The Original CZ Forum

CZ PISTOL CLUBS => Compact CZ 75s => Topic started by: SKILCZ on October 22, 2014, 09:40:58 PM

Title: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: SKILCZ on October 22, 2014, 09:40:58 PM
I know once P-01 got NATO approval, the NSN was on the slides.  Then they changed some parts (presumably improving them) and started making pistols w/o NSN on slide.  Did the P-01 ever get back to having new production pistols having the NSN on the slide?  What parts were changed?  Why?  Were there failures with original NSN P-01s?
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on October 23, 2014, 12:10:58 AM
The NSN number is an inventory number for NATO, nothing more...nothing.  Shovels and flashlights used by NATO members have the same numbers.

I assume CZ USA puts the numbers on the gun for marketing purposes. 

Incidentally NATO members test their equipment "NATO" does not.

Take Care

Bob
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: SKILCZ on October 23, 2014, 08:03:59 AM
Thanks.  I do realize that it's just a mark of NATO approval.  However, that mark was removed at some point.  I'm just wondering if it's back and why it was removed.  I was under the impression that the slide stop and possibly a few other parts were the reason for NSN removal.  I'm just wondering if it's back now and what specifically was the issue with the slide stop, etc.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Bossgobbler on October 23, 2014, 11:19:49 AM
From what I have read it was a spring that was changed.  No reason was given for the change or what spring was changed.  The NSN # can not go back on until it goes though the complete testing again.  Do to cost & time it takes, it may not be retested.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on October 23, 2014, 01:18:09 PM
It likely is just a case of someone forgetting to run the guns through the engraving machine.  The number is applied by CZ USA.  It seems to be a decent marketing move since so many feel it means something more than an inventory number.   NATO members hardly would need NATO approval to change springs in this or any other gun.

IIRC it was the Czech National Police who did the testing not NATO, on the gun and their tests were very, very strict.   The gun is an amazing piece of hardware.

Bob
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: SKILCZ on October 23, 2014, 02:02:52 PM
I don't care about the NSN, per se, or whether it's on the gun.  I just wanted to know if there was a known issue with any part of the NSN P-01s.  I also wanted to have a rough way of dating the pistol based on the presence or absence of the NSN.   

Thanks for all replies.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Bossgobbler on October 23, 2014, 03:04:33 PM
every CZ has a date on it.  in pic blow see the (14) in front of the chamber, that is the build year
 
 (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f54/GeninCloud/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps5b1d334a.jpg)
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Stuart on October 23, 2014, 07:03:50 PM
There are current 2014 model P01 with NSN#.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eerw/Forum%20stuff/IMAG0478_zps6d07c0dc.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/eerw/media/Forum%20stuff/IMAG0478_zps6d07c0dc.jpg.html)

As said, the NSN number is just an inventory #. One of the NATO requirements is part interchangeability. When CZ produced the version with the different slide stop spring, it could not have the NSN #.
So you will see the P01 in the US with the NSN#, without it- both rollmarked as P01 and then the version labeled as Compact D.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: jdgray on October 23, 2014, 07:10:59 PM
every CZ has a date on it.  in pic blow see the (14) in front of the chamber, that is the build year
 
 (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f54/GeninCloud/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps5b1d334a.jpg)
What are those grips?
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Tok36 on October 23, 2014, 07:14:50 PM
I believe they are hand stippled plastic CZ grips.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Genin on October 27, 2014, 12:47:04 PM
^^^^Correct. I stippled my factory CZ Compact Plastic Grips. I prefer stippled grips. I do it on my knives, guns, etc. Nothing compares to that feel in hand when you want a solid purchase on the item you're holding. I just did some to my BK16 recently too since the stock grivory grips are a bit slick. World of difference!
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f54/GeninCloud/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdc659e8e.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/GeninCloud/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdc659e8e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: kobus on October 27, 2014, 01:21:44 PM
my apologies to the OP for going off topic.

can Genin and/or jdgray (or anyone else) give a brief description of how to do that stipling please.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Genin on October 27, 2014, 02:06:32 PM
kobus,

Get a soldering iron (mine is an $8 one from Walmart)

Use a fine tip

Sand down the grips so that the polymids are almost flat

Taking your time do quick presses with the soldering iron into the polymer (just till you see the puff of smoke)

Make sure every dot touches the dot next to it so you ensure you hit the entire area

Every once in a while start stippling from another area and let the groups meet up (will give it a more natural look)

After you are done, use 1500 grit sandpaper to hit off any high or loose pieces of plastic

BAM DONE!

youtube has a bunch of wonderful videos as well, but that's how I do it!
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: deleteyourselph on October 27, 2014, 08:50:54 PM
Mine was made in August of this year and it has the NSN on it.  Not sure if the spring upgrade finally made it through the NATO inspection, or CZ really did botch an entire batch and have things back on track now.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on October 27, 2014, 09:18:19 PM
I can see the spring, if it is materially different in design having a NATO number but I have a hard time believing NATO cancelled the NATO inventory number for the pistol causing CZ USA to have to stop putting it on the gun.  My nonsense meter is way off the chart.  CZ UB doesn't put the number on the guns, only CZ USA does.  I assume to convince American handgunners the number actually means something in terms of how the gun is made, which it doesn't.  The Beretta pistol the US Army uses has the inventory number so does a hammer.

