The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => VZ-58 semi auto rifle => Topic started by: RogerCZ75Bfan on July 01, 2013, 09:44:21 PM
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Are they like AK pistols shipped into the U.S.? That is to say, no 922r compliance parts because they are a pistol?
Then if you SBR it, you are required to change out a certain # of parts to be 922r compliant?
Secondly, to add a Vz.58 folding stock, is it just a matter of drilling and tapping into the receiver? Is that not even necessary? Does it require a gunsmith to re-do the rear of the receiver like with some AK pistols?
School me on Vz.58 pistols please.
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Info can be found at http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/rifles/762-x-39-mm/sa-vz58-pistol-762/
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Info can be found at http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/rifles/762-x-39-mm/sa-vz58-pistol-762/
Thank you. :D
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Roger, why not just purchase the SBR here in a few months? just curious as to why you'd rather purchase the pistol and then convert it.
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Roger, why not just purchase the SBR here in a few months? just curious as to why you'd rather purchase the pistol and then convert it.
I'm not Roger. But he may just wanna have it in his hands to play with as a pistol for the 6+ month wait. ONCE the paperwork is taken care of, it's an easy thing to convert from pistol to rifle. Heck, he could do it himself.
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Roger, why not just purchase the SBR here in a few months? just curious as to why you'd rather purchase the pistol and then convert it.
Because SBRs WILL NOT be sold by Czechpoint. They are the only distributor of Czech imported vz.58s in the entire US. Did you know that?
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Roger, No, Czechpoint will not be selling the SBR's directly. They will be selling them to their distributor, AGS... did you even read the article on www.thebangswitch.com? The SBR's that will be sold by AGS, are Czechpoint imported CSA manufactured SBR's... same as the pistols, just with the stock attached.
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Roger, why not just purchase the SBR here in a few months? just curious as to why you'd rather purchase the pistol and then convert it.
I'm not Roger. But he may just wanna have it in his hands to play with as a pistol for the 6+ month wait. ONCE the paperwork is taken care of, it's an easy thing to convert from pistol to rifle. Heck, he could do it himself.
Good enough reason... I'm just thinking of my situation where I already have a "standard" vz.58... I can be patient and wait for the SBR. :D
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Roger, No, Czechpoint will not be selling the SBR's directly. They will be selling them to their distributor, AGS... did you even read the article on www.thebangswitch.com? The SBR's that will be sold by AGS, are Czechpoint imported CSA manufactured SBR's... same as the pistols, just with the stock attached.
are you sure about this? this is what i read on the bangswitch "The rifle is being built by CzechPoint and exclusively distributed by AGS Armament." no where did the bangswitch mention it being built by CSA. but wait got this also from the bangswitch..." CzechPoint takes a standard Vz.58 rifle and shortens everything forward of the receiver (gas system, barrel, handguards, etc.). Note: CzechPoint....not "CSA", takes a standard vz58 rifle and shortens them.....
i thought its illegal to import anykind of SBRs for commercial sales, correct me if im wrong jap, your knowledge and close ties to these companies should give you all the correct info....right?
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Roger, No, Czechpoint will not be selling the SBR's directly. They will be selling them to their distributor, AGS... did you even read the article on www.thebangswitch.com? The SBR's that will be sold by AGS, are Czechpoint imported CSA manufactured SBR's... same as the pistols, just with the stock attached.
are you sure about this? this is what i read on the bangswitch "The rifle is being built by CzechPoint and exclusively distributed by AGS Armament." no where did the bangswitch mention it being built by CSA. but wait got this also from the bangswitch..." CzechPoint takes a standard Vz.58 rifle and shortens everything forward of the receiver (gas system, barrel, handguards, etc.). Note: CzechPoint....not "CSA", takes a standard vz58 rifle and shortens them.....
i thought its illegal to import anykind of SBRs for commercial sales, correct me if im wrong jap, your knowledge and close ties to these companies should give you all the correct info....right?
I don't know all the BS import laws but, perhaps these rifles are imported as pistols and then made into sbr's. All it would take is quickly drilling out the rear sling loop and attaching the stock in its place.
That's probably just a SNAFU by MAC and his blog. I like his stuff, but he (who is?) isn't always 100% correct with information. I don't have all the details, but Czechpoint is an importer and in some cases and dealer/seller. The may do some minor work, but CSA is the manufacturer of the 58 rifles/pistols. For example, the rifles come into the country only allowed and designed to take the single stack mags. All come with the skeleton "sporter" stock. Outside contractors for Czechpoint open up the magwell, replace parts with US parts, etc. Czechpoint may do some minor furniture swapping. But they don't do any heavy work. Unless that has changed.
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A tax stamp is permission to have a "non sporting" firearm.
IOW, NFA firearms do not have to be 922r compliant.
