The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: Joe L on June 04, 2017, 05:01:20 PM
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I want a P-10L, a 5" version of the P-10, which will be a 4.5" version of the P-10C. A P-10L with a red dot is, in my opinion, the only polymer pistol that has a chance of equaling my two P-09s as far as accuracy goes. I'm already convinced I can live with a striker trigger pull, now that I have had some great results at 50 yards single hand standing with the P-10C carry gun.
Of course, I could live with a P-09L or a P-11(?) just fine as well. :) :)
Joe
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I typically like full size or longer guns over their compact counterparts... but no way I would want to give up the hammer. I could live with DAO though :)
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Especially with production starting in the US next year, they should offer a long barrel P-10 and a single stack sub-compact to compete with the G43.
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Living with a striker trigger and liking it over a hammer gun are two different things.
As a side note, I was talking with my Glock guru buddy today, asked him about them striker springs. He said that a 4.0 lb spring is as light as you can reliably go and that is using Federal primers.
Cant recall what you put in there, but it makes me wonder about what primers AA is using as well?
Think he said regular stuff would take a 5.5 lb spring as long as it was Merican made and not some hard Russian primer of something.
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...asked him about them striker springs. He said that a 4.0 lb spring is as light as you can reliably go and that is using Federal primers.
4.0 is the lightest Wolff makes for the Glock and that is what is in mine. No problems. If I have one misfire, I'll go to the 4.5. Probably not going to happen with Atlanta Arms or Remington ammo.
Joe
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Joe,
Instead of waiting for a P-09-L, you could get the threaded P-09. You get your threaded barrel and with a red dot the decrease in sight radius is a non-factor.
As long as we're wishing, I think CZ needs to make a GLOCK MOS-style system for the P-series, that would really bring CZ's up to the modern era.
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Joe,
Instead of waiting for a P-09-L, you could get the threaded P-09. You get your threaded barrel and with a red dot the decrease in sight radius is a non-factor.
As long as we're wishing, I think CZ needs to make a GLOCK MOS-style system for the P-series, that would really bring CZ's up to the modern era.
The threaded P-09 barrel would help the barrel length, but what I really want is more weight up front.
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The threaded P-09 barrel would help the barrel length, but what I really want is more weight up front.
Throw a comp on the end :)
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As long as we're wishing, I think CZ needs to make a GLOCK MOS-style system for the P-series, that would really bring CZ's up to the modern era.
Having used both milled and MOS-style RDS solutions I would say there is no substitute for milling.
Of course, I say that because I insist on being able to co-witness with irons and most of the MOS style solutions require adapter plates.
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As long as we're wishing, I think CZ needs to make a GLOCK MOS-style system for the P-series, that would really bring CZ's up to the modern era.
Having used both milled and MOS-style RDS solutions I would say there is no substitute for milling.
Of course, I say that because I insist on being able to co-witness with irons and most of the MOS style solutions require adapter plates.
Yup, I'm in the process of building my P '007'. A threaded urban grey P-07, CZ Custom milled slide, Leupold DP Pro with their optional adjustable co-witness iron, and a tall front night sight, with Springer Comp on the barrel and Talon wrap on the grip. If it comes out the way I hope, I'll ditch my Glock 17 MOS and do a P '009' version. O0
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As long as we're wishing, I think CZ needs to make a GLOCK MOS-style system for the P-series, that would really bring CZ's up to the modern era.
Having used both milled and MOS-style RDS solutions I would say there is no substitute for milling.
Of course, I say that because I insist on being able to co-witness with irons and most of the MOS style solutions require adapter plates.
Yup, I'm in the process of building my P '007'. A threaded urban grey P-07, CZ Custom milled slide, Leupold DP Pro with their optional adjustable co-witness iron, and a tall front night sight, with Springer Comp on the barrel and Talon wrap on the grip. If it comes out the way I hope, I'll ditch my Glock 17 MOS and do a P '009' version. O0
Have you checked out the TBRC micro-comp? It looks very interesting...
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As long as we're wishing, I think CZ needs to make a GLOCK MOS-style system for the P-series, that would really bring CZ's up to the modern era.
Having used both milled and MOS-style RDS solutions I would say there is no substitute for milling.
Of course, I say that because I insist on being able to co-witness with irons and most of the MOS style solutions require adapter plates.
Yup, I'm in the process of building my P '007'. A threaded urban grey P-07, CZ Custom milled slide, Leupold DP Pro with their optional adjustable co-witness iron, and a tall front night sight, with Springer Comp on the barrel and Talon wrap on the grip. If it comes out the way I hope, I'll ditch my Glock 17 MOS and do a P '009' version. O0
Have you checked out the TBRC mini-comp? It looks very interesting...
