The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ SP-01 and variants => Topic started by: Yer on July 31, 2013, 03:49:29 AM
-
I like my posts because not only do they answer my questions, but they spark conversations and expand knowledge here at CZ Forum.
(Lookin at the SP01, not the shadow because its a gift to me so I'm keeping price in mind on their part)
Big question: For a guy looking to upgrade his future competition pistol, should I go with the decocker or safety?
I've heard that DCs make the trigger rougher, making the DA shot harder.
But my padre is pretty confused by my preference towards the SP01 (because of the smoother trigger, if what I've heard of non-DCs is true)
"yeah the SP01, not the Tactical"
"But it has a safety....on a double action"
"But I've heard DCs make the trigger rougher, plus gunsmiths tend to charge more for trigger work done on DC models"
"but it has a safety......"
Tell me your preference from the competition standpoint and please explain why you think this would be better for competition.
I'm going to get to know the gun before deciding if I want any modifications, but if I'm going to compete I probably will unless I love the factory trigger set-up. Heck I might even buy it a dress
-
I sold my SP01 Tactical not too long ago and I have an SP01 Shadow. The 2 don't compare. If you are looking for both a duty/carry gun that you can also use for competition, I would go with the Tactical because it has the firing pin block on it. The Shadow is pretty much for competition because of the lack of FP block and it is for this reason you can get a much more finely tuned trigger on the Shadow than the Tactical.
-
Manual safeties on a defensive handgun are just as unnecessary as a de-cocker is on a competition handgun. Of course that is just my opinion, and there will surely be plenty of people in the "cocked and locked" crowd that will disagree.
-
Get the safety model, that way you have a choice of running in it SA or DA. With a decocker you only get DA. Choice is good.
I got an SP-01 Shadow (safety, not FPB) for games and a P-01 (decocker) for carry
-
I agree. Get the manual safety version. Then you have the choice. I don't get why some people have a hard time manually de cocking a modern pistol equipped with a FPB. If you are holding the hammer and release the trigger to reset, the gun will not fire if you slip.
Folks act like it's this scary thing. Crikey...its not a old SA revolver with no transfer bar lowering a solid pin on a live round.
I've personally seen decockers fail and have an AD. I'll trust my hand over some metal parts designed for insurance policies of police departments.
Practice at the range. Its not that hard.
OK. Rant over
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
-
I agree. Get the manual safety version. Then you have the choice. I don't get why some people have a hard time manually de cocking a modern pistol equipped with a FPB. If you are holding the hammer and release the trigger to reset, the gun will not fire if you slip.
Folks act like it's this scary thing. Crikey...its not a old SA revolver with no transfer bar lowering a solid pin on a live round.
I've personally seen decockers fail and have an AD. I'll trust my hand over some metal parts designed for insurance policies of police departments.
Practice at the range. Its not that hard.
^^What he said^^
I place my other thumb over the FP while decockiing my 75 B Compact and SP01 (safety, FPB). One has more options this way.
-
plus another for safety. If you use it in DA mode the safety is inactive and cannot be set to safe so it works like a true DA.
-
Can anyone confirm or deny the "Decocker makes the trigger stiffer" ?
-
Can anyone confirm or deny the "Decocker makes the trigger stiffer" ?
It doesn't. Fresh from the factory safety or decocker are the same.
-
Stuart is correct. Out of the box makes no difference. Either can be tuned to the same level. Blindfolded, you could not tell which was which once professionally tuned.
-
Stuart is correct. Out of the box makes no difference. Either can be tuned to the same level. Blindfolded, you could not tell which was which once professionally tuned.
That's very good to hear - should make it less of a change to have one pistol for competition and the same pistol (but a decocker version) for carry.
-
Stuart is correct. Out of the box makes no difference. Either can be tuned to the same level. Blindfolded, you could not tell which was which once professionally tuned.
That's very good to hear - should make it less of a change to have one pistol for competition and the same pistol (but a decocker version) for carry.
My Tactical will work for both, but it is very good to hear. When Stuart speaks, you listen.
