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GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: 1SOW on June 18, 2016, 07:43:00 PM

Title: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: 1SOW on June 18, 2016, 07:43:00 PM
Has anyone tried Be86 with 9mm 124gr jacketted bullets?
Opinions on metering, velocities, cleanliness, muzzle flash, and shooting results would be appreciated.

From the Alliant web site...
Quote
Caliber 9mm,  BBL Length 4", Alliant Be 86 Powder, Max Load and velocity shown:

               Bullet         Case    Min OAL      Primer    Max   Velocity
9mm Luger       115 gr FMJ   Federal  1.12         Fed 100   6.1   1,219
9mm Luger       124 gr FMJ   Federal  1.12         Fed 100   5.8   1,167
9mm Luger       115 gr JHP   Federal  1.12         Fed 100   6.3   1,238
9mm Luger       124 gr JHP   Federal  1.12         Fed 100   5.9   1,175
9mm Luger       147 gr JHP   Federal  1.12         Fed 100   5.1   1,020
9mm Luger       125 gr LRN   Federal  1.12         Fed 100   5.7   1,179
9mm Luger       147 gr FP    Federal  1.08         Fed 100   4.7   999




[Mods tweaked the title and table]
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant be86
Post by: IDescribe on June 18, 2016, 10:19:24 PM
I have been curious about it, but at the end of the day, it's too slow for anything I do, so I have resisted the temptation time and time again.  I've already got CFE Pistol and Longshot that I look at and can't remember why I bought.  I don't need another one of those.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant be86
Post by: ReloaderFred on June 18, 2016, 10:29:24 PM
I just bought an 8 pound keg of BE86 about 3 weeks ago, but haven't loaded anything with it yet.  I bought it mostly for .38 Super, but I imagine that when I get some time to mess with it, I'll be trying it in several different calibers and bullet weights.  The data looks promising.

When I talked to the Alliant rep at the SHOT Show about it, he said they consider it part of their Bullseye line of powders and that it's between Bullseye and Power Pistol in performance.

Hope this helps.

Fred
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant be86
Post by: 1SOW on June 18, 2016, 11:19:05 PM
I read a couple of posts elsewhere that said they liked it for 9mm and that it would load light.  Just curious.
Alliant lists it best for 9mm and 40 cal.. :-\
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant be86
Post by: ReloaderFred on June 18, 2016, 11:34:08 PM
Alliant shows some promising loads with it in .38 Super and 10mm.  Those are the two calibers I'll probably use it the most in.  I've got a 10mm upper for one of my AR's, and the slightly slower powder should work pretty good in it.

Fred
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant be86
Post by: IDescribe on June 19, 2016, 07:16:24 AM
It's supposed to be the powder used in Federal's match grade .45.  I suspect it is good powder for particular applications.




edited to remove some erroneous information
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: 1SOW on June 24, 2016, 03:31:32 PM
Quote
I note also that it is "low flash", so defensive 9mm with 124gr might not be a leap
Hmmmm,  I wonder how it would perform replacing my n340 loads under 124/125 gr SD loads at 1165-ish FPS. 
If a pound is available locally,  I might just give it a try.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on August 19, 2016, 11:33:13 PM
So... I rather unexpectedly ended up with BE 86 too...
    I couldn't sell a big 8lb keg of 700x, so I am keeping it as my faster powder that I can load lighter 9mm rounds with for practice and fun, but I still need a powder to get my loads to Power Factor for USPSA. I have been looking around locally for Alliant American Select (really wanted to try it out), but have had absolutely no luck finding it. I didn't want to pay the hazmat fee to ship it (adds to much cost to justify buying it over something else locally). Anyways, the last 5 or 6 weeks we were moving and things were crazy, so I just got back to looking for powder and it suddenly seems harder to find as much around my area. My warning alarms went off that another little run may be happening with the political nightmare climate.
   Then - I had to stop by Sportsman's Warehouse and noticed they had a big stash of BE 86. A few days later I stopped by for something else and that stash was almost depleted, and all the other powders that previously had lower stocks seemed really picked. Alarms go off in my head again, and some panic as I thought about years past. Then my internal debate, "Hey, I actually don't mind 700x and need a powder to get power factor for USPSA. BE 86 seems to be liked by those who have used it, it produces good 9mm velocity, it can be used with other calibers like Unique (which also seems to be a favorite for many), and it is a good deal. I don't want to wait around for another powder and then not get anything.... I'll get it and have a good stash and be safe."
   So thanks to the fresh memory of the big shortage and some self induced fear, I too have a nice big jug of BE 86. I still don't have a chrono, but I'll share any findings and thoughts on the loads I test.
   
    @Reloader Fred - Have you shot yours yet? Any thoughts, recommendations, etc.?

   Anyone else have some experience and thoughts to share on this powder in 9mm?
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: ReloaderFred on August 20, 2016, 12:31:21 AM
Nope, I haven't had a chance to even crack the lid on my keg of BE-86.  I just got back from an out of state match and have been trying to catch up.  I've also been fighting the computer, since Outlook changed their e-mail program and I lost a bunch of data because of it.  Some 20 something computer nerd evidently thought I needed to have my life turned upside down..........  I've got a luncheon to put on Sept. 1st for a retirement group I chair, and the 200+ names on my mailing list suddenly disappeared.  On top of that, most of my calendar reminders are also gone!

But I digress.  I haven't had a chance to do any reloading for a couple of weeks, and the next few weeks are going to be really hectic, so I probably won't get much done for awhile.  I've got a meeting up at the state capitol tomorrow, so another day is shot, and then another trip out of state to spread my parents' ashes at sea with the family.

"Leisure years" are a myth, and don't let anyone tell you different........

Fred

PS:  I hate Bill Gates this week...!!
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on August 20, 2016, 01:19:53 AM
I'm a twenty something computer nerd and I HATE those auto updates windows has been doing! My work laptop was forced to Windows 10 and it's been months of monitors flickering out, audio ports not working, keyboards only connecting correcting through specific USB ports and not others, and on and on. I lost days at work getting everything running again. 

My condolences for your computer problems and my truest condolences for your parents and family.

Happy to wait the time to hear your feedback!
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Wobbly on August 20, 2016, 08:17:23 AM
My warning alarms went off that another little run may be happening with the political nightmare climate.


BE-86 might be the last thing on the shelf in that scenario, making it easy to find and a good-to-perfect fit for those in the know.

Having sat thru several of these already, I'm not looking forward to another.

 ;)
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on September 17, 2016, 04:11:08 PM
Shot through a work up of BE-86 today.

Load:
• Berry 124gr plated round nose
• Used Alliant load data for 125 gr lead round nose. It's 1 gr less than the 124 fmj data. The masters can correct me if I'm wrong for doing so.
• Following Alliant's instructions I dropped 10% and rounded so my starting load was 5.1 gr.

Reloading Thoughts:
It meters very very accurately. Had no problems with it binding up my powder drop. When my shell plate rotates sometimes HP-38 and long shot sort of jump out of the cases, it is only a few little pieces but it gets obnoxious. 700x doesn't seem to do this as much, like the flakes are their own shock absorbing system. BE-86 has had the very least of this happen. Basically on my Hornady AP press it's a dream to reload with.

