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GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: IDescribe on May 18, 2015, 05:14:04 PM

Title: Load Testing: VihtaVuouri N320 powder
Post by: IDescribe on May 18, 2015, 05:14:04 PM
This is WAY overdo.  Here's the preview.  These ladders will be shot tomorrow.  If you see any problems or have any questions or requests, feel free:  ;)

______________________________

Bullet:      Hornady 115gr HAP
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.08
 
Load data being referenced is from Vihtavuori website and is for the Hornady 115gr XTP:  4.0-4.5.  The Hornady XTPs and HAPs are supposed to have the same profiles so that load data may be used interchangeably.  While I am a little leery of that assumption, and I considered dropping the starting load, the current starting load of 4.0-4.2 is a common minor power factor competition load range for N320 with 124gr JHPs that have longer shanks and deeper seating depths, so I?m confident that 4.0 isn?t a problem as a starting load.

4.0gr     
4.2gr     
4.3gr     
4.4gr     
4.5gr     
____________________________________

Bullet:      Montana Gold 124gr JHP
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.07 

Load data being referenced is from Vihtavuori website and is for the Megashock 124gr JHP, PLUS a boatload of forum published loads for these two very common components, including load data from a CZfirearms forum regular whom I trust.  I suspect 3.9 will put me around a PF of 133.  We will see.

3.5gr     
3.7gr
3.8gr   
3.9gr     
4.0gr     
_____________________________

Bullet:      XTreme 147 RN-HPCB
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.16   

Load data being referenced is from Vihtavuori website and is for the Hornady 147gr XTP:  3.1-3.9.  I have experience with this bullet with other powders, one faster than N320, and everything points to 3.1 being a perfectly safe starting zone.  As well, I?ve found working loads from competition shooters with this bullet and N320 that also indicate 3.1 is a safe starting load.  BAWunder also posted his data for N320 with an XTreme .356 147 RN, and 3.3gr gave him an average PF of 134.  I?m actually looking for little faster than a PF of 134, and I?m seating shallower, as well, so I suspect I?ll need more than 3.3 to get where I want to be.

3.1gr   
3.2gr   
3.3gr     
3.4gr     
3.5gr     
__________________________________

Bullet:      XTreme 135 HP (Heavy plated)
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.09   

This is honestly a little educated guessing.  The load data here is the same ladder as I?m using for the 147gr RN-HPCB above plus .2gr at each rung.  I will shoot the 147gr ladder first to see how things line up with Viht?s XTP data.  If those are too hot (I can't imagine they will be), this ladder will not be shot.

3.3gr
3.4gr     
3.5gr     
3.6gr     
3.7gr     
___________________________
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: burlycz on May 18, 2015, 05:19:33 PM
Nice experimental setup. I did the same with Titegroup over in the free samples thread. I like seeing the velocity/powder curves and difference OAL makes. Been wanting to try N320, so can't wait to see your data. What are you planning for N value?
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 18, 2015, 05:32:40 PM
What are you planning for N value?

You have gone above my knowledge base with this question.   ;) 


I think you may be thinking I'm looking to get more out of this than I am.  I've been sitting on some N320 for a long time without doing load development.  I'm just looking to work up minor PF loads with loads 2,3,4 and see how they perform and how they feel.  With load #1, I wouldn't personally load 115gr for minor PF, but one of the regulars said he'd be interested in seeing how the 115gr HAPs did with N320 and AA#7 for longer range bullseye, and so I figured since I had the 115 HAPs and was going to have a hopper full of N320, I'd start working up a load for that, as well.  ;)
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: painter on May 18, 2015, 05:36:57 PM
 ;D

Watching intently.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: Wobbly on May 18, 2015, 06:45:02 PM
If you see any problems.... feel free:  ;)


I have a problem. I can't be there to help.  :P
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 18, 2015, 07:39:20 PM
It's only an eight hour drive.  ;)
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: burlycz on May 18, 2015, 08:41:58 PM
What are you planning for N value?

You have gone above my knowledge base with this question.   ;) 

How many of each load?
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: Joe L on May 18, 2015, 09:02:11 PM
ID--are you going to chronograph each load, 5 rounds of each?  Shoot from a rest and quantify group size?  In case you can't tell, I've never done this, although I have watched some guys do some testing at the range...while I was practicing. 