-
I dont find it hard or unsafe to decock a safety pistol manually and its not like I'm pointing it at my head or my dog when I decock it.
I find that decocker versions are at least 10 to 100 times harder to put back together after breaking down completely since you have to break down the ejector cage components to get the cage out or use a shorter dowel in the pin slot that keeps it all together to get it out in one piece. Either way it sucks.
I'll stick with the enclosed ejector cage safety version.
-
My padre convinced me to switch to the SP01 Tactical over the basic SP01. I've tested the 75BD and loved it which got me wanting a CZ for myself. I'll take the decocker over a safety: don't want to accidentally switch it on plus I can get a higher grip with a decocker model
-
plus I can get a higher grip with a decocker model
You have to be careful with how much force you exert on the decocking lever if you ride it. This is one reason I went with a Shadow. I ride my safety pretty hard with my thumb to get a high grip. If I were to put the same force on a decocker by riding it, I'd be decocking the firearm.
-
I hold my pistols a bit differently: my thumbs ride each other and my index finger bends down a bit from an earlier injury
-
I hold my pistols a bit differently: my thumbs ride each other and my index finger bends down a bit from an earlier injury
Gotcha. Should be fine then with that kinda grip.
-
yeah most instructors watch my grip and either say its not right or "I guess you can do it that way" After I show them a 10 round 2" group at 10 yards rapid fire they just move on.
-
Check online and ask Stuart which action is used by the most winning CZ pistols world-wide and here in the US in Bianchi or USPSA including Matt Mink, Angus Hobdell, Etc etc-- Decocker or Safety?
I'm not challenging what can be done to a decocker, just what's used by the pro competition shooters.
-
Oh...there is no doubt that a non firing pin block SP01 Shadow is the most popular gun on the shooting circuit.
but that wasn't Yer's question. his question was did the decocker make the feel of the trigger stiffer than a safety version of the same gun.
I said no, because in my opinion the triggers on both a safety model SP01 and decocker model SP01 are equally heavy and creepy out of the box. Given one does a trigger job to both, they will both be equally good. that the decocker parts make no difference in the feel of the trigger.
Now, if you go back to the question, what would you "prefer" as a competition gun. I would say a "Non firing pin block" gun. The reason for this would be shorter reset point, simpler action. Whether that is a decocker gun or safety gun doesn't matter. Just happens CZ decockers only come with a firing pin block.
So hopefully that makes some sense.
-
The reason for this would be shorter reset point, simpler action.
While we're on the same topic, how much shorter is the reset comparing an SP-01 with the SRT versus a Shadow with an SRT?
-
Your correct of course. I was looking at it as "the best overall" Trigger, not the 'stiffness".
My bad. Sorry
-
Your correct of course. I was looking at it as "the best overall" Trigger, not the 'stiffness".
My bad. Sorry
you still helped and the question encompasses all aspects, including the information you gave so thank you.
I will probably have a reset action job as well as a race trigger job done on it to put it on par with non-FPB competition pistols.
Just watched City of God, fantastic movie. Read Blood Meridian, one of my favorite books by far
-
yeah most instructors watch my grip and either say its not right or "I guess you can do it that way" After I show them a 10 round 2" group at 10 yards rapid fire they just move on.
Dang!!! In rapid fire? What are your split times? And what pistol? ???
Czech's in the mail
-
yeah most instructors watch my grip and either say its not right or "I guess you can do it that way" After I show them a 10 round 2" group at 10 yards rapid fire they just move on.
Dang!!! In rapid fire? What are your split times? And what pistol? ???
Czech's in the mail
I only do a max of 10 bullets whenever I feel like just emptying it. I've been doing it for years, so its really just about realigning it and following that "now" feeling you get. But the CZ has done the best, but its also been one of the heavier ones I've used.
Rapid fire won't do me any good in a competition. again I do ten rounds not the 2 you normally use to remove a target. I need to work on double taps and switching targets. But I'm confident in my accuracy for SD, but not much else at all =/
-
Safety.
