The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ40B/40P => Topic started by: wtburnette on October 20, 2015, 08:37:02 AM
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I had posted this in an older thread on the topic, but it may be that no one wants to answer an old thread. Not sure, but I decided to make my own thread on the issue.
I have two 40P's, one that has been cajunized and one that is completely stock. Both have the "lazy action" problem mentioned in other threads in this forum (slow to go into battery, or getting stuck part way into battery). I see the most common fix for this is to get a 20lb Wolff recoil spring. I've heard that the 40P can use a 75B spring that has been cut down, or a 75 Compact spring. My question is, does the 75 Compact spring need to be cut down, or does it fit correctly? The barrel is a different length between the two guns, at least according to my research. I'd much rather order the Compact spring to use if it doesn't need to be cut and avoid cutting the spring, if possible. If it works for one of the guns, I'm guessing it should address the issue for the other gun as well (at least I hope so).
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So I guess everyone who had knowledge of this has left the forum? :-\
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It would seem that according to Midway they are the same spring. CZ75 Compact, P06, 40P, ect..
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/296663/cz-recoil-spring-cz-75-compact-p-01-pcr-40p-p-06-9mm-luger-40-s-and-w-factory-power
Sorry us 40P owners are getting rare, and I only check the forum every few days. I hope this helps.
:)
BUT, here is a link to an even older thread.. this might be one you are talking about. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=5937.0
Might want to contact Cajun or CZ Custom to see what they advise on the recoil spring..
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It would seem that according to Midway they are the same spring. CZ75 Compact, P06, 40P, ect..
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/296663/cz-recoil-spring-cz-75-compact-p-01-pcr-40p-p-06-9mm-luger-40-s-and-w-factory-power
Sorry us 40P owners are getting rare, and I only check the forum every few days. I hope this helps.
:)
BUT, here is a link to an even older thread.. this might be one you are talking about. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=5937.0
Might want to contact Cajun or CZ Custom to see what they advise on the recoil spring..
Thanks for the post. I was thinking of grabbing a wolff 20# spring and thinking I could use the Compact spring. Someone else with the same issue posted they used a Compact spring, which is why I thought it might work. I know Cajun is due to call me soon over a part issue, so I might just ask when the call comes in :)
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Well interesting is that while the frame is a compact the slide is full sized.. A few other locations I looked at recommended cutting down a full sized spring.. It's 'in between' sizes.
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Well interesting is that while the frame is a compact the slide is full sized.. A few other locations I looked at recommended cutting down a full sized spring.. It's 'in between' sizes.
I've read that and yes, it would have to be "in between", as the barrel length of the 40P and the full sized 75 are different. The 75 is longer, but quite a bit (4.6" to 3.9" if I have the specs correct). I hate the idea of trying to cut down my own spring, but not sure if there is a choice. I've also heard that if I replace the spring, it's best to go with a SS guide rod, but I'm not sure of the necessity of this. Seems like a lot of conjecture and not a lot of facts... :(
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I went with the wolf and cut it down. I also added a stainless guide rod. In most cz guns I would argue that the stainless guide rod isn't a functional improvement. With the 40p since it has the recoil bushing the stainless rod helps center the bushing and I think it doesn't get as chewed up. Of course when you replace the flat wound spring the wolf you lose that argument.
Cheers,
Toby
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Thanks for the information :)
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Well, ordered a 20# Compact spring and full sized spring to experiment with. Was going to order a SS guide rod when I noticed there was no SSL (https://) when checking out, so I aborted. Anyone carry these besides SSguiderods.com?
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Somewhere on here is info about some stainless pins that work. I think they were originally designed for injection molding or something. My brother bought a couple for his 40P and said they worked great. He is travelling so I can't get the info from him.
You might search through 40P/40B section.
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Somewhere on here is info about some stainless pins that work. I think they were originally designed for injection molding or something. My brother bought a couple for his 40P and said they worked great. He is travelling so I can't get the info from him.
You might search through 40P/40B section.
I'll keep looking, as thus far ssguiderods.com is the only site I've found listed that carry these...
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My 40P came with a SS guide. But I bought it 2nd hand, so it was probably replaced by the previous owner.
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Finally found it!
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=1771.0
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/85933778?item=85933778
My brother got a 40 P off GunBroker and ordered these to replace the guide rod and he said they fit great and I have shot his gun so they do work. Cheap too!
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Finally found it!
