The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: copemech on July 31, 2016, 01:55:25 AM
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So I take an hour in the late day heat to burn a few rounds at the range. Today was P-09 long range with some of my handloaded 124 PD and a box of Freedom Munitions 124 HP with Xtreme HP. The Freedom was all reloaded with plated Speer cases which I presume were a batch of police range rounds. I got several boxes that way.
I thought these were premium brass cases?
I only had an hour, and three guns to shoot, so I only ran about 20 rounds each of my 9mm. What surprised me was out of onlt twenty rounds of the Freedom that I fired, I found, strictly by chance, TWO split cases!
The first was split halfway down. I did not think too much about it. The second was split about 3/4 the way!
I had saved a lot of that brass from prior outings, but now I am wondering? :-\
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Nickel plated brass is more brittle than un-plated. I wouldn't think that they'd fail after one reload. I wonder if Freedom's process over stresses them?
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I constantly read about failures with Freedom ammo. Is it that frequent, or do they sell so much of it that it's just the law of averages catching up with them? I have a buddy that swears by it for 3 gun, no way I would trust it in a rapid fire situation.
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With Speer 124 Gold Dots, I load and shoot them in Speer nickel plated cases. With Hornady 124 XTPs, I load and shoot in Hornady nickel plated cases.
I don't shoot a lot of these, but they're loaded to get bullet manufacturer standard pressure supersonic speeds, I haven't had a case split yet, and I check them closely as these are my SD loads. Seemed prudent to use cases matching factory cartridges....maybe. O0
I've never bought a 9mm case. ALL are range pick-ups. :-\
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I've not yet seen a nickel plated case split. I used to just mix them up in the boxes of ammo I'd reloaded and have no idea how many times any of them have been loaded.
Many years ago, most of the .357 magnum brass and .38 special brass I reloaded was nickel plated and I didn't have splitting issues with it and that stuff was reloaded many, many times.
Perhaps it has something to do with a combination of chamber size, pressure of the reload and dimensions of the resizing die overworking the brass, in some cases (not cartridge case, but in people's experience).
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I do believe nickle cases can be more brittle than un-plated brass and over working the cases such as over expanding the necks may contribute to premature failures and splitting but that being said I have a great many .38 spl cases that date back too the 60's that have been loaded enough times that the plating is nearly worn off and they still reload just fine. I get a split case now and then and that just means that case has lived it's full life. Load em and shoot em till they die.
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As far as reloading it, it lasts about 20% of the life of unplated brass.
It won't last as long, but I doubt it is as short as that. Maybe "20% less" might be a valid statement, which is to say "about 80% of the life of unplated brass".
Like others, I have many 9mm and 38 Spcl cases with the nickle wearing trough. As always, case life is highly dependent upon the typical load.
;)
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I stand by my original statement.
Not to be too picky, but your "original statement" was edited and modified on Aug 2, the same day you made the statement above. That simplifies things a great deal.
Whatever happened to, "Sorry guys. My first statement wasn't very clear. I was speaking only of my experience with the Freedom Munitions nickel plated brass."
Just my 2 cents.
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The majority of my experience with nickel plated brass is with revolver rounds in .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt, but I do have quite a bit of it in 9x19, .40 S&W and .45 acp. I've found that nickel plated brass will split noticeably sooner than yellow brass of the same caliber. In .38 Special, .357 Magnum and .45 Colt, I shoot those in revolvers and rifles, but I confine my use of plated brass to the revolvers. If a case splits in a rifle, the extractor won't pull it from the chamber and the you're dead in the water in a match if that happens.
Oft times, nickel brass won't give any indication that it's going to give up the ghost until it actually does. That's not really a problem in a revolver, other than making that case harder to eject.
I've got nickel cases where the plating is flaking off, etc. in both .38 Spl and .45 Colt. I also have cases that have been loaded and tumbled so many times the plating is worn off to the point it's almost gone.
In 9x19, .40 S&W and .45 acp calibers, I normally just save plated brass up until I have enough to mess with and then I'll use it to delineate a specific loading. When picking up my brass in the gravel at our range, I find the nickel brass harder to see, but then my yellow brass sparkles and really stands out!
Hope this helps.
Fred
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I think many of our reloaders knew plated brass tends to give up the ghost sooner than yellow brass.
The main new info on this thread is that Freedom Munitions plated brass appears to be more brittle than most big name nickel 9mm cases.
Good to know.
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I did edit my statement which I know shows a time stamp as to when it was done. Not trying to hide anything just trying to be more specific in my statement which I believe to be true. In the future I will keep my opinions to myself so there will not be any further misunderstandings. Thank you for bringing this to my attention as I should very specific and detailed when trying to help others.
I appreciate your reply and opinion/observations, as well as others here, exactly what I was looking for, so I am not the only one to observe such!
I doubt this is a Freedom specific issue, as I have had no real issues with the stuff. I guess I will just not expect too much from the nickel plated in the future, it is what it is.
Wobbly loves you too, or he would not yank your chain! If he did not, he would call you "friend", which is code for "sheep dip"! :P
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Copemech, not much that I can contribute, only that I'd give FM a call. I had an issue with some new .9mm.
It took a little time, due to shipping, but I rank their CS right up there with CZC and CGW. I was very happy with how they handled my issue and felt that they took care of me.
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I think many of our reloaders knew plated brass tends to give up the ghost sooner than yellow brass.
The main new info on this thread is that Freedom Munitions plated brass appears to be more brittle than most big name nickel 9mm cases.
Good to know.
1SOW, this was Speer brass, likely once fired so not FM's fault! It went bang, so they did their part!
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Huh.... Maybe a bad batch ?
Well, something unusual appears to have happened with F.M. using Speer plated brass. :-\
I shot about 30 Speer 124gr bullets & plated brass reloads at 1160 FPS two weeks ago with no problems.
All input is filed away for future reference. If it happens to anyone else, we can pile on and say uh oh.