The Czech Republic is part of NATO now and they use the gun, hence it gets a NATO inventory number.

The next thing we will hear is their is something special about CZ barrels that don't come with a black exterior finish.

Take Care

Bob
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: jdgray on October 27, 2014, 10:40:05 PM
I would rather not have a paragraph of writing on my pistols.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on October 27, 2014, 11:59:29 PM
I would rather not have a paragraph of writing on my pistols.

Especially a number that has no value to the owner.

Bob
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: kobus on October 29, 2014, 08:03:30 AM
thanks very much Genin.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: ace73 on November 01, 2014, 09:09:17 AM
Here is a picture of the slide stop spring change. the gen 2 change required CZ to
stop using the NSN until it was re-approved. Notice the additional hole in the frame.....

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/bob7398/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/bob7398/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on November 01, 2014, 12:50:10 PM
Ace, with that change you really think CZ USA stopped scribbling a NATO inventory number on the gun.  You really think that do you.  For that to happen NATO in Belgium would have had to contact CZ USA and advise them of the spring change and let them know the gun was being dropped from inventory until NATO they got around to applying the same number  to the same gun albeit with a different spring.  Once that was done NATO then would advise CZ USA of the number being reinstated .

Maybe instead of all that happening, CZ USA ordered in a shipment of the guns and simply forgot to inscribe the number on the gun.  The number is there as a marketing gimmick to convince you it means something other than an inventory number.

Personally the least amount of extra writing on my guns the better.  I guess marketing trumps common sense.

Take Care

Bob
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: ace73 on November 01, 2014, 01:45:20 PM
Canuck,
Looks like we're just a couple of funny Bob's!!
I believe they stopped because they made a change.....
and you believe they simple forgot!! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Bob

Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: ace73 on November 01, 2014, 03:23:04 PM
I did write the descriptions you know!!!

http://www.sswllc.com/cz-p01-9mm-alloy-frame-black-polycoat.html

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=31186/CZ-USA+01199+CZ+P-01+10%2B1+9mm+3.8%22





Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on November 01, 2014, 03:57:18 PM
Maybe but what do you think is most likely.  FYI NATO never did any testing on this gun....ever.  The number means nothing.  It is a myth that CZ USA plays to sell gullible shooters the gun.   That said it is a fine handgun, well made and capable of very good accuracy.  I have the 75D PCR which is the same gun without the rail. 

Take Care

Bob
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Genin on November 09, 2014, 08:59:55 AM
Ace,
My gun doesn't have the NSN but it also doesn't have the 2 holes Gen 2 spring, so how does that make sense? My slide is also the Euro roll marked CZ 75 Compact D.

Picture to show the lack of second hole:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f54/GeninCloud/IMG_00582_zps45bd1167.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/GeninCloud/media/IMG_00582_zps45bd1167.jpg.html)
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: ace73 on November 09, 2014, 03:26:03 PM
I don't think any of the Euro roll marked P01's had the NSN.......
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: ace73 on November 09, 2014, 03:43:32 PM
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=27902.0

Read at the last post......#3.........parts interchangeability.......

That's why the NSN was stopped with the slide spring change......something else
must be different with the newer ones not having the NSN........but I haven't
heard anything! Maybe you should email CZ.......
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Genin on November 09, 2014, 04:56:49 PM
Yeah man, I think you're right, the Euros probably never carried the NSN. I don't really care all that much, just thought it was worth a mention that mine didn't fit the part change reason. I think I'll leave CZ alone hahaha.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on November 09, 2014, 06:27:59 PM
I don't think any of the Euro roll marked P01's had the NSN.......

Why would they?    CZ USA is the one who puts it on the guns.  CZ UB doesn't.  It is just marketing and a lot of folks buy into it.   Barnum & Bail;y covered it pretty well.  The guns are very good guns.  Nobody seems to have figured out why CZ USA screws up an otherwise clean slide but they do.

Take Care

Bob

Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Bushwack on November 10, 2014, 02:28:07 PM
In 3 weeks I hope to have a P-01 (or a PCR) and to P-01 owners, don't you think not having the NATO number devalues your pistol (from a re-sell perceptive)? 
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: viking499 on November 10, 2014, 02:46:47 PM
In 3 weeks I hope to have a P-01 (or a PCR) and to P-01 owners, don't you think not having the NATO number devalues your pistol (from a re-sell perceptive)?

