Strange failure

[1911P07]

Ok, so after a lot of thought and inspection of my p07 I have a theory as to what the issue was. I now believe it was a failure to fire because it would have been painfully obvious from the rear if my slide was out of battery even a little bit. I may be completely off base with this so don’t beat me up too badly. While examining the trigger and slide with the slide removed from the frame, I watched the piece that raises up to press on the firing pin safety block in both DA and SA (protecting the hammer from striking the frame of course). I noticed that it is technically possible (i think) to release the hammer with a trigger pull before that piece is at its fully raised position. It does not reach fully raised position until the trigger is pulled all the way back. Now the difference between the max height and the height at hammer release is pretty small. I have read a couple people on the internet say they had FTF issues in single action but not DA. My theory is maybe I was pulling the trigger very slowly (sometimes I do this)and maybe didn’t pull it all the way back, releasing the hammer but not depressing the safety block enough to release the firing pin. This would happen more often in SA than DA because the force required to pull the DA trigger to breaking point would carry the trigger all the way back after the shot breaks. Again, I could be completely wrong about this but I thought it was at least interesting enough to post.

Nevermind. I put gun back together and tested at what point the pin is free during the trigger pull and is free even before the hammer is released. Probably just some bad ammo…thanks for all the advice everyone.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Ok, so after a lot of thought and inspection of my p07 I have a theory as to what the issue was. I now believe it was a failure to fire because it would have been painfully obvious from the rear if my slide was out of battery even a little bit. I may be completely off base with this so don’t beat me up too badly. While examining the trigger and slide with the slide removed from the frame, I watched the piece that raises up to press on the firing pin safety block in both DA and SA (protecting the hammer from striking the frame of course). I noticed that it is technically possible (i think) to release the hammer with a trigger pull before that piece is at its fully raised position. It does not reach fully raised position until the trigger is pulled all the way back. Now the difference between the max height and the height at hammer release is pretty small. I have read a couple people on the internet say they had FTF issues in single action but not DA. My theory is maybe I was pulling the trigger very slowly (sometimes I do this)and maybe didn’t pull it all the way back, releasing the hammer but not depressing the safety block enough to release the firing pin. This would happen more often in SA than DA because the force required to pull the DA trigger to breaking point would carry the trigger all the way back after the shot breaks. Again, I could be completely wrong about this but I thought it was at least interesting enough to post.

Nevermind. I put gun back together and tested at what point the pin is free during the trigger pull and is free even before the hammer is released. Probably just some bad ammo…thanks for all the advice everyone.

What you describe would actually be a timing issue and if that were truly present you would have many more and pretty consistent failures. I think you're good to go at this point.

[1911P07]

Just wanted to report that I have since put a few hundred rounds more through my P07 since I originally posted about the failures. I have had NO MORE issues and I have even shot some hollow points through it. I am very happy with the P07!

[1911P07]

So my “strange failure” (not really) happened again yesterday. This time I took the time to really pay attention to what had happened rather than getting flustered and trying to clear it as fast as possible. It is a simple failure to go into battery. Seems as if the slide doesn’t have enough umph, is hanging up somewhere or a combination of both and won’t move the last half inch required to be in battery. Pushing the slide forward with a little force snaps the slide into battery and I can continue firing with no more issues. This has now happened a total of 3 times and I am approaching 1000 rounds. My question now is: is there a certain area where the slide meets the frame that can traditionally cause a little more friction than necessary? I keep it well lubed but it could use a cleaning. I am aware that it may also just be a limp wristing case. I admittedly was fiddling with my grip when this happened. I’ve noticed when taking the slide down there is some resistance in removing the slide even with the hammer in half cock so I was just curious if there is an area I could polish to solve this issue. Thanks in advance!

[Wobbly]

So my “strange failure” (not really) happened again yesterday. This time I took the time to really pay attention to what had happened rather than getting flustered and trying to clear it as fast as possible. It is a simple failure to go into battery. Seems as if the slide doesn’t have enough umph, is hanging up somewhere or a combination of both and won’t move the last half inch required to be in battery. Pushing the slide forward with a little force snaps the slide into battery and I can continue firing with no more issues. This has now happened a total of 3 times and I am approaching 1000 rounds. My question now is: is there a certain area where the slide meets the frame that can traditionally cause a little more friction than necessary?

It's the ammo !!

The ammo is not usually an issue, but the clearances to the chamber are on the order of 0.002"... which is smaller than the dia of a human hair. So you don't really need to be too far out-of-bounds before trouble occurs. And you certainly can't see the danger areas !!

I highly suggest you READ THIS before you get hurt.