I haven't looked at the TBRC mini-comp yet. Do you know if it has the correct fit clearance for P-07/09 slides? Apparently, some comps don't fit correctly, but comp will be the last step after I get milling done and fit the correct front sight (I'm hoping the stock suppressor sight will be tall enough for co-witness with the Leupold adjustable rear) So, I have some time to get recommendations and consider Comp options. The Springer looked like it was designed for the P-07/09. Thanks guys for your experience and suggestions.
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PS Here's a link to the Springer Precision Comp specifically designed for P-07/09. What do y'all think?
http://shop.springerprecision.com/product.sc?productId=365
Any advantage of TBRC mini-comp? Same thread but seems to be designed for Glock unless I'm missing something??
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Any advantage of TBRC mini-comp? Same thread but seems to be designed for Glock unless I'm missing something??
Size seems to be the big one... I don't notice much of an advantage in styling (i.e. blending with the P-07/P-09 slide profile) with either comp LOL
I'll shoot TBRC an email and see if they can provide some kind of measurement to see if the micro-comp will clear - it looks to me like it would but that is just eyeballing it.
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Ok, John @ TBRCi said: The recess on our MicroComp is .24". Anything longer than that will work fine.
Could someone with a micrometer measure from the back of the threads to the end of the slide on a P-07 or P-09 with a factory threaded barrel and report back on how much clearance is there??
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S0nspark,
Here's a few measurements taken from P-07 with my caliper +- a couple thousandths:
Face of slide to back of threaded cap: .157
Face of slide to flange where threads end: .235
Face of flange to end of barrel: .418
Face of slide to end of threaded barrel: .653
Hope this helps.
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S0nspark,
Here's a few measurements taken from P-07 with my caliper +- a couple thousandths:
Face of slide to back of threaded cap: .157
Face of slide to flange where threads end: .235
Face of flange to end of barrel: .418
Face of slide to end of threaded barrel: .653
Hope this helps.
Awesome - thanks! Looks like it might be close but perhaps doable :)
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To get adequate clearance might require machining about 10 thousandths+- off the back end of the TBRC Micro-comp??
Just for comparison, I wonder what Springer Precision would say their recess is?? I would think about .225. They say it's custom fit for the P-07/09 threaded barrels.
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Following because I'm interested in the outcome of the comps. I believe primary mentioned something about making their stealth comp for the p07/9.
Love my P07, it has replaced my a glock 19L, only things that would make the p07 better (for me)
CGW trigger job (i plan on having that done)
Milling for an RMR with properly cowitness sights (I have a RM07 just waiting for that as well)
A magwell
A compensator (sadly I live in NY and while ported barrels are legal, and as far as I can figure out compensator themselves are also legal, just threaded barrels on semi auto pistols are the illegal part. So I'm almost thinking order threaded barrel from shop who also does smithing, order comp and have them pin and weld the comp onto barrel thus making it tech a ported barrel. I know i won't be able to remove the barrel from the slide, but I'd be able to take the slide off for normal cleaning and maintenance. and if I really need to just cut the barrel and I'll have the original one to drop back in)
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Sorry, Blackbeard, that really bites. Plenty of room for good gun people in Arizona...
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Sorry, Blackbeard, that really bites. Plenty of room for good gun people in Arizona...
Oh it really does. That BS "safe act" is a joke, a semi auto handgun is considered an "assault weapon" if it weighs more than 50oz.
Thankfully i live on the NY Pa boarder, planning to move to PA and my county that i have my new York pistol license will let me keep that and still carry in NY if I live in the bordering PA county
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Lose the buttons and get paddles. Retraining takes 3 minutes. Release reach issues are gone and mag change speeds go down.
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I've lost control of my own I-want-a-long-barrel-plastic-striker-pistol thread!! Wait a minute! I never really had control anyway. :) :)
Carry on.
Joe
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I've lost control of my own I-want-a-long-barrel-plastic-striker-pistol thread!! Wait a minute! I never really had control anyway. :) :)
Carry on.
Joe
Lol. Yeah I'd like to see expansion of the P-10 line to include a full-size and a sub compact. Even better if the slides are interchangeable between all frames, like on the P-320. 5" slide on a sub-compact grip? Yes please. I like options.
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I want a P-10L, a 5" version of the P-10, which will be a 4.5" version of the P-10C. A P-10L with a red dot is, in my opinion, the only polymer pistol that has a chance of equaling my two P-09s as far as accuracy goes. I'm already convinced I can live with a striker trigger pull, now that I have had some great results at 50 yards single hand standing with the P-10C carry gun.
Of course, I could live with a P-09L or a P-11(?) just fine as well. :) :)
Joe
OK, back on track.....
Joe, Do you think the P-10 striker trigger is, or could be, better than the P-09?
Of course, any trigger can be better with enough work, so I'm really asking your opinion out of the box or with minimal equal amount of work.
BTW, the threaded P-09 barrel is 5.15 in.already. Are you thinking even longer?
