Load Testing: Alliant BE86 (BE-86)

[IDescribe]

No one should get too carried away with testing.  All you can really answer is whether or not it's significantly temp sensitive, generally temp insensitive, or reverse sensitive.

Anyone who is going to shoot in a wide variety of temps would want to work up different loads at the temps they anticipate shooting so that they know what they have going on in their guns with their ammo.

[K31Scout]

When BE-86 first appeared, Alliant promoted it as Power Pistol with a flash suppressant.

In other words, the powders are the same, except for the flash suppressant added to BE-86. 

Sort of.   Not exactly. 

Alliant didn't market BE-86 like this.  They actually brought it to market ahead of schedule under pressure of the powder shortage with NO marketing and NO data.  The idea that BE-86 was Power Pistol came from comments made by an Alliant rep named Paul, who responded several times in what became an extensive BE-86 thread at THR.  This Alliant guy Paul said that BE-86 was of the "same magic formulation" of Bullseye and Power Pistol, that its flakes were very close in geometry to Power Pistol, and that they had added a flash suppressant.  That's not the same as as it being Power Pistol plus flash suppressant, which was the internet hub-bub at the time.

To make sense of that "geometry" comment, as well as the "Bullseye AND Power Pistol" comparison, it helps to know something about burn rate.  Powder companies will often using the same formula, the exact same chemical compound, for different powders, but control the burn rate of the powder with different sizes or shapes of the powder particles.  Sometimes, coatings and additives will affect that burn rate, as well.  Basically, given the same chemical compound, the lower the mass is per unit surface area, the faster the burn rate.  Or more simply, the smaller the particle is, the faster it will burn up.  So you could have a series of pistol powders that employ the exact same chemical compound, but by way of an incremental increase in the particle size, have a range in the series from very fast burn rates to very slow burn rates with, again, the exact same chemical compound.  And then you could name them something like N310, N320, N330, N340, & N350.   

Anyway... this is apparently what is going on with BE-86.  It uses the same formula as Bullseye.  Power Pistol also uses the same formula as Bullseye.  According to Paul, BE-86 has been produced and used in factory ammunition for 30 years.  When Power Pistol was an OEM powder, its internal name was BE-84.  So it's not that BE-86 is based on Power Pistol.  It means they were both created from Bullseye in close succession.  I suspect that if BE-86 hadn't been rushed to market, it would have had a name other than its internal corporate name.  The BE in BE-84 and BE-86 obviously means "BullsEye" as they are both based on the ancient Bullseye formula.  So while it's more or less true to say that BE-86 is like Power Pistol, but with a slightly smaller flake size and with a flash suppressant added, it would also be more or less true to say that BE-86 is like Bullseye, but with a larger flake size and with a flash suppressant added. 

I think the most accurate summary of what Alliant rep Paul said would be -- BE-86 is a Bullseye formula powder, as was Power Pistol, but close to the burn rate of Unique, and with a flash suppressant.

That Alliant rep Paul also revealed that BE-86 was the powder that Federal used in its .45 ACP 185gr JHP Gold Medal Match ammo, and Speer uses it in their .357 SIG Speer Gold Dot LE Duty ammo. 

There will be a quiz tomorrow.

Great info! I got caught in the hub bub. I'm going to try some in .44mag/.44Spl. and then 9mm, the only three handgun cartridges I load. Be nice to have a powder work in all three but would probably be compromising with one of them.   

[IDescribe]

Alliant doesn't list any .44 Special data for BE-86, but that same afore-mentioned Alliant guy Paul listed this:

7.7gr max standard pressure load for 200gr cast lead RNFP at OAL 1.145, so per Alliant standard load protocol, you would start at 6.9 and work up, with 7.7gr as your ceiling.


He also mentioned that Federal's only factory .44 Special load uses BE-86 with a 200gr cast lead SWC-HP.

I'd bet if you ask Alliant, they'll give you some .44 Special data, and we already know it's good for 9mm and .45ACP.  Alliant does list three .44 Magnum loads.

And, bleep it, now I want to buy some BE-86. 

[1SOW]

Keep your test loads in a couple of those small 6-pack "coolers" until you're ready to shoot.
I like experiments.

Rechrono known loads in the winter.  Save the data. Ditto summer.