Side Note:
Having just finished a grad program I am still in an apartment and load on a black and deck portable work bench. It has worked for a good while, but I feel like it isn't the rock solid bench most here use. The powder jumping out of cases may be partially/entirely related to my bench.

Shooting Thoughts:
I didn't have a chrono. I was shooting to practice seeing my sights and call my shots... so I paid attention to the cases, feeling recoil, watching  ejection patterns, etc.

1- Good thing they put stuff in this to reduce muzzle flash, otherwise it'd be a fireworks show. I noticed it the most at 5.1gr, so it may have been related to not getting an optimal burn.
2- Case expansion wasn't fully happening on a consistent basis until I reached the 5.3 gr loads.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160917/83c74c7cd5d5f62c8c248a86073d8a66.jpg)

3- Cleanliness wasn't something I checked yet since lower charges aren't always as clean (because they don't get the best burn efficiency). I'll take some pictures after each of the next outings when I shoot just one load for 100 rounds straight.
4- Recoil was what would be expected from a powder with this burn rate. If you focus on it and worry about it you'll feel it. If you have a steady grip and focus on the sights and targets the it'll be pretty normal.
6- Accuracy... I am not Joe L. Today I was really trying to call my shots by seeing my sights at a range of 25 yards. I wish I could afford having a Steve Anderson class where he teaches shooting groups because this is a weakness of mine at this slower pace (hard for me to keep a clear mind). Anyways, excuses aside. I was getting groups around 6 inches at 25 yards with 1 shot per second. This isn't a fault of the powder, I knew when I jerked the trigger and pulled the shot.

Conclusion:
I like the powder for the intended purpose I got it for. I always look forward to the feedback, questions, suggestions, etc from the members here. I'm always getting taken to school for a good teaching.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: robert1804 on September 17, 2016, 06:22:08 PM
 I'm a sucker for new reloading goodies, so I tried BE-86. Meters great and it's fairly clean burning. I've had good luck with various 9mm loads and it works best at near max load from the Alliant site. The real surprise was how good it is in .38 spc. +P loads, again at max listed load.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: SouperMan on September 20, 2016, 01:41:45 AM
These results are from my Glock 17 before I switched over to a CZ 75 SP-01 and VV N320.

I love the BE-86, but it took about 3.7gr on 147gr X-Tremes to make PF of about 131.

Tested on a ProChrono, and it was about 76F.

Name: 124gr RMR Match FP
Notes: BE-86, 4.7gr
CCI 500 SPP
1.10" OAL
Mixed Brass
Shots: 15
Average: 1045 FPS
SD: 14 FPS
Min: 1019 FPS
Max: 1070 FPS
Spread: 51 FPS
Power Factor Average: 130
Power Factor Low: 126
Power Factor High: 133
Bullet Weight: 124 grains
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: 1SOW on September 27, 2016, 03:45:17 PM
Likely,  he was using this from Alliant -10%?

9mm Luger   115 gr FMJ   Federal   1.12   4.  Fed 100   BE-86   6.1   1,219   
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Renron on November 16, 2016, 08:41:24 PM
My feeble contribution to the thread,
All bullets are RMR RN FMJ 124gr.
BE-86 powder
CCI Primers
COAL 1.125"
Warm day mid to high 80's
Shot from S&W M&P shield (carry gun) just picked up my P-01 today! ;)
Chrono ~10 feet away

Powder grains                 FPS
5.0                                986
                                   1007
                                   1003
                                   1032

5.2                               1019
                                   999
                                   1036
                                   1038

5.4                               1036
                                   1043
                                   1048
                                   1064

5.6                               1066
                                   1070
                                   1089
                                   1104


I didn't load hotter because I didn't know what this powder would be like. I have always used VV N320 before.
BE-86 burns almost as clean with low flash / no smoke. After testing I bought all the BE-86 the store had. $ is great! $21/lb.
The powder seems to slop out of the case a little during reloading, I'm at fault there. Overall I'm happy with it.
Ron
 
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on November 16, 2016, 10:27:54 PM
When I started using a chrono, I ran 5 shots per rung of the ladder.  I fairly quickly suspected that was not a significant enough sample size, so I ran some 20-round strings one day.  I cut each string in half, and compared the two ten-round sub-strings to each other and to the twenty round total string.  I then cut each half in half and did the same comparison with the 4 five-round strings.   From this simple test, it appeared there was significant precision to be gained from going up to ten rounds from five rounds, but there was not a significant gain going from 10 rounds up to 20 rounds per string.  Your 4-round strings over the chrono are not going to be particularly precise.  Wobbly has indicated that 8-round strings are a sufficient sampling size, and I think he's holding onto more math than I am, so I'm not saying 10 is the magic number, but 4 rounds is not going to tell you much.

Anyway, IF what you have is a precise enough representation of what those powder charges are doing with those bullets, you have:

5.0gr | 1007 ft/s | ES-46 |
5.2gr | 1023 ft/s | ES-39 | +16  ft/s
5.4gr | 1048 ft/s | ES-28 | +25  ft/s   
5.6gr | 1082 ft/s | ES-38 | +34  ft/s   

5.8gr is fair game by Alliant's data, but in their data you should be about 1170 at that charge, and you won't get there with 5.8gr according to the data we see here.  You might get 1120 with 5.8gr.



Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: K31Scout on November 17, 2016, 07:03:36 AM
When BE-86 first appeared, Alliant promoted it as Power Pistol with a flash suppressant.

In other words, the powders are the same, except for the flash suppressant added to BE-86.  The addition of the flash suppressant changes the burning characteristics somewhat, and changes the VMD of BE-86, so the different charge weights are no surprise.
However, they are the same powder, except for the flash suppressant in BE-86.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on November 17, 2016, 08:52:08 AM
When BE-86 first appeared, Alliant promoted it as Power Pistol with a flash suppressant.

In other words, the powders are the same, except for the flash suppressant added to BE-86. 

Sort of. ;)  Not exactly. 

Alliant didn't market BE-86 like this.  They actually brought it to market ahead of schedule under pressure of the powder shortage with NO marketing and NO data.  The idea that BE-86 was Power Pistol came from comments made by an Alliant rep named Paul, who responded several times in what became an extensive BE-86 thread at THR.  This Alliant guy Paul said that BE-86 was of the "same magic formulation" of Bullseye and Power Pistol, that its flakes were very close in geometry to Power Pistol, and that they had added a flash suppressant.  That's not the same as as it being Power Pistol plus flash suppressant, which was the internet hub-bub at the time.