Even "reputable" ammo makers like SIG and  Fiocchi are having trouble. 

[1911P07]

It's the ammo !!

The ammo is not usually an issue, but the clearances to the chamber are on the order of 0.002"... which is smaller than the dia of a human hair. So you don't really need to be too far out-of-bounds before trouble occurs. And you certainly can't see the danger areas !!

I highly suggest you READ THIS before you get hurt.

Even "reputable" ammo makers like SIG and  Fiocchi are having trouble.

Ok, I read it. Thank you for the help. I will say that it does not seem to be an issue of casing size as it was not “tight” in the chamber and ejected with no issue so an anemic load not supplying enough blow back to cycle the action fully then? I will do an ammo drop in test with a box of the PMC bronze that was the offender (with my barrel removed from the slide obviously). thanks again!

[Wobbly]

Ok, I read it. Thank you for the help. I will say that it does not seem to be an issue of casing size as it was not “tight” in the chamber and ejected with no issue so an anemic load not supplying enough blow back to cycle the action fully then? I will do an ammo drop in test with a box of the PMC bronze that was the offender (with my barrel removed from the slide obviously). Thanks again!

Ammo companies have rushed to fill the mega-void created by the Ukraine War and US shortages. Traditionally the issues were in physical size, but we are also seeing under-loaded cartridges and other ammo making issues. All of them not-so-obvious.

The best gauge for under-loading is how far the spent case is thrown. It should be on the order of 6 to 8 feet.

And it's always good to remember that your CZ was only designed and tested with FMJ. When you shoot lead projectiles, JHP, conical, flat point, plated... whatever... you're on your own.

[1911P07]

Ok, I read it. Thank you for the help. I will say that it does not seem to be an issue of casing size as it was not “tight” in the chamber and ejected with no issue so an anemic load not supplying enough blow back to cycle the action fully then? I will do an ammo drop in test with a box of the PMC bronze that was the offender (with my barrel removed from the slide obviously). Thanks again!

Ammo companies have rushed to fill the mega-void created by the Ukraine War and US shortages. Traditionally the issues were in physical size, but we are also seeing under-loaded cartridges and other ammo making issues. All of them not-so-obvious.

The best gauge for under-loading is how far the spent case is thrown. It should be on the order of 6 to 8 feet.

And it's always good to remember that your CZ was only designed and tested with FMJ. When you shoot lead projectiles, JHP, conical, flat point, plated... whatever... you're on your own.

I have only had the battery failure with brass cased fmj. The hollow points I have fired (around 150 rounds all cheap Phoenix ms 123 grain JHP) have all fed perfectly. I have noticed some casings falling right at my feet a few times though with the fmj.

[Wobbly]

I have noticed some casings falling right at my feet a few times though with the fmj.

And there's your root issue. Either....

• The ammo is under-powered, because the maker is skimping on the powder (the old Remington UMC was famous for this), OR

• The handgun itself has too much internal friction. This could be for 2 reasons...
 - This could be a new gun that hasn't been "broken-in" and has parts that need to be simply run more. It is a common issue on 1 out of every ~25 CZ's. Read THIS.

- This could be that the gun lubricant you are using is more "slick advertising" than slick lubricant. All you need is SYNTHETIC 0W20 automotive motor oil. Place: 1 drop on each rail, 1 drop on the barrel bush, 1 drop into the hammer group.

Either way, you need to shoot the gun more with a variety of ammo.

[1911P07]

I’ve been using hoppes elite gun oil. I also have a little container of rem oil that I’ve only used on an old Winchester model 190 22lr. The hoppes claims that it repels dirt and carbon…haha. This is certainly not the case from my personal experience. I was just using ballistol as an all around everything (CLP). Anyway, I may try the motor oil. I know for the most part oil is oil as long as comparing synthetic to synthetic but I will ask anyway…any particular brand? My thought is to buy the absolute cheapest quart of full synthetic 0w20 I can find. I have always liked the idea of using motor oil as it is produced to meet much higher temperature and friction demands than a firearm can produce and must therefore be able to easily handle anything in the realm of gun lubrication. The only potential concern I would have is motor oil interacting with the polymer frame of the p07. It is generally not produced with polymer in mind (though some oil soluble polymers are added to some motor oils) so this is another reason I ask which brand you may have experience with that has not posed any issue with polymers.
Edit: I was just thinking and anything that spends the majority of its life in a plastic bottle can’t possibly be bad for polymer…right?!…ha!

[M1A4ME]

I used 3n1 oil for a long time, still do every now and then.

Around 2004 or 2005 I started using Mobil 1.  Works great on all the rifles, shotguns and pistols.