[Scarlett Pistol]

Here is a pic of my target with those BE-86 loads last night. Keep in mind I'm not practicing for bullseye, this is for working on grip, shot calling and shooting sorta fast (splits around 0.5) at 15 yards and 25 yards for the group on the head. While doing that sort of shooting I knew fliers were my fault. This powder has produced exceptional accuracy for me in 9mm w 124gr Berry bullets. Hope it does so for everyone else's loads! BTW I posted about my range trip with pics of all the targets for all 100 rounds and explanations on the "sets" if anyone is wondering about them. That way this thread isn't derailed.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=84001.0

[Wobbly]

Anyway, IF what you have is a precise enough representation of what those powder charges are doing with those bullets, you have:

5.0gr | 1007 ft/s | ES-46 |
5.2gr | 1023 ft/s | ES-39 | +16  ft/s
5.4gr | 1048 ft/s | ES-28 | +25  ft/s   
5.6gr | 1082 ft/s | ES-38 | +34  ft/s   

5.8gr is fair game by Alliant's data, but in their data you should be about 1170 at that charge, and you won't get there with 5.8gr according to the data we see here.  You might get 1120 with 5.8gr.

Based on the above info I loaded up PD 124gr JHP at 1.110" with 5.4 and 5.5gr. With 9 shots each
across a ProChrono and got 1123fps avg for 5.4 and 1135fps avg for 5.5gr.

70F and overcast. Perfect shooting and measurement conditions. Explain that !

[IDescribe]

Based on the above info I loaded up PD 124gr JHP at 1.110" with 5.4 and 5.5gr. With 9 shots each
across a ProChrono and got 1123fps avg for 5.4 and 1135fps avg for 5.5gr.

Explain that !

Well, the deeper seating depths typical of JHP tend to be worth 2-3 tenths of a grain of powder, though I suspect closer to 2 in this case with his shorter than average FMJ-RN OAL, plus you've got a full length barrel compared to his compact SHIELD barrel, so that's probably worth a tenth or two of powder in terms of velocity relative to his shorter barrel, probably closer to 2 with a slower powder, so in the context of HIS data with his compact pistol, I would expect your two loads to behave like they were at maybe 5.8 and 5.9, and...

let me see here...

5.8gr is fair game by Alliant's data, but in their data you should be about 1170 at that charge, and you won't get there with 5.8gr according to the data we see here.  You might get 1120 with 5.8gr.

So, yeah, pretty much spot on.   

[ReloaderFred]

I've tested it in a 10" barrel, but only for accuracy, and it proved accurate with the RMR 124 gr. JHP.  I didn't drag my chronograph to the range, but I guess I'll have to eventually.

Fred

[IDescribe]

Before Wobbly took it into his own hands, we had

• Berry's 124gr RN plated
• XTreme 147gr plated
• RMR 124gr Match FP plated
• Unknown 115gr JHP
• RMR 124gr FMJ-RN

So what you're saying is that in this entire 4 page thread, no one ever tested BE-86 with 124gr JHP bullets in a "full length" barrel ?

YUP! 

I frequently try to turn the plated shooters onto 124gr JHP, so... not my fault. 

I'm pretty sure we can point the finger at Painter for this lapse. 

[Scarlett Pistol]

So what you're saying is that in this entire 4 page thread, no one ever tested BE-86 with 124gr JHP bullets in a "full length" barrel ?

Haha I have the powder, just no 124 gr JHP bullets. Once I am done working my 10mm loads I can go find some and try this out. Any recommendations on good 124 JHP's to get?

[1SOW]

PDs and Zeros do include shipping for their standard quantities.

I would suggest contacting PD and requesting maybe a test batch of 250 (?).  They used to oblige for new customers.

[IDescribe]

For reference, from Montana Gold, 124gr JHP are 9 cents when you buy a case of 3750, and 26.5 cents per bullet by the 100.
 I'm not saying it will be that big of a swing, but be aware of the per bullet upcharge.

[painter]

I'm pretty sure we can point the finger at Painter for this lapse. 

I'm not gonna take this lying down.

What's BE-86?

[Scarlett Pistol]

Does anyone have any comparative data on the BE86 vs the Power Pistol? Is there a major difference in burn rate? Charge weights?

Power pistol is a little slower. Gives higher energy rounds.


[Quoted comment edited by Mods]

[Wobbly]

OK, kids ! I had time to do a 50 round test today using BE-86, and I was very happy with the results.

Equipment
Bullets: Precision Delta 124gr JHP
Brass: Mixed
Powder: Alliant BE-86 (4.7gr to 5.1gr)
Primer: Federal Small Pistol
OAL: 1.110"
Pistol: SP-01 Tac
10 rounds each, slow fired
70F and highly overcast
ProChrono

Load      Avg Vel           SD
4.7             995              13
4.8           1033              11
4.9           1053              10
5.0           1071              14
5.1           1093              14

NOTES
- This powder burned remarkably clean, even at 4.7gr
- I attribute the low SD numbers to the powder and not my reloading technique
- I would recommend 4.9gr for competition and 4.9-5.0gr for general plinking
- At ~4.9gr the sights were aimed true for 50 foot targets
- I was also happy to fire 50 rounds and not hit my chrono.

Hope this helps.