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Joe, Do you think the P-10 striker trigger is, or could be, better than the P-09?
Of course, any trigger can be better with enough work, so I'm really asking your opinion out of the box or with minimal equal amount of work.
I think it depends on the application. Mine is different from most people. Out of the box, my opinion is that the P-09/07 trigger is "better". The P-10C trigger is so different that I don't really want to compare them directly. I am surprised at how quickly I was able to learn to handle the P-10C trigger, but part of the reason is that I like some creep and a wall just before the firing pin is released. Some folks don't want that and it would drive them nuts. Some people like a crisp, clean, 3 lb hammer drop and you aren't going to get there safely with a striker, in my opinion, based on very limited experience with striker fired pistols.
Short answer is I could live with a P-10C trigger with a 4# firing pin spring just fine, but I had to buy a CGW hammer for the P-09/07 pistols to be happy with them. Maybe I didn't work with the factory hammers long enough, not sure.
I can clarify that I would like to see a 5" slide gun, not just a suppressor barrel in a 4.5" gun.
Joe
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This guy found an expanded spec table in the manual. Not sure how I missed it but it's in my manual as well. I converted the measurements to inches and oz.
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b129/earlan357/P-10%20Model%20Chart.jpg)
Here's his video:
https://youtu.be/v8mvSVxRE_M?t=102 (https://youtu.be/v8mvSVxRE_M?t=102)
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Apparently, there are already plans for the P-10F Full size and P-10S sub-compact? Hmmm...
So, the desired longer 5" slide is not about barrel length, it's about increased sight radius?
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So, the desired longer 5" slide is not about barrel length, it's about increased sight radius?
And weight. Once a red dot is mounted, the open sight sight radius isn't relevant. The P-07 was as good at 100 yards as the P-09, I just had to hold a little higher because the barrel exit velocity was a little lower with the shorter barrel.
Joe
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I think there are actually more versions of the P-10 planned after the "C" model proves the line. :)
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I think there are actually more versions of the P-10 planned after the "C" model proves the line. :)
Agreed. I'll definitely be in for the P10S when shipped as well as the already planned P10C in .40.
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So, the desired longer 5" slide is not about barrel length, it's about increased sight radius?
And weight. Once a red dot is mounted, the open sight sight radius isn't relevant. The P-07 was as good at 100 yards as the P-09, I just had to hold a little higher because the barrel exit velocity was a little lower with the shorter barrel.
Joe
Geese, shooting bulls-eye targets at 100 yards with a handgun. Joe, you're way over my league.
However, the way you describe your 'wants', I'm still trying to figure out why a threaded barrel P-09 with a comp for added muzzle weight wouldn't give you what you want. Unless of course you want something that you know you can't have. O0
But, I couldn't see a bulls-eye at 100 yards, never mind hit it. I'm trying to learn something new here.
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Vinny==You are right about the weight of the comp adding the weight of a long slide. I never thought of it because I don't think compensators are allowed in bullseye matches.
Here is an old video of the P-09 at 100 yards on a tough day. The red dot is a necessity for me to do this.
https://youtu.be/9IMhzIYUsmE (https://youtu.be/9IMhzIYUsmE)
Joe
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Vinny==You are right about the weight of the comp adding the weight of a long slide. I never thought of it because I don't think compensators are allowed in bullseye matches.
Here is an old video of the P-09 at 100 yards on a tough day. The red dot is a necessity for me to do this.
https://youtu.be/9IMhzIYUsmE (https://youtu.be/9IMhzIYUsmE)
Joe
Awesome shooting Joe! The disciplines it takes to do that I suppose can translate to all forms of shooting. You must have eagle eyes!
Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum my Defensive instructor had me shooting at 9 targets blindfolded. I laughed when he first suggested it. You gotta be kidding. But believe it or not after a couple of tries, I nailed 7 out of 9 plates.
Intuitive shooting. Whoda thunk? But when 100 ths of a second count you gotta do what you gotta do. I'm hoping the DP Pro with co-witness milled into my P-07 with a comp will help get me where I want to be.
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Vinny -- I'm thinking co-witness with a red dot and comp on a P-07 would be absolutely perfect for what you want to do.
I'm also thinking a red dot on a 9mm Sugru'ed and JB-Welded CGW part enhanced 5" P-10L(?) striker plasic gun would be the absolutely perfect, most irritating pistol I could shoot in a bullseye match with all my old school custom 1911 bullseye shooter buddies. :) :)
They couldn't believe my P-09 (or the P-07) and I think a P-10L would cause considerable consternation.
Not saying my scores would top the 97B"E" in a bullseye match, just that the plastic gun scores would be closer to a "real bullseye gun" than most people would ever expect.
This is fun.
Joe
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Joe, I like your sense of humor. You'll have 'em crying in their range bags. LOL