To make sense of that "geometry" comment, as well as the "Bullseye AND Power Pistol" comparison, it helps to know something about burn rate.  Powder companies will often using the same formula, the exact same chemical compound, for different powders, but control the burn rate of the powder with different sizes or shapes of the powder particles.  Sometimes, coatings and additives will affect that burn rate, as well.  Basically, given the same chemical compound, the lower the mass is per unit surface area, the faster the burn rate.  Or more simply, the smaller the particle is, the faster it will burn up.  So you could have a series of pistol powders that employ the exact same chemical compound, but by way of an incremental increase in the particle size, have a range in the series from very fast burn rates to very slow burn rates with, again, the exact same chemical compound.  And then you could name them something like N310, N320, N330, N340, & N350.   O0

Anyway... this is apparently what is going on with BE-86.  It uses the same formula as Bullseye.  Power Pistol also uses the same formula as Bullseye.  According to Paul, BE-86 has been produced and used in factory ammunition for 30 years.  When Power Pistol was an OEM powder, its internal name was BE-84.  So it's not that BE-86 is based on Power Pistol.  It means they were both created from Bullseye in close succession.  I suspect that if BE-86 hadn't been rushed to market, it would have had a name other than its internal corporate name.  The BE in BE-84 and BE-86 obviously means "BullsEye" as they are both based on the ancient Bullseye formula.  So while it's more or less true to say that BE-86 is like Power Pistol, but with a slightly smaller flake size and with a flash suppressant added, it would also be more or less true to say that BE-86 is like Bullseye, but with a larger flake size and with a flash suppressant added.  ;)

I think the most accurate summary of what Alliant rep Paul said would be -- BE-86 is a Bullseye formula powder, as was Power Pistol, but close to the burn rate of Unique, and with a flash suppressant.

That Alliant rep Paul also revealed that BE-86 was the powder that Federal used in its .45 ACP 185gr JHP Gold Medal Match ammo, and Speer uses it in their .357 SIG Speer Gold Dot LE Duty ammo. 

There will be a quiz tomorrow. ;)

Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on November 17, 2016, 10:24:53 AM
There will be a quiz tomorrow. ;)

The wealth of knowledge is just too good! Thanks for all the info!

    Last night my wife and I were at the range. First time she has ever come to an indoor range and one of her unsolicited comments afterwards was about my powder (BE-86). She mentioned that the only other gentleman there was shooting a 9mm a few lanes over and was producing a large looking flash (pretty sure it was winchester white box stuff). She said that mine was a much smaller flash with a spark or two and asked why they were different. I think she was concerned I was shooting sissy loads because she later commented that his hands flew back way further than mine in recoil. I told her my powder has a flash suppressant so I don't have a large distracting flash. I also told her it was a pretty stout load, I wasn't running it light to make recoil easier.
    So, to a person who almost never goes shooting the BE-86 flash suppressant was making a big enough difference that she noticed without me telling her to look for it. Just a non-scientific observation.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Renron on November 17, 2016, 11:21:18 AM
So glad I found this thread, 
Lots of USEFUL information. Thanks to all for sharing.

When I chronoed my loads I had ~50 rnds of each, had I known better I would have had more data examples for a more precise sampling. I will next time. Thank you for letting me know.

Does anyone know if BE-86 is temperature sensitive like Titegroup? Sometimes I shoot in the snow and sometimes it's 110*.

"5.8gr is fair game by Alliant's data, but in their data you should be about 1170 at that charge, and you won't get there with 5.8gr according to the data we see here.  You might get 1120 with 5.8gr."

I was shooting a Shield which has a 3.1" barrel, wouldn't a longer barrel produce higher velocities? (not sarcastic)
Ron
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on November 17, 2016, 11:29:51 AM
I was shooting a Shield which has a 3.1" barrel, wouldn't a longer barrel produce higher velocities? (not sarcastic)


Yes, but whether or not it would make up the missing 50-ish ft/s I don't know.  There are always other factors in play, as well, when we're talking about data for general bullet types rather than specific makes and models, so it's not unreasonable to think you're at least near the ball park.  ;) 
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on November 17, 2016, 11:33:16 AM
Does anyone know if BE-86 is temperature sensitive like Titegroup? Sometimes I shoot in the snow and sometimes it's 110*.

With winter being here I can test it in the cold.... Won't have access to heat like that for a while. Utah can get chilly, so I'll try and run out on a cold winter night if one of the members from the really cold states doesn't get to it first.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on November 17, 2016, 11:35:32 AM

    So, to a person who almost never goes shooting the BE-86 flash suppressant was making a big enough difference that she noticed without me telling her to look for it. Just a non-scientific observation.


In one of the Alliant guy's comments, he said where Power Pistol makes a basketball sized muzzle flash, we should expect BE-86 to produce one the size of of a baseball.  A lot of it depends on ambient lighting.

Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on November 17, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
Does anyone know if BE-86 is temperature sensitive like Titegroup? Sometimes I shoot in the snow and sometimes it's 110*.

 so I'll try and run out on a cold winter night

If you want to check temp sensitivity -- two things.  First is that powders can be reverse sensitive, so unless you know for sure which way this one swings, you would be advised to use a starting load.

Second, shooting in cold temps isn't going to change much.  Igniting cold powder is what's going produce the difference, so if you want to do this, make 20 rounds with the same charge, leave ten of them in your car outside overnight, already loaded in a magazine so that you don't have to handle them with your warm hands, and keep 10 of them inside your house, already loaded in a magazine.  Then drive them out and shoot them, warm ammo first. 
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Renron on November 17, 2016, 12:15:07 PM
If you want to check temp sensitivity -- two things.  First is that powders can be reverse sensitive, so unless you know for sure which way this one swings, you would be advised to use a starting load.

Second, shooting in cold temps isn't going to change much.  Igniting cold powder is what's going produce the difference, so if you want to do this, make 20 rounds with the same charge, leave ten of them in your car outside overnight, already loaded in a magazine so that you don't have to handle them with your warm hands, and keep 10 of them inside your house, already loaded in a magazine.  Then drive them out and shoot them, warm ammo first.

This method would test only how cold effects BE-86. I will do this when it gets a little colder, 37* this morning. I will use warm "in house" loads as a control group and put another 20 rounds on the defroster / heater vent to warm past the control group temperature. I will check the case temps of all with an IR scanner. We are planning a family shoot day just after Thanksgiving. I will be more thorough with data accumulation.
Ron
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: painter on November 17, 2016, 12:25:31 PM
Don't forget, that even with an IR scan of the case, the powder inside might still be cold soaked even after the case warms up.

We see that frequently in the winter when shooting gallery league bullseye with 22's. Some of the shooters aren't able to bring their ammo inside at work. It usually causes cycling issues, which says to me the powder is cold sensitive.

Completely unscientific.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Renron on November 17, 2016, 12:46:31 PM
I'm open to better methodology. (not sarcastic)
The "range" where we shoot is ~1 hr. drive from home. Plenty of time for the defroster to heat 'em up.

If there is an excepted way to perform these tests, I'll do it. I'm just throwing out ideas and learning what NOT to do. :)
It would be nice to know if this powder is temp sensitive.
Ron
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on November 17, 2016, 12:55:48 PM
I'm open to better methodology. (not sarcastic)
The "range" where we shoot is ~1 hr. drive from home. Plenty of time for the defroster to heat 'em up.