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Roger, No, Czechpoint will not be selling the SBR's directly. They will be selling them to their distributor, AGS... did you even read the article on www.thebangswitch.com? The SBR's that will be sold by AGS, are Czechpoint imported CSA manufactured SBR's... same as the pistols, just with the stock attached.
are you sure about this? this is what i read on the bangswitch "The rifle is being built by CzechPoint and exclusively distributed by AGS Armament." no where did the bangswitch mention it being built by CSA. but wait got this also from the bangswitch..." CzechPoint takes a standard Vz.58 rifle and shortens everything forward of the receiver (gas system, barrel, handguards, etc.). Note: CzechPoint....not "CSA", takes a standard vz58 rifle and shortens them.....
i thought its illegal to import anykind of SBRs for commercial sales, correct me if im wrong jap, your knowledge and close ties to these companies should give you all the correct info....right?
I don't know all the BS import laws but, perhaps these rifles are imported as pistols and then made into sbr's. All it would take is quickly drilling out the rear sling loop and attaching the stock in its place.
That's probably just a SNAFU by MAC and his blog. I like his stuff, but he (who is?) isn't always 100% correct with information. I don't have all the details, but Czechpoint is an importer and in some cases and dealer/seller. The may do some minor work, but CSA is the manufacturer of the 58 rifles/pistols. For example, the rifles come into the country only allowed and designed to take the single stack mags. All come with the skeleton "sporter" stock. Outside contractors for Czechpoint open up the magwell, replace parts with US parts, etc. Czechpoint may do some minor furniture swapping. But they don't do any heavy work. Unless that has changed.
um...ok, thanks dude but i pretty much knew all that info regarding the vz58s since i purchased mine in 2008, but thanks for the refresher course. since dan announced the import of th vz pistols he specifically said at the time in PISTOL configuration only, he never mentioned complete imported SBR vz58 double stack and all version. i myself dont know all the BS import laws but i find it interesting at times how all this works
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Roger, No, Czechpoint will not be selling the SBR's directly. They will be selling them to their distributor, AGS... did you even read the article on www.thebangswitch.com? The SBR's that will be sold by AGS, are Czechpoint imported CSA manufactured SBR's... same as the pistols, just with the stock attached.
are you sure about this? this is what i read on the bangswitch "The rifle is being built by CzechPoint and exclusively distributed by AGS Armament." no where did the bangswitch mention it being built by CSA. but wait got this also from the bangswitch..." CzechPoint takes a standard Vz.58 rifle and shortens everything forward of the receiver (gas system, barrel, handguards, etc.). Note: CzechPoint....not "CSA", takes a standard vz58 rifle and shortens them.....
i thought its illegal to import anykind of SBRs for commercial sales, correct me if im wrong jap, your knowledge and close ties to these companies should give you all the correct info....right?
I don't know all the BS import laws but, perhaps these rifles are imported as pistols and then made into sbr's. All it would take is quickly drilling out the rear sling loop and attaching the stock in its place.
That's probably just a SNAFU by MAC and his blog. I like his stuff, but he (who is?) isn't always 100% correct with information. I don't have all the details, but Czechpoint is an importer and in some cases and dealer/seller. The may do some minor work, but CSA is the manufacturer of the 58 rifles/pistols. For example, the rifles come into the country only allowed and designed to take the single stack mags. All come with the skeleton "sporter" stock. Outside contractors for Czechpoint open up the magwell, replace parts with US parts, etc. Czechpoint may do some minor furniture swapping. But they don't do any heavy work. Unless that has changed.
um...ok, thanks dude but i pretty much knew all that info regarding the vz58s since i purchased mine in 2008, but thanks for the refresher course. since dan announced the import of th vz pistols he specifically said at the time in PISTOL configuration only, he never mentioned complete imported SBR vz58 double stack and all version. i myself dont know all the BS import laws but i find it interesting at times how all this works
Umm....ok, no need to be snippy. Just trying to help. Considering your quoting wrong information and all. If Czechpoint themselves is making these guns from scratch or putting them completely together themselves. Then I'll stand corrected. And obviously since he was talking just about pistols months ago. These new short rifles don't apply to that old conversation.
Happy 4th. :) and be safe.
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Not being snippy...so just keep your cool
happy 4th of july
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Guys how about someone just PM Dan and find out from the horses mouth instead of all this conjecture and pissing back and forth.
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A tax stamp is permission to have a "non sporting" firearm.
IOW, NFA firearms do not have to be 922r compliant.
Not exactly, this is a current and frequent misconception as the details have changed.
SBR's most certainly and unequivocally must meet 922r compliance. today.
At one point several years ago this was not true but ATF changed their position on this several years ago and 922r applies to NFA SBR's.
Select fire and machine guns however ARE exempt from 922r.
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A tax stamp is permission to have a "non sporting" firearm.
IOW, NFA firearms do not have to be 922r compliant.
