The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => CZ Gunsmithing => Topic started by: newageroman on October 09, 2017, 01:03:12 AM
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So I just did first round of upgrades for my Buds special 75B range gun project. It was quite an adventure, and did contain some cursing. It is back together and tomorrow is range day!
Mostly this was a SAO trigger install, along with some pins and springs due to budgetary constraints. Trigger is better, but nowhere near my good trigger standards. Pics first and boring notes next. Thanks for all the great threads here.
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/firstRoundUpgrade.jpg)
in the midst of putting all the made in USA parts into the cheap commie pistol
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/SAOUpgrade.jpg)
Polymer SAO takeoff installed and back together-whew what a learning experience.
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/redTechPunches.jpg)
Kicking myself for forgetting to order a punch set last week, Here is what a redTech will do with stuff from lowes to make stuff happen. just chucked the punches up to a cordless drill and used some sandpaper to draw them down to proper size. Rear sight punch is hardwood dowel, with a bit of sandpaper wrapped around it and then shoved into a spent 9mm case. It will just fit through the rear sight dovetail perfectly (for removal if needed).
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/rearSightPunchTool.jpg)
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/FPwear.jpg)
Here is some wear from the FP block. Should no longer be an issue.
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/sightsInstalled.jpg)
Sights installed using redtech punches. Stock take offs, still better than NONE on the rear and bent front
Most of the frustration came from trying to put the safety pin back into the frame while the hammer was in full cock(I thought I would be smart and hold it back with rubber bands so I could use my two hands to put the sear cage into position and push the safety in while depressing the safety toggle spring).
Also other frustrating points to be noted by noob: trigger bar can't be removed without removing sear cage, don't forget to put the trigger return spring in or you get to do it all again. After disassembling and reassembling the trigger and sear for the 3rd time, I contemplated leaving the disconnector in, to avoid having to take the hammer spring and grips ect off. I went ahead and did that anyway and removed the mag brake while there. I figured I might as well go ahead and learn how the whole thing works while I was halfway in.
Installed:
? SAO trigger (polymer) ? missing overtravel set screw, probably wouldn?t make much of a difference. Like the shape and feel of the SAO curved trigger.
? Mild polish of triggerbar
? Remove disconnector for SAO
? Floating firing pin
? Remove FP block
? Add FP spacer
? Remove mag break (mags drop free)
? Green 13# recoil spring
? CGW trigger return spring
10/8/17:
Installed:
? Rear sight (stock takeoff freebie from forum member)
? Front sight (stock takeoff freebie from forum member)
? Made Front sight punch, and FP/slide pin punch from brass barstock
? Made sight pusher punch from hardwood dowel, sandpaper and 9mm empty brass
Next on the shopping list:
Race hammer kit (ring hammer preferred)
Flat mag brake
Metal SAO trigger
Grip screws
Grips ? thin
Hammer spring retainer without lanyard
Light weight hammer spring
Front and rear roll pins
Barrel bushing
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Looks good. Bringing back life to an otherwise neglected weapon, my kind of story. Are you planning on having it refinished? Although it is purely cosmetic, it may turn it into a significant addition to your collection that you'll be proud of due to the work you put into it.
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I'm kind of on the fence about refinishing it. I've done a number of airbrush/painting projects in the past and want to try cerekote metallic green frame and bronze slide and accents, with some dark walnut grips (green and brown theme)... but I kind of like the old beat up look too, hiding all the goodies inside. I did also see an awesome finish job of one of the guys here that did a rust blue finish that looked amazing, but I think that would be above my abilities at this point.
I did compare the SA trigger to my somewhat OK 1911, and the 1911 won by far in terms of trigger pull weight, take up and reset. I still have some work to do on this baby, but for now I'm OFF TO THE RANGE!
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Quick range trip. Gun shot very well. not as good as my 1911 side by side, but was still a decent single action trigger. I did have 1 stovepipe, but I think that may have been because I was riding the trigger. more parts and upgrades next payday.