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=1771.0
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/85933778?item=85933778
My brother got a 40 P off GunBroker and ordered these to replace the guide rod and he said they fit great and I have shot his gun so they do work. Cheap too!
Thanks for that. I'm going to test the spring with the plastic guide rod and order steel if it seems necessary.
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I just bought a 40P this past weekend and have a very curved plastic guide rod. Well I just ordered the injector pin and going to order a compact 20# wolf spring. I will let you know how it goes.
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I just bought a 40P this past weekend and have a very curved plastic guide rod. Well I just ordered the injector pin and going to order a compact 20# wolf spring. I will let you know how it goes.
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Sorry, I should have posted earlier, but the 20# compact spring was a no go. Too small and I can't even rack the slide with it in the gun. Gonna cut down the full sized spring I have and test it out this weekend...
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I just bought a 40P this past weekend and have a very curved plastic guide rod. Well I just ordered the injector pin and going to order a compact 20# wolf spring. I will let you know how it goes.
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Sorry, I should have posted earlier, but the 20# compact spring was a no go. Too small and I can't even rack the slide with it in the gun. Gonna cut down the full sized spring I have and test it out this weekend...
Thanks for the heads up... Let me know how much of the spring you cut off. I have a few full size Springs. Thanks again.
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wow! I'm amazed, I ordered the pin from MSCIndustrialSupply@MSCDIRECT.COM last night at 11:30 pm and received it today. Now that's service. The pin recommended fits perfectly when cutting off just about a quarter inch. I will take it out to the range later this week to see how well it actually functions. I would like to know how much to cut off the full size recoil spring, then I think we will have a great replacement to the plastic rod and weak spring. thanks again for all the help/ideas.
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I also just picked up a very clean 40p with a very bent polymer guide rod and no buffer. Had a friend with a cnc make a buffer out of uhmw and took it to the range..... Ran great and is a fine shooter. Still didn't like the polymer guide rod so I ordered a full size from Cajun gun works and a full size wolf 22lbs recoil spring, a dremel and a little trimming on both and now it looks awesome. I'm waiting patiently for a package from CZ Custom with a main spring, the black checker compact aluminum grips and some other goodies before my next trip to the range to test it all out. If that goes as well as expected I can see a hammer and a full polish job in the near future. I like the fact that this is quite a bit different than my other cz's but still very much the same in many respects. Oh yea, this is my first post here after many moons of reading and gaining knowledge from this fine forum.
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I have a question, what is a good leather or nylon conceal holster for this gun? Id like to conceal carry this one
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I also just picked up a very clean 40p with a very bent polymer guide rod and no buffer. Had a friend with a cnc make a buffer out of uhmw and took it to the range..... Ran great and is a fine shooter. Still didn't like the polymer guide rod so I ordered a full size from Cajun gun works and a full size wolf 22lbs recoil spring, a dremel and a little trimming on both and now it looks awesome. I'm waiting patiently for a package from CZ Custom with a main spring, the black checker compact aluminum grips and some other goodies before my next trip to the range to test it all out. If that goes as well as expected I can see a hammer and a full polish job in the near future. I like the fact that this is quite a bit different than my other cz's but still very much the same in many respects. Oh yea, this is my first post here after many moons of reading and gaining knowledge from this fine forum.
Thanks for the information. How much did you cut off the Wolff spring? Did you match it to the size of the original spring, or cut until it seemed to work fine? Have you range tested it? Very curious to see how that works out for you. I still need to cut the 20# spring I have and test it.
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I have not been back to the range since the guide rod and spring mods. I cut around 3 1/2 to 4 coils off of wolf spring, trimmed guide rod to size and polished it along with the barrel. I'm waiting on a package from CZ Custom that has apparently got lost.... compact checkered aluminum grips, main spring and a few other goodies that I wanted to get on the gun before the next range visit. If all goes as I expect a polish job and new decocker hammer may be in the future. Here are a few pics if they work... Stock guide rod and spring beside the stainless and wolf spring cut.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/chiddly/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05121_zpsvujai2oi.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/chiddly/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05121_zpsvujai2oi.jpg.html)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/chiddly/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05131_zpstpc0j5zz.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/chiddly/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05131_zpstpc0j5zz.jpg.html)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/chiddly/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05151_zpssitch6fw.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/chiddly/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05151_zpssitch6fw.jpg.html)
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I have not been back to the range since the guide rod and spring mods. I cut around 3 1/2 to 4 coils off of wolf spring, trimmed guide rod to size and polished it along with the barrel. I'm waiting on a package from CZ Custom that has apparently got lost.... compact checkered aluminum grips, main spring and a few other goodies that I wanted to get on the gun before the next range visit. If all goes as I expect a polish job and new decocker hammer may be in the future. Here are a few pics if they work... Stock guide rod and spring beside the stainless and wolf spring cut.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/chiddly/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05121_zpsvujai2oi.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/chiddly/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05121_zpsvujai2oi.jpg.html)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/chiddly/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05131_zpstpc0j5zz.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/chiddly/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05131_zpstpc0j5zz.jpg.html)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/chiddly/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05151_zpssitch6fw.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/chiddly/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_05151_zpssitch6fw.jpg.html)
Very interested to hear how it goes when you get it all the way you want it!