If there is an excepted way to perform these tests, I'll do it. I'm just throwing out ideas and learning what NOT to do. :)
It would be nice to know if this powder is temp sensitive.
Ron

Accounting for all variables, if possible.
Test Group 1: Room temp
Test Group 2: Cold for a little while. Simulating having it sit out in really cold weather for a range session, or just do that... document how cold and how long it sat.
Test Group 3: Kept in cold environment for several hours (8 hrs in fridge?) and kept at that temp till shooting (cooler?).
Test Group 4: Really cold for several hours (8 hrs in freezer?) and kept at that temp till shooting (in ziploc bag with sealed ice packs surrounding in cooler?)

Extra thorough would possibly be having different charges. So in each temperature group sets of 8-10 of low middle and higher charge weights (in load data window) to run over the chrono. Those are the major variables I can think of. Might be more as the other guys are the real pro's.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: painter on November 17, 2016, 12:57:43 PM
The completely unscientific comment was regarding my observation of 22 ammo, not your experiment.

After an hour I'd expect them to be warmed all the way through also. Might be better if you took them out of the boxes.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on November 17, 2016, 01:49:20 PM
No one should get too carried away with testing.  All you can really answer is whether or not it's significantly temp sensitive, generally temp insensitive, or reverse sensitive.

Anyone who is going to shoot in a wide variety of temps would want to work up different loads at the temps they anticipate shooting so that they know what they have going on in their guns with their ammo.

Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: K31Scout on November 17, 2016, 06:26:34 PM
When BE-86 first appeared, Alliant promoted it as Power Pistol with a flash suppressant.

In other words, the powders are the same, except for the flash suppressant added to BE-86. 

Sort of. ;)  Not exactly. 

Alliant didn't market BE-86 like this.  They actually brought it to market ahead of schedule under pressure of the powder shortage with NO marketing and NO data.  The idea that BE-86 was Power Pistol came from comments made by an Alliant rep named Paul, who responded several times in what became an extensive BE-86 thread at THR.  This Alliant guy Paul said that BE-86 was of the "same magic formulation" of Bullseye and Power Pistol, that its flakes were very close in geometry to Power Pistol, and that they had added a flash suppressant.  That's not the same as as it being Power Pistol plus flash suppressant, which was the internet hub-bub at the time.

To make sense of that "geometry" comment, as well as the "Bullseye AND Power Pistol" comparison, it helps to know something about burn rate.  Powder companies will often using the same formula, the exact same chemical compound, for different powders, but control the burn rate of the powder with different sizes or shapes of the powder particles.  Sometimes, coatings and additives will affect that burn rate, as well.  Basically, given the same chemical compound, the lower the mass is per unit surface area, the faster the burn rate.  Or more simply, the smaller the particle is, the faster it will burn up.  So you could have a series of pistol powders that employ the exact same chemical compound, but by way of an incremental increase in the particle size, have a range in the series from very fast burn rates to very slow burn rates with, again, the exact same chemical compound.  And then you could name them something like N310, N320, N330, N340, & N350.   O0

Anyway... this is apparently what is going on with BE-86.  It uses the same formula as Bullseye.  Power Pistol also uses the same formula as Bullseye.  According to Paul, BE-86 has been produced and used in factory ammunition for 30 years.  When Power Pistol was an OEM powder, its internal name was BE-84.  So it's not that BE-86 is based on Power Pistol.  It means they were both created from Bullseye in close succession.  I suspect that if BE-86 hadn't been rushed to market, it would have had a name other than its internal corporate name.  The BE in BE-84 and BE-86 obviously means "BullsEye" as they are both based on the ancient Bullseye formula.  So while it's more or less true to say that BE-86 is like Power Pistol, but with a slightly smaller flake size and with a flash suppressant added, it would also be more or less true to say that BE-86 is like Bullseye, but with a larger flake size and with a flash suppressant added.  ;)

I think the most accurate summary of what Alliant rep Paul said would be -- BE-86 is a Bullseye formula powder, as was Power Pistol, but close to the burn rate of Unique, and with a flash suppressant.

That Alliant rep Paul also revealed that BE-86 was the powder that Federal used in its .45 ACP 185gr JHP Gold Medal Match ammo, and Speer uses it in their .357 SIG Speer Gold Dot LE Duty ammo. 

There will be a quiz tomorrow. ;)

Great info! I got caught in the hub bub. :) I'm going to try some in .44mag/.44Spl. and then 9mm, the only three handgun cartridges I load. Be nice to have a powder work in all three but would probably be compromising with one of them.   
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on November 17, 2016, 07:36:47 PM
Alliant doesn't list any .44 Special data for BE-86, but that same afore-mentioned Alliant guy Paul listed this:

7.7gr max standard pressure load for 200gr cast lead RNFP at OAL 1.145, so per Alliant standard load protocol, you would start at 6.9 and work up, with 7.7gr as your ceiling.


He also mentioned that Federal's only factory .44 Special load uses BE-86 with a 200gr cast lead SWC-HP.

I'd bet if you ask Alliant, they'll give you some .44 Special data, and we already know it's good for 9mm and .45ACP.  Alliant does list three .44 Magnum loads.

And, bleep it, now I want to buy some BE-86.  :P
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: 1SOW on November 17, 2016, 07:50:43 PM
Keep your test loads in a couple of those small 6-pack "coolers" until you're ready to shoot.
I like experiments.

Rechrono known loads in the winter.  Save the data. Ditto summer.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on November 18, 2016, 12:25:18 AM
Here is a pic of my target with those BE-86 loads last night. Keep in mind I'm not practicing for bullseye, this is for working on grip, shot calling and shooting sorta fast (splits around 0.5) at 15 yards and 25 yards for the group on the head. While doing that sort of shooting I knew fliers were my fault. This powder has produced exceptional accuracy for me in 9mm w 124gr Berry bullets. Hope it does so for everyone else's loads! BTW I posted about my range trip with pics of all the targets for all 100 rounds and explanations on the "sets" if anyone is wondering about them. That way this thread isn't derailed.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=84001.0

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161118/27aa4f39c6939135b6fe98aa83e2512c.jpg)
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Wobbly on October 09, 2017, 05:01:44 PM
Anyway, IF what you have is a precise enough representation of what those powder charges are doing with those bullets, you have:

5.0gr | 1007 ft/s | ES-46 |
5.2gr | 1023 ft/s | ES-39 | +16  ft/s
5.4gr | 1048 ft/s | ES-28 | +25  ft/s   
5.6gr | 1082 ft/s | ES-38 | +34  ft/s   

5.8gr is fair game by Alliant's data, but in their data you should be about 1170 at that charge, and you won't get there with 5.8gr according to the data we see here.  You might get 1120 with 5.8gr.

Based on the above info I loaded up PD 124gr JHP at 1.110" with 5.4 and 5.5gr. With 9 shots each
across a ProChrono and got 1123fps avg for 5.4 and 1135fps avg for 5.5gr.

70F and overcast. Perfect shooting and measurement conditions. Explain that !
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on October 09, 2017, 08:54:10 PM
Based on the above info I loaded up PD 124gr JHP at 1.110" with 5.4 and 5.5gr. With 9 shots each
across a ProChrono and got 1123fps avg for 5.4 and 1135fps avg for 5.5gr.