Not exactly, this is a current and frequent misconception as the details have changed.
SBR's most certainly and unequivocally must meet 922r compliance. today.
At one point several years ago this was not true but ATF changed their position on this several years ago and 922r applies to NFA SBR's.
Select fire and machine guns however ARE exempt from 922r.
The law has not changed.
Opinions are like alimentary termini - everyone has one and they all stink.
IOW, ATF opinions are just that - opinions. These opinions change depending on who's sitting in the chair on Pennsylvania Avenue. None of these opinions change the law.
Two guys wrote letters asking the same question to the revenuers a while back, and got two opposing answers back.
Also, the revenuers have been caught perjuring themselves to get a conviction (so they're proven liars).
Also, for those of you who believe everything the ATF puts on paper, there are letters out there that confirm my statement.
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Opinions are like alimentary termini - everyone has one and they all stink.
You got that right. Although not addressed to me it seems like the intent here is pretty clear and personally I am not interested in forfeiting my NFA weps or litigious $$ for an opinion.
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/ddoneill/922r_NFA_July_2009_zps8d8e0967.jpg)
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Your letter was written by a drone, and most likely has an ink-stamped signature.
Again, ATF letters are non-binding. This means that they are not "get out of jail free" cards,even for the recipient.
Also, if you care to look, the form 1 is an "Application to manufacture".
Unless you're manufacturing in Siberia, or Brno, your new NFA weapon will be manufactured in the USA, and thus - not imported. 922r affects what? "Unimportable" weapons.
Apparently, this has not been discussed properly on this board, but it's been done to death on others (and I'm not quite ready to start copy/pasting all the content from those boards to this one).
OPINIONS DO NOT CHANGE THE LAW.
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If you are contemplating making a SBR, don't take the word of anyone on the internet (even when they show you pretty letters).
The US Code is free to browse, and you can answer your own questions.
If you can't seem to figure it out, consult a lawyer (they are paid to know this stuff).
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Yes, 922r is a construction violation not possession and ATF may say you are constructing an SBR or anything they want for that matter. It is their burden to prove but this day in age the politburo in DC gets away with anything. The point being is there are discrepancies both ways and I trust these guys as much as the buffoon masquerading as POTUS= Zero. Especially anything firearm related.
This particular article does say "if you plan on changing parts" Well what if you don't change any parts? So as usual with ATF it's vague and a few US parts isn't an issue for me if it keeps them out of my life and even if this is all total BS (which 99 % of all gun laws are BTW) you would still have to defend($$$)your stance.
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If you are contemplating making a SBR, don't take the word of anyone on the internet (even when they show you pretty letters).
The US Code is free to browse, and you can answer your own questions.
If you can't seem to figure it out, consult a lawyer (they are paid to know this stuff).
I don't and currently have 30 stamps so I'm not new to the game and am in frequent conversation with the NFA attorney that prepared my trust. I have 6 more filed on the e-forms 2 months ago and don't know what will become of those.
With the current trust hullaballoo these will most likely be my last. >:(
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OMG...this is why I bailed from my dreams of an SBR...twice.
I'll just stick with my Vz. AKs, AR and AK pistol.
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What are the facts of VZ.58 pistols?
I have one.
/thread.
:P
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bleep, they are out of stock again! >:( :'(
Any word on when the 7.62x39 pistols will be back in the US?
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Well I about crapped on myself last week when my stamps showed up for my VZ58 and an UZI. It only took 285 days. Mailed Jan. 2013. BTW it is 922r compliant and the PK-AS is perfect for this platform.
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/ddoneill/IMG_0665_zpse935485e.jpg)
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/ddoneill/IMG_0662_zps751da03c.jpg)
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/ddoneill/IMG_0758_zps41c511d4.jpg)
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Very nice. I like the color scheme.
I might have been interested in one but to be honest after waiting out one permission slip for almost a year I went in another direction. Plus I have friends that are more patient than I so I just wait to shoot their toys. Tax free no less.
If I forget the pain in the but it was I might do up a vz58 sbr but a suppressor would come first............ maybe, that one does look tempting.
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Very very Nice SBR Vz-58, DDNC!!! 8) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-excited002.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-excited002.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-excited002.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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That's a great looking SBR! I am very jely! :D
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Yup - that's nice!
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how does it balance with that stock? I heard they were a mite weighty, albeit they looks so sweet and spacy.
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how does it balance with that stock? I heard they were a mite weighty, albeit they looks so sweet and spacy.
You heard wrong.
The Vz58 (in stock form) is over a pound lighter than a stamped-receiver Kalashnikov.
Yes, the Vz58 has a milled receiver.
Yes, the Czechs are excellent gunmakers.
. . . and "yes", after you install rail systems and hang 14 pounds of crap on it, it'll get "weighty".
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I was asking about the stock..the VZ is anything but spacey