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Doe's anyone have any recommendations for nice conceal holster? or what holsters will fit these ?
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Doe's anyone have any recommendations for nice conceal holster? or what holsters will fit these ?
They will often fit into a G19/G23 holster just fine. At least mine seems to fit into my Blade-tech kydex holster just fine. It's OWB, but I don't know why it would be different for a IWB holster. Mine doesn't fit 100%. It doesn't "lock in" to the holster the way the original G19 did, but it fits well enough that I've carried it without any issues. There is the tiniest bit of wiggle, but that's it. I'm sure a custom made holster would be best, but I went with something I already had. That said, I'd look around locally for someone to make you a custom kydex or leather holster in a style that you want. Might be easier than fitting it to a bunch of Glock holsters to find one that works... ;)
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Doe's anyone have any recommendations for nice conceal holster? or what holsters will fit these ?
They will often fit into a G19/G23 holster just fine. At least mine seems to fit into my Blade-tech kydex holster just fine. It's OWB, but I don't know why it would be different for a IWB holster. Mine doesn't fit 100%. It doesn't "lock in" to the holster the way the original G19 did, but it fits well enough that I've carried it without any issues. There is the tiniest bit of wiggle, but that's it. I'm sure a custom made holster would be best, but I went with something I already had. That said, I'd look around locally for someone to make you a custom kydex or leather holster in a style that you want. Might be easier than fitting it to a bunch of Glock holsters to find one that works... ;)
Thank you very much for your response. Just for the heck of it I tried my 75B Leather holsters, and guess what? They work! Eureka! Problem solved.
Thanks again
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Doe's anyone have any recommendations for nice conceal holster? or what holsters will fit these ?
They will often fit into a G19/G23 holster just fine. At least mine seems to fit into my Blade-tech kydex holster just fine. It's OWB, but I don't know why it would be different for a IWB holster. Mine doesn't fit 100%. It doesn't "lock in" to the holster the way the original G19 did, but it fits well enough that I've carried it without any issues. There is the tiniest bit of wiggle, but that's it. I'm sure a custom made holster would be best, but I went with something I already had. That said, I'd look around locally for someone to make you a custom kydex or leather holster in a style that you want. Might be easier than fitting it to a bunch of Glock holsters to find one that works... ;)
Thank you very much for your response. Just for the heck of it I tried my 75B Leather holsters, and guess what? They work! Eureka! Problem solved.
Thanks again
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Glad to hear it. With CZ, sometimes you have to think outside the box... :P
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Doe's anyone have any recommendations for nice conceal holster? or what holsters will fit these ?
They will often fit into a G19/G23 holster just fine. At least mine seems to fit into my Blade-tech kydex holster just fine. It's OWB, but I don't know why it would be different for a IWB holster. Mine doesn't fit 100%. It doesn't "lock in" to the holster the way the original G19 did, but it fits well enough that I've carried it without any issues. There is the tiniest bit of wiggle, but that's it. I'm sure a custom made holster would be best, but I went with something I already had. That said, I'd look around locally for someone to make you a custom kydex or leather holster in a style that you want. Might be easier than fitting it to a bunch of Glock holsters to find one that works... ;)
Thank you very much for your response. Just for the heck of it I tried my 75B Leather holsters, and guess what? They work! Eureka! Problem solved.
Thanks again
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Glad to hear it. With CZ, sometimes you have to think outside the box... [emoji14]
You've got that right. I just love these Pistols and some of the older rifles as well. My goal is to own at least one of every gun they made.