Looks like fun to me.  Sorry I'm not there with three cameras, charged batteries, and a handfull of SDHC cards, LOL.

Joe
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 18, 2015, 09:55:01 PM
BurlyCZ, these will be 10 round strings.  I've found that the improvement in precision/consistency you get in regard to average velocity with 10 round strings over 5 round strings is significant, and it's worth the effort to run 10 round strings.  I have also found the improvement in precision going up to 20 round strings to be not significant enough vs 10 round strings to be worth the effort.

EDIT:  Nicky, I just reread and saw you asked about the rest and not the press.  I will not be using the Ransom Rest.  I still haven't built a mount for it.

I'll also mention here that while the Hornady powder drop has been great for me, it's stumbling a little with the N320.  Every now and then it binds, and every now and then it throws a charge a tenth of a grain heavier than what it was consistently throwing over and over and over.
 
Joe L, if you were here, I'd be running the camera while you were painting pretty targets.  ;)   I'll be shooting two-handed on a wrist-rest, probably a rolled up towel.  As mentioned, each charge weight will get ten rounds, and I will fire all over a chrono.  I gave up trying to run targets while chronoing loads because it's too much running back and forth to the standard.  I actually hook my chrono up to my laptop, so I don't have to leave the bench while chronoing unless I want to.  My accuracy goal is to avoid hitting the chrono.  ;)  What I was thinking about doing, and what I'll probably do is put up a fresh target if I think a string is likely to hit 133 PF for the 124gr and the 135gr bullets, and PF 136/137 for the 147gr bullet, as those are my preferred power factors for those weights, and I'd be curious to see targets there, but even then, I'll likely be shooting at 15 yards, so it's not likely to show much.  I'll also throw up a target for the top 115gr load.  I'll do some legit accuracy testing when I get the Ransom Rest up and running, sometime between this Thursday and July 4.   ;)
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: 1SOW on May 18, 2015, 10:19:42 PM
 
Quote
I suspect 3.9 will put me around a PF of 133.

Nice test!  Looking forward to your results.

On the MG,  I've never loaded that short,  but my "guess" is above 133PF,  but I tend to overestimate the effect of OAL on pressures. 
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 18, 2015, 10:57:01 PM
On the MG,  I've never loaded that short,  but my "guess" is above 133PF,  but I tend to overestimate the effect of OAL on pressures.

I'm guessing the extra .02 is worth a tenth of grain.  And if I get there at 3.8 instead, so much the better.  ;)
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: Riptide439 on May 19, 2015, 06:42:49 AM
Put me on that list of "waiting patiently for results"
Thanks ID
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: Joe L on May 19, 2015, 06:53:01 AM
ID--Just don't clean the gun until you are finished.  Wouldn't be prudent...uh...scientific.   :) :)

My 97 is starting to look like my Kadet, which is good. 

Joe
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: burlycz on May 19, 2015, 09:53:35 AM
BurlyCZ, these will be 10 round strings.  I've found that the improvement in precision/consistency you get in regard to average velocity with 10 round strings over 5 round strings is significant, and it's worth the effort to run 10 round strings.  I have also found the improvement in precision going up to 20 round strings to be not significant enough vs 10 round strings to be worth the effort.

Awesome. I use 10rd strings as well for the same reason. Look forward to the results. If you check out my recent post in the bullet giveaway thread you can see my spreadsheet format. I ended up having to take a screenshot and post an image of it to get it to look reasonable on multiple devices.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 19, 2015, 03:37:07 PM
I built these ladders after posting last night, and there was a change to one of the bullets.  I moved again recently, and I can't find my Montana Gold 124gr JHP.  I assume they're hiding in a closet somewhere.  I replaced that ladder with XTreme 124gr HP, but that was the final ladder, and the sun came out and ruined that.  More on that in that section.  Anyway, the other three are good.