-
I vote for nothing on a practice pistol, but a decocker on the SD one.
-
I will probably have a reset action job as well as a race trigger job done on it to put it on par with non-FPB competition pistols.
IMHO, the only reason to go that route is if you want a 40, since a shadow 40 isn't an option. I tricked up my 75b, and it's very very nice, but it also cost more than a spo1 shadow when it was all said and done. If you're going to compete, and you're going to get a 9mm, just get the right gun to start with and save some time and money.
-
Yer, you can get every bit as high a grip with a safety model as a decocker. That shouldn't factor into your decision. You also shouldn't factor in your concerns over manually decocking one. The simple fact that you are concerned about it takes you out of the running for someone who is going to blow it. I just Frog-lubed my thumb and did it over and over. It's not difficult. It's not iffy. If I can do it one-handed with my thumb lubed, you can do it with a little sweat out at the range. I understand your concern. You feel like when you pull the trigger, the hammer will suddenly exert force and might slip from your thumb if you're not holding it right, but that's not how you do it in practice. In practice you pull back the hammer with your thumb first, then pull the trigger, then let the hammer down. There's no sudden force against your thumb because your thumb is already fully supporting the hammer when you pull the trigger. If you pay attention to what you're doing, you're not going to blow it. NOW...
... just get the right gun to start with and save some time and money.
The above quote is key. If you want to compete, you should receive a gun with a good trigger. If you want one with an FPB, get one, and if you want one with a decocker, knock yourself out, but get it WITH a decent trigger. This means you buy a Shadow, or you buy an SP-01 Tactical from a custom shop and have them work the trigger over before they send it to you. The stock 75/SP-01 trigger sucks. I'm not saying you have to get every single custom option you want up front, but at least a trigger job with a race hammer. And since the hammer is an external modification, make sure whatever hammer you get qualifies as an OEM part so that your gun isn't disqualified from Production/SSP.
The extra $260 for a Shadow or $250-$500 for some gunsmithing up front will make you happier in the long run. I promise. ;)
-
Yer, you can get every bit as high a grip with a safety model as a decocker. That shouldn't factor into your decision. You also shouldn't factor in your concerns over manually decocking one. The simple fact that you are concerned about it takes you out of the running for someone who is going to blow it. I just Frog-lubed my thumb and did it over and over. It's not difficult. It's not iffy. If I can do it one-handed with my thumb lubed, you can do it with a little sweat out at the range. I understand your concern. You feel like when you pull the trigger, the hammer will suddenly exert force and might slip from your thumb if you're not holding it right, but that's not how you do it in practice. In practice you pull back the hammer with your thumb first, then pull the trigger, then let the hammer down. There's no sudden force against your thumb because your thumb is already fully supporting the hammer when you pull the trigger. If you pay attention to what you're doing, you're not going to blow it. NOW...
... just get the right gun to start with and save some time and money.
The above quote is key. If you want to compete, you should receive a gun with a good trigger. If you want one with an FPB, get one, and if you want one with a decocker, knock yourself out, but get it WITH a decent trigger. This means you buy a Shadow, or you buy an SP-01 Tactical from a custom shop and have them work the trigger over before they send it to you. The stock 75/SP-01 trigger sucks. I'm not saying you have to get every single custom option you want up front, but at least a trigger job with a race hammer. And since the hammer is an external modification, make sure whatever hammer you get qualifies as an OEM part so that your gun isn't disqualified from Production/SSP.
The extra $260 for a Shadow or $250-$500 for some gunsmithing up front will make you happier in the long run. I promise. ;)
Thanks ID, its more of the myth of the "decocker triggers are rougher than safeties" that lead me away from decockers at first. BUT Stuart and David Milam both say it does not affect the trigger.
I am looking an SP-01 for competition, just have to find a new or like-new one (good luck to me right?)
And now I'm also drooling over a friend's compact. Might have to grab that for EDC. Oh no I got the bug
-
The CZ you have fired, was it stock?
-
The CZ you have fired, was it stock?
The one I test-fired was owned by a range, so stock parts and such.