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Wow, good luck! I love CZ's as well, but with 4 of them at this point I'm satisfied for now. I'm actually thinking of picking up another 1911 soon as I have 4 CZ's but only 3 1911's. I'll be getting a Dan Wesson, which is basically a CZ, so that's work for both areas :D
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Indeed, you can't go wrong with Dan Wesson. Excellent choice. I recently purchased a Springfield 1911 a1 loaded and really like it. Shoots well and very smooth trigger..
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Indeed, you can't go wrong with Dan Wesson. Excellent choice. I recently purchased a Springfield 1911 a1 loaded and really like it. Shoots well and very smooth trigger..
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The Loaded is very nice. I have one in stainless. My trigger was a bit gritty out of the box, so I had a local smith install a new C&S trigger which is now very smooth and crisp. Very sweet gun.
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Indeed, you can't go wrong with Dan Wesson. Excellent choice. I recently purchased a Springfield 1911 a1 loaded and really like it. Shoots well and very smooth trigger..
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The Loaded is very nice. I have one in stainless. My trigger was a bit gritty out of the box, so I had a local smith install a new C&S trigger which is now very smooth and crisp. Very sweet gun.
C&S trigger?
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Indeed, you can't go wrong with Dan Wesson. Excellent choice. I recently purchased a Springfield 1911 a1 loaded and really like it. Shoots well and very smooth trigger..
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The Loaded is very nice. I have one in stainless. My trigger was a bit gritty out of the box, so I had a local smith install a new C&S trigger which is now very smooth and crisp. Very sweet gun.
C&S trigger?
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Cylinder & Slide: http://www.cylinder-slide.com/
They have nice trigger kits, as well as other 1911 parts. I don't recall the exact trigger kit I ordered from Brownell's, as it's been about a year, but it's very nice. Around 2.5 - 3lb trigger pull.
Actually, looking up my order from December of last year, I found the link:
http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/performance-enhancing-kits/tactical-ii-trigger-pull-kit-sku206103052-5502-12767.aspx
The kit I ordered was the Tactical II trigger pull kit. It was the one my gunsmith recommended.
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Very interested to hear how it goes when you get it all the way you want it!
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Ok, after the latest range trip I can report that my 40 p runs very well..... 200 rounds with one fail to feed late in the run. Ran 3 different ammos, 2 were reman, freedom and precision along with new perfecta so some of the cheaper ammo out there. 2 mags were new mecgar 12 rounders from Greg Cote, 2 were stock 10 rounders all ran good, glad I had a maglula to get 12 rounds in the mecgars but they loaded and ran great. The only downfall from this range trip was I shot the paint out of the left rear sight dot, didn't seem to hurt much any and I may like it better blacked out on the rear so the other paint is coming off the rear now. Overall very pleased with this gun so far.
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Pics! lol
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I ran another 50 rounds through my 40P today and had no issues. The main difference this time was that I was running the stock recoil spring over a steel guide rod from the industrial supply company linked above. I'll try to get out to the range before the coming holiday and do a decent test. But, I'm optimistic after this 50 rounds.
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I bought WTBurnette's spare 40P off of him, with his full disclosure of the cycling issue. On my first outing with it, I ran one of the 10 round mags with the original spring and one with a Wolff extra power spring. The extra power spring ran well through 25 rounds and the standard mag had multiple issues as he had experienced. On the next outing, I ran 50 rounds with only the extra power sprung mag and again, had issues, but not as many. I think the fresh springs helped, but did not completely eliminate the issue.
The next thing I tried was to use the mold ejector pin guide rod and it's been perfect since then. I've run 150 rounds through the gun in two range sessions. The first was just 50 rounds at a moderate pace, so I never really did warm the gun up much, but this mornings range trip saw 100 rounds run through the gun in about 10 minutes. That warmed the gun up a lot and the gun still worked perfectly. I'm going to put a fresh, factory recoil spring in the gun just because I don't know the round count on this, but I'm confident that the issue is gone now. My guess is that the plastic guide rod just was not up to the task of controlling the spring and especially when warm, allowed the spring to contact the barrel when the gun cycled. That's my theory at least.
After 150 rounds, I see no problems with the steel pin wearing on the frame. I'll be keeping an eye on that though, but don't think it will be an issue.
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Very nice! I'm glad you've had time to experiment, as my time has been extremely limited! Really happy to hear the SS guide rod seems to have fixed the issue.