Bullet:      Hornady 115gr HAP
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.08
 
4.0gr      Avg fps - 1061  fps  |  PF-122  | SD-10  | ES-38
4.2gr      Avg fps - 1059  fps  |  PF-122  | SD-15  | ES-48
4.3gr      Avg fps - 1097  fps  |  PF-126  | SD-10  | ES-34
4.4gr      Avg fps - 1123  fps  |  PF-129  | SD-20  | ES-59
4.5gr      Avg fps - 1134  fps  |  PF-130  | SD-10  | ES-27

On the 4.4gr string, only eight shots registered on the chrono, and on the 4.5gr string, only six shots registered.  It could have been the sun, but I had another sun issue later on with another bullet, and it didn't cause missed shots; it caused the velocities to go wild.  No idea.  I did put up a fresh target on the 4.5gr string.  I'll upload and post that shortly.

Next run with these bullets and this powder will be 4.4, 4.5, 4.6, 4.7.  I'm hoping to get to around 1170.


___________________________________


Bullet:      XTreme 147 RN-HPCB
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.16   

3.1gr      Avg fps - 786  |  PF-115  | SD-8  | ES-27
3.2gr      Avg fps - 837  |  PF-123  | SD-27  | ES-78
3.3gr      Avg fps - 847  |  PF-125  | SD-20  | ES-60
3.4gr      Avg fps - 866  |  PF-127  | SD-15  | ES-40
3.5gr      Avg fps - 895  |  PF-132  | SD-7  | ES-22     

Next run with these bullets and powder will be 3.5, 3.6, 3.7.
___________________________________

Bullet:      XTreme 135 HP (Heavy plated)
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.09   

Note: Slight change to initial plan.  I had a heck of a time getting the powder drop tuned in to 3.4gr.  It kept going back and forth between 3.3 and 3.5, so after a few tries, I said "Screw it; I'm skipping 3.4 and upping the top end."  ;)  I was confident this ladder was going to be light anyway. 

3.3gr      Avg fps - 872  |  PF-118  | SD-21  | ES-69
3.5gr      Avg fps - 879  |  PF-119  | SD-24  | ES-83
3.6gr      Avg fps - 899  |  PF-121  | SD-16  | ES-53
3.7gr      Avg fps - 903  |  PF-122  | SD-16  | ES-51
3.8gr      Avg fps - 933  |  PF-126  | SD-9  | ES-28


Next run with these bullets and powder will be 3.8, 3.9, 4.0, 4.1.  I'd like to get these around 980. 
___________________________________


Bullet:      XTreme 124 HP (Heavy plated)
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.09   

3.8gr      Avg fps - 937  feet/sec  |  PF-116  | SD-15  | ES-47

And that's where that ladder ended.  The clouds broke completely after this string, and at 11:40 in Florida, that's bad news for the chrono.  I didn't have the sun screens with me, nor have they worked well in the past.  I usually use a target stand to cast a shadow across the chrono instead, and that has worked great, but our new stands at the range are too short now for that to work that close to noon, so once the clouds broke and the 3.9gr string went wild, I called it off and went home. 

Just so people can see what direct sunlight can do to your chrono, here's the data from the 3.9gr string:

Average fps -- 1183
Standard dev --137
Extreme Spread --382
Velocities -- 1039, 1039, 1076, 1104, 1113, 1173, 1191, 1322, 1357, 1421

I'm no scientist, but that data looks a little suspicious.   ;)  I will rebuild the 3.9gr string and continue with what I've got.

___________________________________

Overall, I found N320 be quite pleasant, and I like the smell.  I'm no stranger to fast powders in 9mm, faster than n320, even, but even with that, rounds were surprisingly soft.  Even the 115gr HAPs weren't as sharp as expected at the top load.  And that 147gr cartridge has great potential.  I'm going to load again tonight, and I think I'm going to do the dirty deed -- Titegroup.   ;)  But I'll continue at least two of the ladders above, as well.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 19, 2015, 04:10:14 PM
Here's the target for the 115gr HAP with 4.5gr of N320.  Target at 15 yards.  That flyer was a flinch -- felt it and called it.