Explain that !

Well, the deeper seating depths typical of JHP tend to be worth 2-3 tenths of a grain of powder, though I suspect closer to 2 in this case with his shorter than average FMJ-RN OAL, plus you've got a full length barrel compared to his compact SHIELD barrel, so that's probably worth a tenth or two of powder in terms of velocity relative to his shorter barrel, probably closer to 2 with a slower powder, so in the context of HIS data with his compact pistol, I would expect your two loads to behave like they were at maybe 5.8 and 5.9, and...

let me see here...

5.8gr is fair game by Alliant's data, but in their data you should be about 1170 at that charge, and you won't get there with 5.8gr according to the data we see here.  You might get 1120 with 5.8gr.

So, yeah, pretty much spot on.    8)
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: ReloaderFred on October 10, 2017, 11:07:46 AM
I've tested it in a 10" barrel, but only for accuracy, and it proved accurate with the RMR 124 gr. JHP.  I didn't drag my chronograph to the range, but I guess I'll have to eventually.

Fred
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on October 10, 2017, 03:50:25 PM
Before Wobbly took it into his own hands, we had



So what you're saying is that in this entire 4 page thread, no one ever tested BE-86 with 124gr JHP bullets in a "full length" barrel ?

YUP!  ;)

I frequently try to turn the plated shooters onto 124gr JHP, so... not my fault. 

I'm pretty sure we can point the finger at Painter for this lapse.  ;)
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on October 10, 2017, 04:08:36 PM
So what you're saying is that in this entire 4 page thread, no one ever tested BE-86 with 124gr JHP bullets in a "full length" barrel ?


Haha I have the powder, just no 124 gr JHP bullets. Once I am done working my 10mm loads I can go find some and try this out. Any recommendations on good 124 JHP's to get?
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: 1SOW on October 11, 2017, 12:16:16 AM
PDs and Zeros do include shipping for their standard quantities.

I would suggest contacting PD and requesting maybe a test batch of 250 (?).  They used to oblige for new customers.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on October 11, 2017, 02:33:18 AM
For reference, from Montana Gold, 124gr JHP are 9 cents when you buy a case of 3750, and 26.5 cents per bullet by the 100.
 I'm not saying it will be that big of a swing, but be aware of the per bullet upcharge.
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: painter on October 11, 2017, 06:34:26 AM
I'm pretty sure we can point the finger at Painter for this lapse.  ;)


I'm not gonna take this lying down.

What's BE-86? ;D
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on October 12, 2017, 12:28:46 AM
Does anyone have any comparative data on the BE86 vs the Power Pistol? Is there a major difference in burn rate? Charge weights?


Power pistol is a little slower. Gives higher energy rounds.


[Quoted comment edited by Mods]
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Wobbly on October 13, 2017, 05:08:43 PM
OK, kids ! I had time to do a 50 round test today using BE-86, and I was very happy with the results.

Equipment
Bullets: Precision Delta 124gr JHP
Brass: Mixed
Powder: Alliant BE-86 (4.7gr to 5.1gr)
Primer: Federal Small Pistol
OAL: 1.110"
Pistol: SP-01 Tac
10 rounds each, slow fired
70F and highly overcast
ProChrono

Load      Avg Vel           SD
4.7             995              13
4.8           1033              11
4.9           1053              10
5.0           1071              14
5.1           1093              14

NOTES
- This powder burned remarkably clean, even at 4.7gr
- I attribute the low SD numbers to the powder and not my reloading technique
- I would recommend 4.9gr for competition and 4.9-5.0gr for general plinking
- At ~4.9gr the sights were aimed true for 50 foot targets
- I was also happy to fire 50 rounds and not hit my chrono.

Hope this helps.   ;)
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on October 13, 2017, 05:37:53 PM

Load      Avg Vel         Velocity +
4.7             995             
4.8           1033              +38
4.9           1053              +20
5.0           1071              +18
5.1           1093              +22


It looks like you start getting a good, timely pressure seal there at 4.8.  And just from what my own 75 ShadowLine does with 124gr bullets, I'm guessing 5.0 is a straight shooter.  Very interesting.   8)
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Wobbly on October 13, 2017, 06:53:49 PM
It looks like you start getting a good, timely pressure seal there at 4.8.  And just from what my own 75 ShadowLine does with 124gr bullets, I'm guessing 5.0 is a straight shooter.  Very interesting.   8)


The powder was burning so clean (even at 4.7gr) that no smut was left on the outside on any of the 50 fired cases. You may be right about the sealing. There may be blow-by, but there are no tell-tale indications on the brass.

Simply amazing. Not what I expected. I'm ordering more BE-86.

 ;)
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: 1SOW on October 13, 2017, 08:38:44 PM
That does look and sound good.
Curious:  How did the feed ramp, trigger bar and chamber look after firing 50?
"Are you ready"..... to quit n320? :o
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: copemech on October 13, 2017, 11:50:09 PM
9mm Luger 115 gr FMJ Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 BE-86 6.1 1,219 -
9mm Luger 124 gr FMJ federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 BE-86 5.8 1,167 -
9mm Luger 115 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 BE-86 6.3 1,238 -
9mm Luger 124 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 BE-86 5.9 1,175 -
9mm Luger 147 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 BE-86 5.1 1,020 -
9mm Luger 125 gr Lead RN Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 BE-86 5.7 1,179 -
9mm Luger 147 FP Federal 1.08 4 Fed 100 BE-86 4.7 999 -
9mm Luger Speer 115 gr CPRN Federal 1.135 4 CCI 500 BE-86 6.3 1,226 -
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: IDescribe on October 14, 2017, 01:45:36 AM

- At ~4.9gr the sights were aimed true for 50 foot targets


So 4.9 was right for lining up POA and POI.   How did you feel about accuracy, in general?  Not looking for measurements, just your impression.  I know you know how your groups generally look.  ;)
Title: Re: 9mm and Alliant BE86
Post by: Wobbly on October 14, 2017, 09:46:03 AM
Answers....

• I did have a target on the far side of the chrono, just to make sure the chrono wasn't hit. I was also using a bench rest with the heel of the pistol resting on a sheet of some very dense foam. You can definitely see 5 distinct groups climbing the target. However, I don't want to call one load better than the other because I wasn't "shooting for accuracy".

• Also I did not clean my gun before starting, so I cannot comment on cleanliness other than to say it looked no worse. I have another batch of 50 worked up, and that will be a good thing to test.

• No, I'm not giving up on N320 or N330. But these newer powders (BE-86 and probably the new ones from IMR) will give VihtaVuori a run for their money. VV will either need to drop their prices to sell in the US or go home. Some product lines (like cars and liquors) can demand a higher price simply based on their name. I'm not sure you can pull that off in reloading, mainly because (unlike cars) most people start reloading to save money.