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Upppp....Date....
So my second batch of CGW parts came in last week when I was on vacation. I was able to get most of them into the pistol late last night. I still need to add some locktite to the hammer pin, set the adj. sear (and loc tite it), adjust the pre and overtravel of the SAO trigger.
Question: When setting the adj. sear, directions say to make sure you have the hammer spring installed as it is needed for proper adjustment. Right now I have the lightest(white #8.5) hammer spring, but I also have the black 11.5 spring on hand. Which one should be used/installed when setting the sear, or does it really matter? I will probably be switching between the 2 spring rates every so often depending on availability of softer primers used in the reloading process.
Trigger is MUCH better overall with these new parts installed. It will take some tuning of the pre and overtravel, but I think I will end up liking it quite a bit.
New batch of parts included:
Ring hammer kit, white hammer spring, SAO trigger.
Extended FP and spring in hand and ready for install tonight.
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I've read here (if I understood things correctly) that the hammer spring doesn't have much effect on the trigger pull in SA. And, going too light may make the trigger pull less crisp than a heavier spring would produce.
Did you get an extended firing spring, too? Sorry if I missed that. If not, I would not install the 11.5 lb. hammer spring.
When you do get to adjusting/testing the sear setting, be sure you don't let the hammer keep smacking the back of the frame. It's not good for the hammer or the frame. Usually the hammer hits the back of the slide/firing pin. And don't let it pinch part of your finger either. Man does that ever hurt.
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Yeah, I've read that the hammer springs mostly affect double action, but for a mere $15 I couldn't not get the lighter springs to try, seeing as Im this deep in the mess anyway. I did contemplate not getting the hammersprings, and using the stock firing pin, which would have saved about $45.
I did get the extended FP spring too, will be going in tonight.
Good note/tip about the hammer and frame, I will keep that in mind. Pics and range trip coming soon.
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Range day! Pistol preformed very good. In terms of the trigger, it was much better than before. I did have about 3 stovepipes out of 75 rounds. I did't have any stovepipes before doing these SAO mods.
My next steps are going to be a barrell bushing, straight mag brake and Loc grips.
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Nice pics and good thread for new shooters!
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Another range trip. It shot great for the most part except for 5 or 6 stovepipes. I did change the hammer spring to the black 11.5# spring and had no light primer strikes. I tried putting the old stock mainspring in to limit stovepipes, but I still had them. There was a couple times that the extractor held onto the brass like below. What should I look for/try?
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/extractor-malfunction.jpg)
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That casiing didn't hit the ejector or maybe the extractor is stuck. I'm thinking check the ejector extension on the sear cage. If it is bent, it may be missing the casing and hitting the slide, slowing your slide down and that could explain the stovepipes, if everything else is OK. Maybe someone who has had this problem will give you some ideas.
Joe
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What brand/type ammo are you using?
Did you remove/clean the extractor?
You mentioned changing the hammer and mainspring, those are different names for the same spring.
Along with Joe's suggestion of checking the ejector, I would try a heavier recoil spring(ammo dependent).
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Haven't taken a look at the ejector just yet. I did buy another round of these parts to put in when they get here. I was hoping to try a uspsa match this weekend, but I got wrangled into anniversary stuff.
-ejector and spring
-flat mag brake
-main spring cup retainer pin
-LOC thin grips
holding out for:
10x bushing
sights
extended mag release
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Phase 3 complete - new LOK THIN grips. New extractor and spring. I didn't clean the extractor when recieving the pistol, so when I was replacing the extractor, I noticed a moderate amount of crud in the channel, which my have been causing my occasional stovepipe, but all clean now and ready for another trip to the range!
Also I got a flat mag brake (previously just had the mag brake left out), and a happersping cup pin that doesn't have the lanyard loop.
Next is bushing, ext. mag. rel. and sights.
These thin Bogies are awesome! I have medium hands and love long thin grips. I went for the grey and black and dig the looks. The LOK grips did come with two rubber orings for the grip screws too, so no locktite needed.