(https://40.media.tumblr.com/1ec2e43c623e906a957f6d2152398a65/tumblr_nom51rru8w1st1xojo1_540.jpg)
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: painter on May 19, 2015, 04:13:58 PM
I'd take a 99-8x. :P
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 19, 2015, 04:23:53 PM
I'd take a 99-8x. :P

Hah!  At 15 yards, two-handed, with a wrist rest, I can do that.  Off-hand at 25 yards, not yet.  ;) 


I stopped on the flinch to see where it went (possibly growled out a curse), and aside from where the flinch went, I saw only the group to the right.  I think the group to the right was the first few rounds, followed by the flinch, followed by the rest.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 19, 2015, 04:26:10 PM
And regardless, that is pretty much the limit of my current ability.  My guess is that those rounds were absolute lasers, and every bit of spread on the paper is me.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: painter on May 19, 2015, 04:30:04 PM
I'd take a 99-8x. :P

Hah!  At 15 yards, two-handed, with a wrist rest, I can do that.  Off-hand at 25 yards, not yet.  ;) 


I stopped on the flinch to see where it went (possibly growled out a curse), and aside from where the flinch went, I saw only the group to the right.  I think the group to the right was the first few rounds, followed by the flinch, followed by the rest.
Neither can I. I can't do it at 50 feet one handed either, but I'm getting better.

What's scary is I shoot with a guy that averaged 287 in our gallery league with .22 pistol.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: rtp on May 19, 2015, 05:52:22 PM
If you ever dig up those MG 124gr JHPs, I've heard more than a few mentioning loading them similarly to the HAP or XTPs, so you may be on the light side.
I don't load with N320 (as of yet, anyways), but 3.7gr of TG with 124gr MG JHP@1.065" nets me a PF of 131 - may help in determining next batch of loads for you..
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 19, 2015, 06:00:13 PM
Thanks.  That will help.  I'm collecting 9mm load data for TG right now.

And I will find the 124gr MG.  It's not like I lifted something that heavy and threw it away without looking in the box.  ;) 
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: Riptide439 on May 19, 2015, 08:16:21 PM
Joe's uncanny ability is an anomaly.  Us normal folk settle for much less!  ;D
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: painter on May 19, 2015, 08:30:53 PM
Joe's uncanny ability is an anomaly.  Us normal folk settle for much less!  ;D
While we may never reach Joe's level of prowess behind a trigger...

we'd do better if we put 10-20 K+ rounds downrange a year like he has.

His dedication is what has gotten him to that level as much as his natural talent.

It's fun...not easy...Right Joe? ;)

Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 19, 2015, 09:39:47 PM
While we may never reach Joe's level of prowess behind a trigger...

I've got at least 20 years before I concede that. ;)
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: Joe L on May 19, 2015, 11:20:33 PM
So...on with the tests!  I am going to have to start reloading .45ACP or go back to the 9 this year, so I am very interested in how your ladders turn out.

Joe
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on May 21, 2015, 01:25:07 PM
I fired N320 with a new bullet today -- the XTReme 115gr HP, and I added two more charge weights to the 147gr ladder, and I shot 2 different loads through my VP9.  I'll color the HK VP9 data in blue so there's no confusion.

Bullet:      XTreme 115gr HP
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.08

I knew from the data I'd already collected that this bullet would be fine at 4.0 grains, so I loaded 50 of them, thinking of maybe using this load for Steel Challenge.  I shot one string through the CZ75 and one string through the VP9, which is in blue. 

4.0gr     Avg fps - 1026  fps  | SD-16  | ES-42
4.0gr     Avg fps - 1016  fps  | SD-19  | ES-68 --- HK VP9

I'm blaming the weak standard deviations and extreme spreads on the light load.  The HK failed to eject one round, I suspect because it's so light, so this is probably not a fully functioning load in the HK.  I shot the other 30, as well, and accuracy was only so so.

___________________________________


Bullet:      XTreme 147 RN-HPCB
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.16   

Normally, if I'm going to continue a ladder, I'll redo the highest one or two charges from the previous run so that I can see if the continuation lines up with the original, but I was lazy and started with the next charge weight.  Original ladder in italics.  VP9 load in blue.