Nah.  Sure doesn't change the way it shoots.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Cyanide on November 10, 2014, 03:17:43 PM
Nope, not at all. It's just an NSN.  My thought is that there is too much confusion with NATO certification for that number where the Czech Police tests are mentioned in the same context.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Cyanide on November 10, 2014, 03:20:26 PM
Re-sell? You underestimate the love we have for this pistol. Or at least that I have for this pistol!
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on November 10, 2014, 03:33:48 PM
In 3 weeks I hope to have a P-01 (or a PCR) and to P-01 owners, don't you think not having the NATO number devalues your pistol (from a re-sell perceptive)?

Have you read any of this thread or do you really believe the number is something more than an inventory added by the US distributor.  FYI the Canadian Army's Inglis Hi-Power made in 1944/45 using non-metric dimensions has a NATO inventory number and those guns were long before NATO was born.

Take Care

Bob


Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Bodene on November 10, 2014, 03:57:55 PM
While the number itself might not mean much, if there are a limited number of them with it as compared to ones without it I could see it being more desirable to some just for it being less common. Otherwise if they both shoot the same does it really matter? - Bodene
.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on November 10, 2014, 04:41:10 PM
While the number itself might not mean much, if there are a limited number of them with it as compared to ones without it I could see it being more desirable just for it being less common. Otherwise if they both shoot the same does it really matter? - Bodene
.

Given a choice I would want one without the Billboard nonsense on the slide. The guns are never going to reach collector status.  Might be worth a complaint to CZ USA about the fact they are messing up a perfectly good pistol with the number scribbling.

Take Care

Bob

Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Alpha Sierra on November 10, 2014, 07:04:35 PM
In 3 weeks I hope to have a P-01 (or a PCR) and to P-01 owners, don't you think not having the NATO number devalues your pistol (from a re-sell perceptive)? 
I'm not a P-01 owner, so that makes me a potential buyer.  As such I belong to the group (buyers) whose opinion is the one that sets the pistol's value.

I would absolutely NOT pay a premium for some meaningless inventory number cluttering up the pistol.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Bodene on November 10, 2014, 08:16:43 PM
To each his own Canuck44. I didn't buy mine for the numbers but they don't bother me either. Most the time I spend looking at mine it's down the sights and not at the side. Would I pay more for one because it did or didn't have the numbers? No. Either way it's a good gun that I'm happy with. - Bodene
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on November 10, 2014, 09:35:05 PM
To each his own Canuck44. I didn't buy mine for the numbers but they don't bother me either. Most the time I spend looking at mine it's down the sights and not at the side. Would I pay more for one because it did or didn't have the numbers? No. Either way it's a good gun that I'm happy with. - Bodene

Oh Bodene, I know they are a great pistol.  I have the 75D Compact aka PCR which is the same gun without a rail.  To me it is just silly marketing based upon a myth.  The gun was test by the Czech police or army and it passed very exhaustive tests.  I forget where the test criteria was/is posted.  They were posted either on this site or CZ UB's website.  If I remember correctly one of the tests was the complete dis assembly down to the frame using several guns.   The parts were then mixed and the guns reassembled.  At that point a certain level of accuracy was expected along with reliability. 

But it wasn't NATO as some suggest who did the testing.

Take Care

Bob
 
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: ace73 on November 14, 2014, 07:02:30 PM
Putting the NSN on the gun is just for marketing!
Sig, Glock and Beretta also have guns with NSN's assigned!
I don't think it adds or subtracts from the price!
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Blackwatch on November 28, 2014, 10:55:26 PM
Here is a picture of the slide stop spring change. the gen 2 change required CZ to
stop using the NSN until it was re-approved. Notice the additional hole in the frame.....

Thanks for the info/pics on Gen 1 vs Gen 2
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on November 29, 2014, 12:39:02 AM
Here is a picture of the slide stop spring change. the gen 2 change required CZ to
stop using the NSN until it was re-approved. Notice the additional hole in the frame.....

Thanks for the info/pics on Gen 1 vs Gen 2

A wise old gentleman from the backwoods of Canadian folklore would say "Horse Puckey" a reference to frozen horse droppings used by rural Canadian lads to play road hockey.  We used them in the city too before milk wagons were replaced by truck in the late 50's.

The NSN number is the NATO inventory number for the pistol not the spring.  FYI "NATO" has never tested the gun ever, never....period.  The Czech Police or Army did and the tests were exhaustive but they were Czech tests not NATO.   Members of NATO may or may not test the equipment they use but NATO doesn't.

Spread the word.