Of course, I've been wrong before. Just like Lexus rising to the price of a BMW, powders like BE-86 could always collect their own "snob appeal" and rise to the price level of the VV product line !!  :P

And of course, that's what we need in competitive shooting. People walking around with their nose stuck up in the air with a patch on their shirt that says "Don't even talk to me unless you're loading XXXX powder". Yikes !

 ;)
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: Wobbly on April 23, 2020, 04:49:41 PM
Discovered I had a pile of FMJ 9mm 115gr sitting around in my cabinet left from ~2001 and my push during this Social Distancing period has been to clean up and organize... which means go ahead and finish off small lots of bullets and powder...

And I got a brand new can of BE-86... so what's a fellow to do ??  ;D

Equipment
Bullets:  Winchester 115gr FMJ
Brass:    RWS
Powder: Alliant BE-86 (6.1gr Max)
Max Vel:   1219 fps
Primer: Winchester SPP
OAL:     1.125"
Pistol:   SP-01 Tac
8 rounds each, slow fired
68F and highly overcast
ProChrono DLX


Load      Avg Vel            ES       SD
4.2             917              40       13
4.3             935              26       11
4.4             946              47       16
4.5             964              40       15
4.6            1018             34       13
4.7            1032             34       11


Notes
- This powder burned remarkably clean, even at 4.2gr
- All loads operated my slide, but brass never got more than 4 ft away with 14# spring
- Good SD numbers even though the humidity was 75% in my basement and there could have been 'clumping'
- I would recommend something higher than 4.7gr for competition and 4.6/4.7gr for general plinking
- At ~4.7gr the sights were aimed true for 50 foot targets
- This test never approached the Max Load despite using an OAL shorter than that listed. More testing is definitely needed at 115gr.

(https://i.imgur.com/o4UT59f.jpg)

Hope this helps.   ;)
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: Wobbly on April 24, 2020, 02:05:22 PM
This test adds higher loads to complete the testing done yesterday. It still comes nowhere near Alliant's Max Load velocity.

Equipment
Bullets:     Winchester 115gr FMJ
Brass:       RWS
Powder:    Alliant BE-86 (6.1gr Max)
Max Vel:   1219 fps
Primer:     Winchester SPP
OAL:         1.125"
Pistol:       SP-01 Tac
8 rounds each, slow fired
68F and highly overcast
ProChrono DLX


Load      Avg Vel            ES       SD
4.2             917              40       13
4.3             935              26       11
4.4             946              47       16
4.5             964              40       15
4.6            1018             34       13
4.7            1032             34       11
4.8            1046             43       13
4.9            1066             31       09
5.0            1081             19       06
5.1            1115             11       09


Notes
- This powder burned remarkably clean, even at 4.2gr
- All loads operated my slide, and brass got between 2-6 ft away with 14# spring
- Good SD numbers even though the humidity was 75% in my basement and there could have been 'clumping'
- I would recommend something higher than 4.7gr for competition and 4.6/4.7gr for general plinking
- At ~4.7gr the sights were aimed true for 50 foot targets
- This test never approached the Max Load despite using an OAL shorter than listed

(https://i.imgur.com/WoiFSYf.jpg)
This powder is extremely clean shooting
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: painter on April 24, 2020, 02:37:45 PM
How does your barrel length compare to the test barrel?

The SD and ES look good.
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: Moe Mentum on April 24, 2020, 05:33:14 PM
I use BE86 under a precision delta 124 jhp,  I load with 5.0 grains, it's a nice target load.
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: Gnnut2 on April 25, 2020, 03:25:16 PM
Wobbly, that's another good example of the value of using a chronograph when working up loads. I'm amazed at how far above the max load you were and apparently you still had room to continue had you wanted to. How full was the case at 5.1 grains? I'm going to keep this load on my list too. Thank you for continuing to post great data for us to consider.
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: Wobbly on April 26, 2020, 04:46:02 PM
We need some testing done with Lead !!

Equipment
Bullets:      Acme 124gr LRN coated
Brass:        Federal Cartridge (F.C.)
Powder:     Alliant BE-86 (5.7gr max)
Max Vel:    1179 fps
Primer:      Federal Small Pistol Match #GM100M
OAL:         1.120"
Pistol:       SP-01 Tac
8 rounds each, slow fired
68F, clear and bright sun
ProChrono DLX

Load      Avg Vel           ES         SD
5.1           1097              41         15
5.2           1127              54         16
5.3           1150              20         08 *
5.4           1153              41         13
5.5           1161              30         09
5.6           1166              36         12
5.7        *** Shots Not Taken ***

Notes
- Testing suspended at 5.6 because there were velocities at 1190 with 5.6gr
- * Only 3 shots registered skewing the results. They are probably closer to 1140 fps with a higher SD. 5.3gr is not a magic node.
- Used load data from Alliant, which lists only a Max Load
- Shots were smokier than expected considering thick coating and cooler powder
- Overall accuracy was good
- All shots operated my SP-01 slide with 14# recoil spring. No FTF noted.
- Probably should test at lower loads. Testing down to ~4.7 for plinking needs.
- As tested, this is not a good plinking powder for Lead due to excessive powder requirements and higher than needed velocities.

Hope this helps.   ;)

Examples....
(https://i.imgur.com/gUA0Mrt.jpg)

Same clean shooting BE-86, even with lead...
(https://i.imgur.com/Z8qdGeh.jpg)
.
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: Wobbly on June 04, 2020, 02:47:18 PM
Equipment
Bullets:      Rocky Mntn Reloading (RMR) 147gr Match Winner TCFP
Brass:        Federal Cartridge (F.C.)
Powder:     Alliant BE-86 (4.7gr max)
Max Vel:    999 fps
Primer:      Winchester WSP
OAL:         1.110"
Pistol:       SP-01 Tac
10 rounds each, slow fired
80F, clear and bright sun
ProChrono DLX

Load      Avg Vel           ES         SD
4.5             970              23         07
4.6             977              34         12
4.7 *          998              38         10
4.8           1018              42         12  Over Max Load

Notes
- Testing done to find a 1000fps load with 147gr to emulate Federal 147gr SD loads
- Used load data from Alliant, which lists only a Max Load
- No smoke noted
- Overall accuracy was good
- All shots operated my SP-01 slide with stock recoil spring. No FTF noted.
- As tested, this is a great powder for home made SD loads
- Cases thrown about 6 feet
- I have chosen 4.7gr for use in my load

Test about to begin...
(https://i.imgur.com/Z3KI32U.jpg?1)

The ammo...
(https://i.imgur.com/603dxsj.jpg?1)

Look how clean these cases come out !
(https://i.imgur.com/q6F4zf6.jpg?1)


Hope this helps.   ;)
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: greenbastard on December 15, 2020, 02:35:20 PM
Discovered I had a pile of FMJ 9mm 115gr sitting around in my cabinet left from ~2001 and my push during this Social Distancing period has been to clean up and organize... which means go ahead and finish off small lots of bullets and powder...