3.1gr      Avg fps - 786  |  PF-115  | SD-8    | ES-27
3.2gr      Avg fps - 837  |  PF-123  | SD-27  | ES-78
3.3gr      Avg fps - 847  |  PF-125  | SD-20  | ES-60
3.4gr      Avg fps - 866  |  PF-127  | SD-15  | ES-40
3.5gr      Avg fps - 895  |  PF-132  | SD-7    | ES-22     

3.6gr      Avg fps - 910  |  PF-134  | SD-6    | ES-18
3.7gr      Avg fps - 924  |  PF-136  | SD-10  | ES-33
3.7gr      Avg fps - 919  |  PF-135  | SD-5    | ES-15  --- HK VP9


I was planning on reshooting the 124gr Xtreme HP ladder and continuing the 135gr Xtreme HP ladder.  However, the sun stopped that yet again.  I shot the 115gr XTReme HP strings over the chrono first thing this morning, and with the exception of one shot that registered over 3000 feet/sec (which obviously I dropped), it worked fine.  I moved on to the 135gr XTreme HPs, and the sun came out, and everything went to crap.  The RNs then chronoed fine.  It's only these XTreme HPs that are doing it, and I'm wondering if in addition to the bullets being super shiny that the shape of the hollowpoint cavity may be a problem.  The cavity isn't round.  It's hexagonal.  I know shiny bullets can sometimes cause problems with direct sunlight glinting off the nose into the chrono sensors, and I'm wondering if the six faces inside the cavity are reflecting light like a disco ball spinning spinning at 1200 revolutions per second.  I'm going to have to build a super screen for the chrono sometime soon.

That's it for now.  Still haven't loaded any TG.  Maybe today?  Maybe not.  I'll start a separate thread for that when I do.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: burlycz on May 21, 2015, 01:41:49 PM
Thanks for your efforts and data IDescribe!
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: 1SOW on May 21, 2015, 11:06:41 PM
Did you find your MGs?
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: P01man on May 22, 2015, 03:58:14 AM
Great info!! Thanks.

Since I have a good amount of N320, RMR 115 gr bullets (like Speer HP) and lots of mixed used brass,   I did a ladder starting at 3.8 grain up to 4.4 grain for steel specifically with my Czechmate set up in Limited config with a 11 lb recoil.  CCI 500 small pistol primers (also what I had).  OAL of 1.09 (I measured Czechmate barrel to take about 1.105 with this particular bullet).

While cases landed very close, 3.8 was very accurate - ragged edge at 15 yards.  Accurate held until about 4.2 grain and then fell rapidly.  Sorry - did not chrono since it was for steel - but my guess would be 4.1 - 4.2 for minor 125 pf based on how it felt.  I was wondering if I should go lower than 3.8 but given the cases were barely falling out, decided to skip it.

Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: P01man on May 22, 2015, 04:15:18 AM
Also I am having great success with the RCBS powder drop with micrometer set up on my Hornady LnL AP.  With N320, deviations are no more than 0.02 grain, measured with a precision digital scale good for 0.001 gn.  Using all 5 stations:

Redding - de primer / sizer

Redding expander

RCBS powder drop with micrometer

Redding competition seating die with micrometer

Redding competition trimming die with micrometer


Also do it in 2 steps - sizer + expander, followed by the rest, repeating the expander.

Amazingly good, consistent and worry free  :)    I have tried the whole gamut of dies - Redding is well worth the premium.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on June 11, 2015, 04:02:02 PM
More loads.  I got in a shipment of Blue Bullets, and I also ran ladders with MG 124gr JHP.  All three loads came in lighter than expected.  That's not surprising with the two Blue Bullets loads as I was dealing with a new bullet and was plenty conservative, but I expected more than I got out of the MG 124 JHP.


Bullet:      Montana Gold 124gr JHP
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- used
OAL:           1.078
 
3.7gr      Avg fps - 933  fps  |  PF-116  | SD-12  | ES-42
3.8gr      Avg fps - 965  fps  |  PF-120  | SD-17  | ES-56
3.9gr      Avg fps - 984  fps  |  PF-122  | SD-6    | ES-21
4.0gr      Avg fps - 1003 fps |  PF-124  | SD-10  | ES-33

I was hoping to get a little more velocity than that for the 4.0gr.  I know 4.2 is common for people to get to around PF133, but that's typically loaded longer, around 1.13, and we have a forum regular who is getting to about that with 4.0gr at an OAL of around 1.09/1.1, so I was thinking 4.0gr might do what I need, but....