Take Care

Bob
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: ace73 on November 29, 2014, 10:16:20 PM
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=27902.0

Read at the last post......#3.........parts interchangeability.......

That's why the NSN was stopped with the slide spring change......something else
must be different with the newer ones not having the NSN........but I haven't
heard anything! Maybe you should email CZ.......


Oh Bob........of course it's the gun and not the spring......but with 2 different springs,
you lose the "parts interchangeability"........therefor, you lose the NSN.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Canuck44 on November 29, 2014, 10:56:56 PM
ace73 you are being silly.  The NSN number is put on by CZ USA as a marketing ploy to convince US shooters there is something special about a NATO inventory number.  Shovels have NSN numbers, so do Inglis Hi-Powers used by the Cdn. Army.  The Inglis pistols were made prior to NATO being formed circa 1944 and 1945 and have not been made since.  The Cdn Army still has unfired Inglis pistols in stores.   If there are PO-1 pistols without the number they were missed by CZ USA.  You want the number stenciled on the slide send it to CZ USA I am sure for a fee they will be happy to oblige.

Every piece of equipment used by NATO member troops has such a number.  When you run combined operations under NATO command the sytem allows for example a US supply officer to send out a German infantry unity the right piece of equipment. 

As a buyer the last thing I need on my pistol is some useless inventory number marring the surface. 

I have no idea where the explanation for the absence if a number on some pistols arose from.  Probably from the same source who came up with the idea the inventory number meant something more than it does.  I know, lets all say "NATO" tested the pistol before allowing the gun in inventory.  Some folks in the US still believe the world is flat or just 8,000 years old so why not that story?  It sure seems to have caught on.

Take Care

Bob
Title: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: gdawgs56 on November 30, 2014, 03:04:33 AM
I feel like this thread is repeating and repeating itself with yall. lol
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Stuart on November 30, 2014, 09:40:43 AM
pretty funny thread.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Makaroviii on November 30, 2014, 12:27:08 PM
FWIW, the P-01 at my range is dated "14"... (http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/poke.gif)
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: 75Plus on November 30, 2014, 04:25:43 PM
pretty funny thread.

I am waiting to see who manages to get the Last Word in.  O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: gdawgs56 on November 30, 2014, 04:35:16 PM
Yup, I foresee this one getting locked eventually.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: SIGnoramus on November 30, 2014, 04:36:27 PM
Yup, I foresee this one getting locked eventually.

+1... I'm willing to bet a Mod has the last word on this one.

Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Tok36 on November 30, 2014, 04:49:50 PM
I have not checked back with this thread for a while. It seams as though i have not missed anything.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: amada8 on December 01, 2014, 04:44:21 PM
The number means nothing.  It is a myth that CZ USA plays to sell gullible shooters the gun.   

Oh crap, oh crap.  CGW just dropped a Pro Package P01 in a FEDEX box for me today.  Seems the marketing worked.   :P :P :P       ;)
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Firemanjones on December 01, 2014, 05:34:47 PM
Yawn, this tread.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: viking499 on December 01, 2014, 05:45:40 PM
pretty funny thread.

I am waiting to see who manages to get the Last Word in.  O0 O0 O0


My money is on Grendel.......
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: SKILCZ on December 01, 2014, 08:16:12 PM
Thanks for all the replies.  Wow, this thread got huge.
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: bull on December 04, 2014, 05:45:00 PM
my kid has a shovel with nsn on it..shovel for sale..$3000 OBO..its rare and speshul..i really can not see the issue over this..i do not like the cz usa KC mark on the guns in fact I detest loaded chamber indicators and a read the owners manual mark..its a gun and must be respected but i guess too many were too stupid to figure that out..i guess its like those who drink beer and go plinking,,i just do not understand that...oh well..shovel is still for sale
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Firemanjones on December 04, 2014, 06:32:46 PM
Yes, the guns get put away before the first beer is opened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Blackwatch on December 19, 2014, 11:15:59 PM
NSN is on both my 2006 (top) and recently acquired, straight out the box 2014 below

(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/P01_compare.jpg)
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: TheJester on December 20, 2014, 12:24:38 AM
NSN is on both my 2006 (top) and recently acquired, straight out the box 2014 below

Are the Ellett Brothers back at it again? From what I have read, there were only 600 made. Wonder how many they'll make this time?
Title: Re: P-01 and NSN - Is it back?
Post by: Blackwatch on December 20, 2014, 01:26:22 PM
NSN is on both my 2006 (top) and recently acquired, straight out the box 2014 below

Are the Ellett Brothers back at it again? From what I have read, there were only 600 made. Wonder how many they'll make this time?

I think they make a small batches from time to time...Damascus got a few 2013 production last December also. I would be interested to know more on quantities produced in total.