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So, as Indy_Tim had indicated, a SS guide rod cut down to the proper length seems to be the fix for the failure to go into battery / slow to go into battery issue. He was kind enough to give me the one he had ordered as a spare and even cut it down for me. I put it into my 40P, to which I did nothing else and I've yet to experience another issue with it. I haven't run enough rounds to say with confidence it's 100% fixed, but I've put around 120 - 150 problem free rounds downrange with no issues at all.
Here's a shot of a couple of my targets last night. Both were shot at 7 yards. The one on the left is from the 40P, the one on the right is from my Dan Wesson CCO:
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh17/wtburnette/Guns%20and%20Ammo/Splatter%20Targets_zpsqzp02edd.jpg)
Oh yeah, I'm loving my CCO as well 8)
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Nice work. I don't think I could do as well at 7 yards. I'm glad you got the failure to battery issue fixed. :)
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Thanks, I am as well. The fix is pretty inexpensive and turns the gun reliable, which is what I wanted. It's a fantastic shooter and I can see myself taking it to the range more often now.
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Mine has the slow action syndrome unless 2 conditions are met.
it MUST be well oiled.
it MUST be held firmly.
I got a steel guide rod from CZ,had to ream the hole in the slide to 6mm.
I dont see why you need the bushing with a solid guide rod at all.
The goofy bendo rod that comes with it,yes you need the bushing.
I leave mine out sometimes and theres no difference.
They should've just put a steel rod it from the start.
I'll say one thing its the most accurate centerfire i own.
But I wouldnt trust my life on it,due to its tempermental behavior.
The slide to barrel fit is real tight,which i think causes some of the troubles.
I think after I shoot it a couple thousand times it'll straighten out.
Mine likes the 145 gr LEE bullet over whatever powder is available.
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Mine has the slow action syndrome unless 2 conditions are met.
it MUST be well oiled.
it MUST be held firmly.
I got a steel guide rod from CZ,had to ream the hole in the slide to 6mm.
I dont see why you need the bushing with a solid guide rod at all.
The goofy bendo rod that comes with it,yes you need the bushing.
I leave mine out sometimes and theres no difference.
They should've just put a steel rod it from the start.
I'll say one thing its the most accurate centerfire i own.
But I wouldnt trust my life on it,due to its tempermental behavior.
The slide to barrel fit is real tight,which i think causes some of the troubles.
I think after I shoot it a couple thousand times it'll straighten out.
Mine likes the 145 gr LEE bullet over whatever powder is available.
The bushing is not because of the polymer guide rod. The bushing is there because the gun is a frankengun and has a Colt slide mated to a CZ frame. It is a buffer during the slide operation to prevent gun/frame damage. I wouldn't run the gun without the bushing (regardless of type of guide rod).
Cheers,
Toby
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Mine has the slow action syndrome unless 2 conditions are met.
it MUST be well oiled.
it MUST be held firmly.
I got a steel guide rod from CZ,had to ream the hole in the slide to 6mm.
I dont see why you need the bushing with a solid guide rod at all.
The goofy bendo rod that comes with it,yes you need the bushing.
I leave mine out sometimes and theres no difference.
They should've just put a steel rod it from the start.
I'll say one thing its the most accurate centerfire i own.
But I wouldnt trust my life on it,due to its tempermental behavior.
The slide to barrel fit is real tight,which i think causes some of the troubles.
I think after I shoot it a couple thousand times it'll straighten out.
Mine likes the 145 gr LEE bullet over whatever powder is available.
The bushing is not because of the polymer guide rod. The bushing is there because the gun is a frankengun and has a Colt slide mated to a CZ frame. It is a buffer during the slide operation to prevent gun/frame damage. I wouldn't run the gun without the bushing (regardless of type of guide rod).
Cheers,
Toby
Thanks for the info,some guy at CZ told me you needed it to keep the spring from hitting anything with the plastic rod. It still seems a kinda cheesy place for a buffer.
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And I agree having a steel guide rod will help minimize the buffer damage during cycling. The 40p is the only cz I recommend a steel guide rod. But you still need the buffer installed. It's critical dimension is it's thickness front to back not its diameter.
Cheers,
Toby
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I'm closing in 500 rounds through my 40P since buying it from wtburnette and have had no issues since going to the steel guide rod. That was over 300 rounds ago. I have enough confidence in this gun that it's being carried today for the first time. Love this thing and am thinking that I need to add a P06 and P09 to the collection.
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Same here Tim. Since getting that SS guide rod from you, I've put around 200 - 250 trouble free rounds through my cajunized 40P. Solid gun at this point! 8)