I'll be adding to this ladder, obviously.  I'd like to get around 1070.
______________________________________________

Bullet:      Blue Bullets 125gr RN
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- used
OAL:           1.1
 
3.5gr      Avg fps - 957  fps  |  PF-120  | SD-13  | ES-45
3.6gr      Avg fps - 977  fps  |  PF-122  | SD-6    | ES-22
3.7gr      Avg fps - 989  fps  |  PF-124  | SD-13  | ES-49
3.8gr      Avg fps - 1000 fps |  PF-125  | SD-5    | ES-18


______________________________________________

Bullet:      Blue Bullets 147gr RN
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- used
OAL:           1.12
 
2.8gr      Avg fps - 789  fps  |  PF-116  | SD-8  | ES-33
3.0gr      Avg fps - 853  fps  |  PF-125  | SD-6  | ES-19
3.1gr      Avg fps - 855  fps  |  PF-126  | SD-8  | ES-28
3.2gr      Avg fps - 870  fps  |  PF-128  | SD-4  | ES-15
3.3gr      Avg fps - 874  fps  |  PF-128  | SD-6  | ES-20

______________________________________________

I think I have an issue with charge weights I need to get sorted out.  I'm building these ladders on the 650, and because it takes no time at all to run off ten rounds, it feels like I spend 80% of my time adjusting the powder drop for the next charge weight.  Not wanting the extra time dealing with the beam scale, I've been using the electronic scale on my RCBS Chargemaster to set up the powder drop.  Even a tenth of a grain has a window, and when I get set for 3.2 grains, I don't know if it's 3.21 or 3.29.  I'm getting some notably mild velocity bumps here and there for my incremental charge weights here, and I've noticed it on several ladders recently, and I think that's the problem.  My "3.2gr" charge might be 3.28, and the next charge weight of "3.3gr" may actually be 3.31, so it's a tenth of a grain difference on paper, but maybe only a few hundredths of a grain in actual difference.  I hate to add the extra time of the beam into the already tedious powder drop adjustments while building ladders on a progressive, but if that's what I have to do....

The Blue Bullets are nice.  I did get a little blue on my finger tips, but it washed right off.  I did pull one after crimping and had no scrapes through the coating.  The coating is also very evenly applied.  It's not the Hi-Tek that Bayou and BBI and several others use.  It's some proprietary blend.  They do resize it again after the coating has been applied and cured.  I am guessing others do this, as well, but this coating seems more evenly applied than the Hi-Tek coated bullets I've used.  They're very uniform.  I've seen others speaking to these being more accurate than other coated bullets, but I can't speak to that at this time.  I ran 160 rounds through one target today, so I had a big hole.

I'll also add that I love the standard deviations I get out of coated bullets.  It makes me feel like I'm doing something right.   ;)

More to come.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: Riptide439 on June 11, 2015, 07:18:59 PM
ID - Were you using .356 Blue Bullets? Did you check your barrel to see if there is any lead build up?
I chose to order .358 and have little to no leading after 300 to 400 rounds.
Interesting to hear your results.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on June 11, 2015, 07:24:51 PM
I did get the .356.  I did not check for leading.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders MORE bullets
Post by: IDescribe on June 11, 2015, 08:04:53 PM
Have you had issues with leading and Blue Bullets? The instances I've read of have been fixed with better belling.  I shot them through the VP9, as well, so I will have to check both.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders MORE bullets
Post by: 1SOW on June 11, 2015, 08:24:03 PM
We get get quite different results with the MG 124 JHPs.  At 1.097, 4 GRS N320, Win or R&P cases,  my pro chrono show well over 130 PF.  Chrono cked  more than once with the same results. 😕

ADDED:  since these chrono's I've found and corrected  the results:   The drops were very close to a 4.1 average.   It depended on how the LEE powder pan was turned.  :P  Bought a more reliable scale.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders MORE bullets
Post by: Riptide439 on June 12, 2015, 05:39:20 PM
Have you had issues with leading and Blue Bullets? The instances I've read of have been fixed with better belling.  I shot them through the VP9, as well, so I will have to check both.