And I got a brand new can of BE-86... so what's a fellow to do ??  ;D


I apologize for responding to such an old post, but it's so closely related to my situation and I wasn't sure how to word it correctly in a new post. Hopefully I haven't broken any member etiquette or rules.
First thank you for supplying such detailed data in your post. I have been away from loading pistol rounds for a few months as I've been shooting my previously loaded rounds and trying to perfect my loading skills for several different rifle rounds. Because I have 5-lbs. of BE-86 and 3K of 115gr. FMJ projectiles and ready to start loading for 9mm again, I found your post to be very appropriate to my situation. I hope you don't mind me asking questions regarding your data. It may turn out that I have missed something in my research.
In the above older post you wrote:

Bullets:  Winchester 115gr FMJ
Brass:    RWS
Powder: Alliant BE-86 (4.8gr Max)
Max Vel:   1164
OAL:     1.125"

My question concerns the "Alliant BE-86 (4.8gr Max)" that you listed. The Alliant powder chart lists a load for a 115gr. Federal FMC loaded at an OAL of 1.120" and a max of 6.1gr of BE-86. I always thought that the FMC is pretty much equivalent to an FMJ, but I may be wrong and hence part of my question. If the two bullets are closely matched and your OAL of 1.125" is .005" longer, can I ask where the 4.8gr Max is from. I am worried that  I am possibly misreading something or that the printed Alliant data is wrong so I would rather ask than be sorry later.

To add to my confusion, someone responded to your post a day later with:  "Wobbly, that's another good example of the value of using a chronograph when working up loads. I'm amazed at how far above the max load you were and apparently you still had room to continue had you wanted to".

This seems to also suggest that the Alliant data is either wrong or I am using the wrong comparison by choosing the data for the  115gr Federal FMC, but I can't find another projectile on the Alliant chart that matches your 115gr FMJ and BE-86. Did you perhaps get your 4.8gr. Max from another source that I haven't been able to locate?

Again I apologize for responding to an older post and also for all the questions. Thank you Sir.
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: Wobbly on December 16, 2020, 08:57:35 AM
Absolutely no apologies needed. And thanks for the question.

In reviewing this, you indeed are correct.  I seemed to have really screwed up. My apologies to you. Here's the latest Alliant data....

(https://i.imgur.com/8zltBvb.gif)

So you are indeed correct. Max load for 115gr Jacketed is 6.1gr, 1219fps with OAL of 1.120". Looking at my data and this is like day and night. It's not a small oversight, it's huge. So big, I'm at a loss to even begin to explain how this happened.

Good catch ! I'm going to go back and correct this. Thank you for pointing this out.


Your official CZ Forum Certificate of Merit and adhesive gold star are in the mail.
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: M1A4ME on December 16, 2020, 12:31:23 PM
BE86 is my next "hope" for the M&P 9MM.  Didn't work out in the FNS or M&P FS .40's with the 180's (most likely my sense of good groups as the CZ's have spoiled me.  Bought a lb. of it and AA#7 for the M&P 9MM and then used both on the .40's first (never pass up an opportunity to load ammo.)

I've got some 124 grain hollow point Hornady and Everglades bullets to try out. 

Funny how a thread you've paid little attention to suddenly becomes more important when things change for some reason.
Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: greenbastard on December 16, 2020, 08:02:59 PM
Absolutely no apologies needed. And thanks for the question.

In reviewing this, you indeed are correct.  I seemed to have really screwed up. My apologies to you. Here's the latest Alliant data....

(https://i.imgur.com/8zltBvb.gif)

So you are indeed correct. Max load for 115gr Jacketed is 6.1gr, 1219fps with OAL of 1.120". Looking at my data and this is like day and night. It's not a small oversight, it's huge. So big, I'm at a loss to even begin to explain how this happened.

Good catch ! I'm going to go back and correct this. Thank you for pointing this out.


Your official CZ Forum Certificate of Merit and adhesive gold star are in the mail.


Wobbly,
Thank you for clearing it up for me. I'm glad that my due diligence paid off for a change. Now I can start using up some of the BE-86 and from what I have read in your posts as well as a bunch of others it seems to be a great powder for the 9mm. I doubt that I will need to come close to the 6.3gr max, but it's nice to know that it has such a wide spread of charges.

Thanks again for your assistance and the kind words. I haven't felt this proud since I was pinned with the Air Force Good Conduct Medal. Lol  :)


Title: Re: Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)
Post by: Auslander on January 04, 2022, 08:29:28 PM
With powder supplies still being tight, most everyone is having to experiment to develop replacements for their pet loads.  In my case, I happened upon a 8# container of Alliant BE-86.  On this site, I've seen some data in regards to lighter projectiles with 9mm & BE-86.  Figured I'd share.  With 147gn projectiles, I like to stay around 50 FPS lower in my practice loads than the 147gn Federal HST load I carry.  Similar recoil and cadence.  I'll probably drop down 1/10th of a grain.  HST data is included at the bottom.   

I found that the BE-86 meters very consistently in my Dillion powder measure, but found I have to throw more test charges when dialing in the equipment.  With VV and the Winchester powders I've been using, I normally have to throw 5-6 charges between adjustments for the measure to settle in.  For one reason or another the BE-86 seemed to take about 10 test charges before they settled down.  Seems to burn clean but pressure/velocity jumps quickly as you begin to fill the case.  I ran some 4.7gn loads.  The first few were all over the place and when I had one register at 1045fps, I stopped and pulled those apart.  4.5gn is about as hot as I want to tempt.

In my experience, the Berry's and X-Treme 147gn heavy plate projectiles perform very close to one another so I began with X-Treme's load.  Worked up from there.  Overall, I like the powder in 9mm.   

9mm Luger (Alliant Data)                       
Projectile   Powder   Primer   OAL   Grains   Velocity   10% reduction   Theoretical  VEL   
115-gr Federal FMC   BE-86   Fed. 100   1.120   6.1   1219   5.5   1097.1   
115-gr Federal JHP   BE-86   Fed. 100   1.120   6.3   1238   5.7   1114.2   
124-gr Federal FMC   BE-86   Fed. 100   1.120   5.8   1167   5.2   1050.3   
124-gr Federal JHP   BE-86   Fed. 100   1.120   5.9   1175   5.3   1057.5   
125-gr Cast RN   BE-86   Fed. 100   1.120   5.7   1179   5.1   1061.1   
147-gr Federal JHP   BE-86   Fed. 100   1.120   5.1   1020   4.6   918   
147-gr FP Federal   BE-86   Fed. 100   1.080   4.7   999   4.2   899.1   
                       
X-Treme Data                       
124-gr FMJ   BE-86      1.14   5.6   1170   N/A     
124-gr HPCB RN   BE-86      1.15   4.7   1052   N/A     
147-gr HPCB RN   BE-86      1.15   3.9   896   N/A     
147-gr RN   BE-86      1.15   3.9   907   N/A     
                       
Weapon:  CZ75BD                       
Powder:  Alliant BE-86                       
Case:  Federal 9mm                       
Primer:  CCI 500                       
Projectile:  Berrys 147gn RN                       
OAL:  1.150+/-                       
                       
