;D
Here is a picture of an STI 2011
Or is that a 2011 STI
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/subaru/impreza-wrx-sti/2011/ns/2011_subaru_impreza-wrx-sti_prf_ns_40110_717.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.insideline.com/subaru/impreza-wrx-sti/2011/2011-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-2010-new-york-auto-show.html&usg=__wUsfeTsqYibvQDe77XzC3xlFs14=&h=478&w=717&sz=55&hl=en&start=4&zoom=1&tbnid=Vvd5lReWKg0T-M:&tbnh=93&tbnw=140&ei=aMk6T-b1LY7SiAKVwZSTDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25222011%2Bsti%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DX%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1
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Does anybody know how much the K2 is based off the Witness? I wonder how many of Henning's parts would fit?
From what I have seen of it, probably only a few small parts, if that.
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Might be nice to see a CZ97 in 10mm. I seriously doubt CZ will ever build one, though.
However, there is a new alternative to the 10mm Witness, the Sarsilmaz K2, which is available in 10mm, according to the EAA Catalog. I've only seen them in .45 ACP so far. The all forged steel design is a mixture of Tanfoglio/CZ and SigArms design elements. Magazine design borrows from the ParaOrdnance pattern. Magazine Capacity in 10mm will be 18 rounds, plus one in Chamber. The .45 ACP version is on my list of wants.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/549/medium/EAA_Sarsilmaz_K2_45_RH.jpg)
Review Article: http://www.tactical-life.com/online/combat-handguns/eaa-sarsilmaz-k2-45-acp/
Yeah.....good luck finding one or even finding the mags. I ordered a K2-45 on January 18, 2012 and still don't have it. The company I ordered it from, TSGCOM inc. (Midwest Hunter Outlet), still shows it "In Stock" but every time I called for a status they said that they could not provide me with one as the distributor who I am guessing is Elett Bros. had not released the shipping information.
I have been in communication with EAA and SAR ARM USA and no one can help. I was very fustrated to say the least so I canceled my order as I was tired of chasing the wild goose. What really pisses me off is that TSGCOM is still showing them is stock and they can't even get them. I am just going to go with the Para Ordanace P14 instead and will never do business with TSGCOM or it's affiliates or EAA. Well at least until I get over this feeling.
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Sarsilmaz, Turkish, is at the lower end of quality from Turkey. While it functions just fine, a buddy from Turkey (active range member, they have alot of rental exposure at ranges) advises against these. Canik55, Tisas are preferred Turkish handguns. I don't know how true it is, but he could not confirm if the barrels in Sarsilmaz were hammer forged. The others were.
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Sarsilmaz, Turkish, is at the lower end of quality from Turkey. While it functions just fine, a buddy from Turkey (active range member, they have alot of rental exposure at ranges) advises against these. Canik55, Tisas are preferred Turkish handguns. I don't know how true it is, but he could not confirm if the barrels in Sarsilmaz were hammer forged. The others were.
I am glad to hear this as maybe not getting was a blessing. I did see something that they were rated for somewhere around 20,000 rounds. CZ is rated for more that 30K, so waht you are saying does make sense. Even the price sounded too good to be true, 400.00 for a 15 round .45 acp.
Thanks for the post.
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There's a K2-45 up on Gunbroker now, so some distributors/dealers have them.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=273934503
Also, the President of EAA has started another Company to distribute the Sarsilmaz Pistols.
Price is more like $550 plus.
Sarsilmaz, Turkish, is at the lower end of quality from Turkey. While it functions just fine, a buddy from Turkey (active range member, they have alot of rental exposure at ranges) advises against these. Canik55, Tisas are preferred Turkish handguns. I don't know how true it is, but he could not confirm if the barrels in Sarsilmaz were hammer forged. The others were.
I'll take my chances and see for myself when I get some $$ to play with, but a VZ58 or equivalent, is higher up on my priority list, so don't hold your breath.
I also note that the Armalite AR24's, made by Sarsilmaz, have been holding up well and have few, if any, complaints.
Will the K2 take the punishment my older .45 Witness has? (18,000 rounds & .45 Super Conversion) Only time will tell. Stay tuned. It will get a workout, if and when I get my hands on one!
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I did see that one along with CCFSports had a couple. CCF Sports uses Elett Bros. who provides CCF liver inventory count and they only have 16 in stock left. At least that is what they say. As I mentioned before I ordered one from Midwest Hunter Outlet who showed "In Stock" but never got it after waiting almost 4 weeks before I canceled. I would just say don't order from Midwest who is affilitated with TSGCOM Inc. if you are not patient.
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Has anyone ever tried to install a large frame Witness upper on a CZ97B lower, it seems like it could work...
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I would have to agree with the opinion that 10mm are not that popular here in the US, kinda got phased out back in the day as it takes a larger framed person the take the recoil, hence there being a .40 in the first place, kinda like a .50 cal D.Eagle I mean it looks kool as hell but really not an everymans everyday kinda gun. anyway back to the 10mm CZ is trying, I for one would love to give this a go when they are available
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-rz-10/
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Has anyone ever tried to install a large frame Witness upper on a CZ97B lower, it seems like it could work...
The Rails may (or may not) line-up, but not sure the internals will line-up and allow the thing to fire
Would be interesting though
I would have to agree with the opinion that 10mm are not that popular here in the US, kinda got phased out back in the day as it takes a larger framed person the take the recoil, hence there being a .40 in the first place, kinda like a .50 cal D.Eagle I mean it looks kool as hell but really not an everymans everyday kinda gun. anyway back to the 10mm CZ is trying, I for one would love to give this a go when they are available
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-rz-10/
With more and more companies chambering new Guns for the 10mm
And the Ammo manufacturers offering more and more Factory rounds
I don?t think the 10mm is ?Not that popular in the US?
I think it?s making a comeback?.slow but sure
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Yes W/ multiple options please! 8)
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Might be nice to see a CZ97 in 10mm. I seriously doubt CZ will ever build one, though.
However, there is a new alternative to the 10mm Witness, the Sarsilmaz K2, which is available in 10mm, according to the EAA Catalog. I've only seen them in .45 ACP so far. The all forged steel design is a mixture of Tanfoglio/CZ and SigArms design elements. Magazine design borrows from the ParaOrdnance pattern. Magazine Capacity in 10mm will be 18 rounds, plus one in Chamber. The .45 ACP version is on my list of wants.
Umm... the Sarsilmaz K2 is basically a Tanfoglio Witness built in Turkey. They changed the frame a bit to help it look different, but the mechanisms, the barrel, and even the magazines, are identical. Still, it's a very nice gun! B)
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I'd like to see a P-07 in10mm. A CZ answer to the Glock 20.