My 75B & 85C slugged at .3555+- and my SP-01 at .3553+-. At .356 I was scrubbing & scrubbing and using lead solvent to get the barrel back to normal.
I tried Bayou & Blue at .357 and had a bit less leading. The 75B & 85C had a bit more leading then the SP01 but not like the .356 bullets.
James recommended to give the .358 a try. No issues whatsoever since I switched to .358
Title: Re: N320 Ladders MORE bullets
Post by: IDescribe on June 15, 2015, 05:23:57 PM
I see no leading in either the CZ or the VP9, but I honestly haven't shot enough of the Blues to say for sure.  I'll keep an eye out.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: BrknCylncr on January 02, 2016, 01:26:17 PM
___________________________________


Bullet:      XTreme 147 RN-HPCB
Powder:      N320
Primers:      Federal SPP
Brass:         Starline -- virgin
OAL:           1.16   

Normally, if I'm going to continue a ladder, I'll redo the highest one or two charges from the previous run so that I can see if the continuation lines up with the original, but I was lazy and started with the next charge weight.  Original ladder in italics.  VP9 load in blue.

3.1gr      Avg fps - 786  |  PF-115  | SD-8    | ES-27
3.2gr      Avg fps - 837  |  PF-123  | SD-27  | ES-78
3.3gr      Avg fps - 847  |  PF-125  | SD-20  | ES-60
3.4gr      Avg fps - 866  |  PF-127  | SD-15  | ES-40
3.5gr      Avg fps - 895  |  PF-132  | SD-7    | ES-22     

3.6gr      Avg fps - 910  |  PF-134  | SD-6    | ES-18
3.7gr      Avg fps - 924  |  PF-136  | SD-10  | ES-33
3.7gr      Avg fps - 919  |  PF-135  | SD-5    | ES-15  --- HK VP9


I was planning on reshooting the 124gr Xtreme HP ladder and continuing the 135gr Xtreme HP ladder.  However, the sun stopped that yet again.  I shot the 115gr XTReme HP strings over the chrono first thing this morning, and with the exception of one shot that registered over 3000 feet/sec (which obviously I dropped), it worked fine.  I moved on to the 135gr XTreme HPs, and the sun came out, and everything went to crap.  The RNs then chronoed fine.  It's only these XTreme HPs that are doing it, and I'm wondering if in addition to the bullets being super shiny that the shape of the hollowpoint cavity may be a problem.  The cavity isn't round.  It's hexagonal.  I know shiny bullets can sometimes cause problems with direct sunlight glinting off the nose into the chrono sensors, and I'm wondering if the six faces inside the cavity are reflecting light like a disco ball spinning spinning at 1200 revolutions per second.  I'm going to have to build a super screen for the chrono sometime soon.


This is great info... but given the relatively tight SD with 3.1gr, I can only assume that accuracy was good. Can you comment on the the accuracy? I'm shooting a bullseye match on Monday with N320 and Xtreme 147gr RN. 125 PF is not a requirement. I'm using an Accushadow. I realize the bullet profile is different, but this data may get me in the ballpark of working my loads for this particular match. Thanks.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders MORE bullets
Post by: 1SOW on January 02, 2016, 04:24:47 PM
ID,  my results with the MGs were likely skewed high because they were taken when I modded disks to drop 4.0 n320 USING the LEE scale.
With the Eliminator scale,  the drops averaged just under 4.1 grains & Some were 4.1 grains.
I've corrected my 4.0 and 4.1 disk holes using the new scale and will rechrono the MGs when I get a chance and decent weather.
Title: Re: N320 Ladders with 4 different bullets
Post by: IDescribe on January 03, 2016, 11:34:16 AM
This is great info... but given the relatively tight SD with 3.1gr, I can only assume that accuracy was good. Can you comment on the the accuracy? I'm shooting a bullseye match on Monday with N320 and Xtreme 147gr RN. 125 PF is not a requirement. I'm using an Accushadow. I realize the bullet profile is different, but this data may get me in the ballpark of working my loads for this particular match.