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/LOK_Grips2.jpg)
(http://alabamaguntrader.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/LOK_Grips.jpg)
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Thanks for pix and write up. In regards to ejecting issue, I would check for free operation of the extractor. This is assuming you are using ammo that was fine in the past ( no deformed handloads).I also notice that CZ sells 5 or 6 different sear cages, which I thought were to fine tune the ejector, which is part of the sear cage.
I am not certain about the use of the sear cage sizes, but I did notice these were available for some reason. Caution, they are pricey.....
I love improvisation with tools!!!! Good work there making a brass punch!!! I once made a Ruger Mk mainspring tool out of wood and steel strap. Looked goofy but worked well!!!
Let us know how you make out
Rich
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If you are talking about the ruger pistols (which I love, and was my first and favorite), I am right there with ya. I made a takedown tool out of wire looped into a buttsplice connector that worked well. Then I saw someone use the mag lips to do it and although I dont condone that behavior I can now use just about anything onhand and luckily my thumbnail will open my one and only mk II slabside. I will note that I did have a blue Volquartsen frame/lower, and marred the finish by using a hard piece of metal to open the mainspring. *noted, don't do that*
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If you are talking about the ruger pistols (which I love, and was my first and favorite), I am right there with ya. I made a takedown tool out of wire looped into a buttsplice connector that worked well. Then I saw someone use the mag lips to do it and although I dont condone that behavior I can now use just about anything onhand and luckily my thumbnail will open my one and only mk II slabside. I will note that I did have a blue Volquartsen frame/lower, and marred the finish by using a hard piece of metal to open the mainspring. *noted, don't do that*
I use a vinyl coated paperclip on my MkII
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Ahh, thanks, now I'll have something to do at the office tomorrow! coated paperclips sound like the perfect tool.
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Ahh, thanks, now I'll have something to do at the office tomorrow! coated paperclips sound like the perfect tool.
I've been using the same red and white striped paperclip (from a vendor at a scientific conference / trade show) for the last 20 years.
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Not to drift too far from the original post, the wooden tool that I made reinstalled the actual mainspring and cup and lever and ball bearing back into the mainspring housing and held it so the retaining pin could be re-installed, this is close to impossible without some sort of jig or 5 hands. Not to remove the housing from the grip frame. For that, almost anything will work. Yes a paperclip works well.
I checked the CZ site, and they offer sear cages in number 2 thru number 5. I am not certain as the description says very little, except that the cage is marked on the back with a number. My guess is different size or shape ejectors is why there are 4 different cages available.
Let us know how you make out with the ejection issue
Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!!!
Rich
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Well, I solved one problem and now stovepipe is back. Not really stovepipe per say, but FTE - brass gets stuck on the extractor, doesn't eject, slide moves forward and empty case keeps the next round from feeding - empty case ends up jammed in the chamber.
This was happening before, seemed to be gone, and is not back. It might be ammo related, I was using all Remington UMC 9mm.
I will be working up a suitable handload soon, just need to order dies (After Santa clause goes off an hibernates for the season).
The good news is that I still love the LOK Thin grips. Also last time to the range I was having some issues with the trigger not activating the sear/hammer. I backed out the overtravel adjustment on the trigger about a 1/2 turn and had none of those issues this range trip.
I'm trying to get this thing reliable enough to start USPSA. If it happens again, I will check the ejector and springs like was mentioned.
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Sorry to hear that. I've not yet had an extractor/ejection issue with a CZ yet, so I can't help you there.
It does seem like if the extractor can pull the case out of the chamber the ejector should knock it out of the slide/ejection port and onto the ground/table beside you.
Does the slide move freely to the rear? Does it do this with higher powered ammo? The UMC is target ammo, isn't it? Might not have the oomph required to operate everything correctly till the pistol is broken in well and everything loosens up some.
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slide rides smooth. This is a used gun. I'm gonna try different ammo and troubleshoot from there.