                       
Name   4.5gn BE-86 (61F)                     
Notes   N/A                     
Number of Shots   10                     
Extreme Spread   17                     
Average   980                     
Standard Deviation   6                     
Power Factor Average   144                     
Power Factor Low   142                     
Power Factor High   145                     
                       
Shot List   Index   Velocity   Temperature   Barometric Pressure   Bullet Weight   Ft/lbs   Power Factor   Date
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   1   983   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   315.38   145   12/31/2021 14:43
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   2   979   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   312.82   144   12/31/2021 14:43
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   3   979   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   312.82   144   12/31/2021 14:45
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   4   972   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   308.36   143   12/31/2021 14:46
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   5   973   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   308.99   143   12/31/2021 14:46
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   6   988   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   318.59   145   12/31/2021 14:46
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   7   976   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   310.9   143   12/31/2021 14:46
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   8   989   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   319.24   145   12/31/2021 14:46
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   9   987   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   317.95   145   12/31/2021 14:47
4.5gn BE-86 (61F)   10   979   61F   30.0 in Hg   147   312.82   144   12/31/2021 14:47
                       
Name   4.5gn BE-86 (43F)                     
Notes   N/A                     
Number of Shots   10                     
Extreme Spread   53                     
Average   973                     
Standard Deviation   15                     
Power Factor Average   143                     
Power Factor Low   138                     
Power Factor High   146                     
                       
Shot List   Index   Velocity   Temperature   Barometric Pressure   Bullet Weight   Ft/lbs   Power Factor   Date
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   1   970   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   307.09   143   12/25/2021 15:30
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   2   973   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   308.99   143   12/25/2021 15:31
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   3   978   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   312.18   144   12/25/2021 15:31
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   4   985   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   316.66   145   12/25/2021 15:31
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   5   998   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   325.08   147   12/25/2021 15:31
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   6   979   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   312.82   144   12/25/2021 15:31
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   7   952   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   295.8   140   12/25/2021 15:32
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   8   981   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   314.1   144   12/25/2021 15:32
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   9   945   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   291.47   139   12/25/2021 15:33
4.5gn BE-86 (43F)   10   977   43F   30.3 in Hg   147   311.54   144   12/25/2021 15:33
                       
Name   4.3gn BE-86                     
Notes   N/A                     
Number of Shots   10                     
Extreme Spread   27                     
Average   916                     
Standard Deviation   9                     
Power Factor Average   134                     
Power Factor Low   132                     
Power Factor High   136                     
                       
Shot List   Index   Velocity   Temperature   Barometric Pressure   Bullet Weight   Ft/lbs   Power Factor   Date
4.3gn BE-86   1   901   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   264.96   132   12/23/2021 13:56
4.3gn BE-86   2   924   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   278.66   136   12/23/2021 13:56
4.3gn BE-86   3   927   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   280.47   136   12/23/2021 13:56
4.3gn BE-86   4   913   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   272.06   134   12/23/2021 13:56
4.3gn BE-86   5   913   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   272.06   134   12/23/2021 13:56
4.3gn BE-86   6   917   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   274.45   135   12/23/2021 13:56
4.3gn BE-86   7   925   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   279.26   136   12/23/2021 13:57
4.3gn BE-86   8   900   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   264.37   132   12/23/2021 13:57
4.3gn BE-86   9   917   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   274.45   135   12/23/2021 13:57
4.3gn BE-86   10   923   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   278.05   136   12/23/2021 13:57
                       
Name   4.1gn BE-86                     
Notes   N/A                     
Number of Shots   10                     
Extreme Spread   51                     
Average   881                     
Standard Deviation   14                     
Power Factor Average   129                     
Power Factor Low   125                     
Power Factor High   132                     
                       
Shot List   Index   Velocity   Temperature   Barometric Pressure   Bullet Weight   Ft/lbs   Power Factor   Date
4.1gn BE-86   1   852   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   236.92   125   12/23/2021 13:53
4.1gn BE-86   2   881   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   253.32   130   12/23/2021 13:53
4.1gn BE-86   3   892   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   259.69   131   12/23/2021 13:53
4.1gn BE-86   4   884   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   255.05   130   12/23/2021 13:53
4.1gn BE-86   5   903   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   266.13   133   12/23/2021 13:53
4.1gn BE-86   6   877   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   251.03   129   12/23/2021 13:54
4.1gn BE-86   7   882   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   253.9   130   12/23/2021 13:54
4.1gn BE-86   8   879   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   252.17   129   12/23/2021 13:54
4.1gn BE-86   9   871   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   247.61   128   12/23/2021 13:54
4.1gn BE-86   10   897   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   262.61   132   12/23/2021 13:54
                       
Name   3.9gn BE-86                     
Notes   N/A                     
Number of Shots   10                     
Extreme Spread   54                     
Average   861                     
Standard Deviation   18                     
Power Factor Average   126                     
Power Factor Low   123                     
Power Factor High   131                     
                       
Shot List   Index   Velocity   Temperature   Barometric Pressure   Bullet Weight   Ft/lbs   Power Factor   Date
3.9gn BE-86   1   843   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   231.94   124   12/23/2021 13:50
3.9gn BE-86   2   895   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   261.44   132   12/23/2021 13:50
3.9gn BE-86   3   892   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   259.69   131   12/23/2021 13:50
3.9gn BE-86   4   846   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   233.6   124   12/23/2021 13:50
3.9gn BE-86   5   874   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   249.31   128   12/23/2021 13:51
3.9gn BE-86   6   852   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   236.92   125   12/23/2021 13:51
3.9gn BE-86   7   858   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   240.27   126   12/23/2021 13:51
3.9gn BE-86   8   853   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   237.48   125   12/23/2021 13:51
3.9gn BE-86   9   841   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   230.84   124   12/23/2021 13:51
3.9gn BE-86   10   857   42F   30.3 in Hg   147   239.71   126   12/23/2021 13:51
                       
Name   Federal 147gn HST                     
Notes   CZ-75BD                     
Number of Shots   10                     
Extreme Spread   49                     
Average   1004                     
Standard Deviation   15                     
Power Factor Average   147                     
Power Factor Low   143                     
Power Factor High   150                     
                       
Shot List   Index   Velocity   Temperature   Barometric Pressure   Bullet Weight   Ft/lbs   Power Factor   Date
Federal 147gn HST   1   1020   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   339.57   150   8/1/2021 12:46
Federal 147gn HST   2   1002   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   327.69   147   8/1/2021 12:46
Federal 147gn HST   3   1006   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   330.31   148   8/1/2021 12:46
Federal 147gn HST   4   1022   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   340.9   150   8/1/2021 12:47
Federal 147gn HST   5   1018   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   338.24   150   8/1/2021 12:47
Federal 147gn HST   6   994   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   322.48   146   8/1/2021 12:47
Federal 147gn HST   7   1016   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   336.91   149   8/1/2021 12:47
Federal 147gn HST   8   1006   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   330.31   148   8/1/2021 12:47
Federal 147gn HST   9   973   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   308.99   143   8/1/2021 12:47
Federal 147gn HST   10   990   77F   29.9 in Hg   147   319.89   146   8/1/2021 12:47