Tight standard deviations don't always translate to good accuracy, though at 50 yards it might help you out with elevation, in particular.

I didn't shoot groups that day, and I have not loaded more of those XT 147gr RN-HPCB since that day, so I can't comment on accuracy. That particular Xtreme bullet is the most accurate plated bullet I've fired, and it doesn't seem to have a powder it doesn't like.   That said, I have found groups with 147gr bullets in my CZ to tighten up groups a bit somewhere around 925 feet/sec.  I load 147gr in the 935-940 feet/sec range.  Also, for 9mm bullseye loads, you want 115gr bullets between 1200 and 1300, and plated bullets are probably your worst option.  Lead, jacketed, and coated will outdo plated.
Title: Re: Load Testing: VihtaVuouri N320 powder
Post by: Wobbly on December 31, 2022, 05:29:57 PM
Load testing of RMR 124gr JHP at extremely short OAL done on the last day of 2022

Equipment
Caliber:     9x19 Luger
Bullets:     Rocky Mntn Reloading 124gr JHP
Brass:       RWS
Powder:    VihtaVuori N320
Max Velocity:  ~1070 fps
Primer:    CCI Small Pistol
OAL:        1.040"
Pistol:      SP-01 Tac
Qty:         8 rounds each, slow fired
Weather:  60F, wet and highly overcast (very even light conditions)
Chrono:    ProChrono Digital

(https://i.imgur.com/O3RzuYhm.jpg)

Load      Avg Vel         ES        SD
3.2gr          835            68        21
3.4             901            33        10
3.6             937            45        13
3.8             989            43        11
4.0           1031            20        07

NOTES
• All loads locked the slide back, 14# recoil spring
• TQ-2 target at measured 30 feet (10 yds)
• All shots registered on the chrono
• Max load estimated at 4.1gr (est 1070fps)
• 3.2/3.3gr good for plinking
• 4.0gr good for competition at 127PF
• Exceptional accuracy at every load level

Photos
My high-tech test setup...
(https://i.imgur.com/Z8A4Lw5l.jpg)

Down range view including chrono, measuring tape, and target...
(https://i.imgur.com/jMeOjocl.jpg)

Targets...
The black bull is 2.3" across. These are incredible results for 30ft with iron sights and 72yo eyes.
(https://i.imgur.com/snUR04Jl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/D8DMNbal.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/o4trWajl.jpg)
Title: Re: Load Testing: VihtaVuouri N320 powder
Post by: Oklahoma Jim on January 01, 2023, 07:00:06 PM
This is an interesting thread!  I'd love to find something like this for N330.  I'll try to work up some N330 data when I get back out to the range in the spring.
Title: Re: Load Testing: VihtaVuouri N320 powder
Post by: Wobbly on January 01, 2023, 08:36:30 PM
This is an interesting thread!  I'd love to find something like this for N330.

Did you look in the Stickies in the Directory of Reloading ??
Title: Re: Load Testing: VihtaVuouri N320 powder
Post by: Oklahoma Jim on January 01, 2023, 10:14:47 PM
I had missed that one. Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: Load Testing: VihtaVuouri N320 powder
Post by: wa1911 on January 29, 2023, 05:50:33 PM
• I forgot to report that I happen to find some of the 124 gr RMR match winner that I ordered back in 2021 and loaded them at 1.085" COL over 4.0gr N320. It turned out was my best load to date.
• 8 rounds for each load. Velocity posted is the average. Temperature was 56°F.
• Here is the report for that load. The picture is the first one on the list.

Equipment
Caliber:  9x19 Luger
Bullets:  RMR 124gr-FN-MW  ("Match Winner" conical)
Brass:    Win
Powder:  Vihta N320
Max Velocity:  1034  fps
Primer:  CCI Small Pistol
OAL:     1.085"
Pistol:    CZ TS2 Blue
Qty:      8 rounds each, slow fired
Weather:  56°F and sunny
Chrono:  ProChrono

Load      Avg Vel           SD 

4.0 gr         1024           9

Photos here: https://imgur.com/a/cbr2Ubj