SP01 Shadow - Help me understand

[johnandersonoutdoors]

I am thinking of taking the plunge into a CZ 75 SP01 Shadow.  This is after 6 or 7 years on a stock M&P 9.

Problem is I think I want to start with a stock SP01 Shadow, but I have never had a chance to handle one, and I don't know what it will feel like compared to the various CZ Custom versions that I have shot.  My friend brought 3 SP01 Shadow custom variants to range last weekend (I have no trigger pull weight info.  Also my memory of the SA shots is much clearer than DA shots)

Man a had a great time shooting these guns.  Freaking awesome!

• SP01 Shadow Custom with reach reduction: I liked the length of pull of DA, and both DA and SA were plenty smooth and crisp.
  
  
• SP01 Shadow Custom with reach reduction and additional trigger work:  I liked the lenght of pull of DA.  I think the DA trigger was smooth and fine.  The SA trigger was crazy light (coming from years of stock M&P 9).  It was cool, but I don't even think I need a trigger that light.  Maybe if I develop even more as shooter I would want that?  I don't know?  Does it give an advantage on splits or something else?
  
  
• Target II stock: I immediately noticed the longer length of pull on DA, and keeping this in mind.  I think the DA and SA trigger pulls were plenty smooth and crisp.
  

So where do I go from here.  I definitely noticed that I like the reach reduction, but it isn't really necessary for IDPA (can start in single action in ESP).  If I shoot USPSA later on, I will want to shoot it starting in DA so that I can be in Production, and will probably want to reduce length of DA pull.

Some questions:
Considering where I am coming from, how much trigger work do I need on stock SP01 Shadow?  Any idea of what the trigger pull weights and smoothness of a base SP01 Shadow compared to my friend's custom CZs?  If I go all in later on and get new parts from cz custom or cgw, do you think someone with somewhat limited mechanical ability can install rrk and do other trigger work/smothing on their own?  And have it turn out pretty descent?  I have reviewed all the helpfull threads on smithing the CZs here, but just not confident in myself at this point.  Althought, I don't have the gun yet so never even had a chance to take one apart and even clean it and look at it up close.

Finally, the gun I end up with tuned or not must run CCI and S&B primers.  Also, I am on a flexible budget, but want to try to keep the bill as low as I can.

Any help you can give me making sense of all my thoughts and questions is greatly appreciated.

[Earl Keese]

 It looks like the only Shadows in the 2019 lineup are the Shadow Target II and Shadow 2 variants. Between the two frame types, it comes down to personal preference though a lot of people would push you towards the Shadow 2 for production class.
 I don't think the Shadow 2 is approved yet for IDPA so that would leave you with the Shadow Target II. It's a CZ Custom gun, so it already has a trigger job/short reset and should be smooth like your friend's. It comes with a 13lb hammer spring, in my guns that works fine with S&B primers. With an 11lb spring it ignites S&B primers as long as I make sure to seat them all the way. I can't say regarding CCI, as I avoid them.
 If you order from CZC, you could ask them to pre-install a reach reduction kit. Regarding the CGW RRK, most of us here do our own work so I'd say it's very doable with average mechanical skills.
  If you find an older OEM Shadow, the trigger may require some work for the smoothness and pull weight you're looking for. They tend to vary somewhat out of the box.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[dbarn]

Not to make this a SP01 Shadow vs a Shadow 2 thread, but having a CGW SP01 Tactical already, I went with the SP01 Shadow Orange because I'm accustomed to the frame size and like it. My default grip works and does not have to change pistol to pistol.

Regarding the upgrades, the Shadows do not have the FP Block and have an easier sear cage to disassemble/reassemble. In short they are fairly easy to work on. I've polished the internals, installed the RRK, the RP TRS, Extended FP and have a 11lb recoil spring and 11.5 hammer spring. There are some pretty good instructional videos available on the subject and CGW has some added tools that make the process easier.

Regarding the lighter trigger and polishing vs no polishing and just adding the parts. Polishing makes the internal operation smoother. Yes the trigger will be lighter and will take additional practice to master. You will have to decide based on your skills if this will be beneficial to you. I like the added bonus of helping to eliminate creep and disturbing my sights as little as possible while shooting. A lighter trigger will go off sooner if you ride the reset. However I've found that I actually do better not riding the reset during dynamic shooting. YMMV

[2morechains]

The SP-01 Shadow is a great pistol, I used to own one and shot USPSA with it.  Mine was worked over by CZ Custom and had their trigger job done on it, to include the pre-B disco that gave it a shorter reach than stock.  As it came from CZC, IIRC the DA was 7.5 lbs, SA was 3-ish, but CZC usually installs a 13 lb hammer spring to reliably ignite primers.  I installed a 11.5 lb hammer spring and a CGW reduced trigger return spring and that dropped the DA below 7 lbs and the SA to around 2-2.25 lbs.  Combined with the extended firing pin and reduced firing pin spring it reliably ignited CCI and S&B primers. 

My guess is if you got a stock SP-01 Shadow you?re probably looking at trigger pull weights in the 8-10 lb range in DA, and a SA pull of 4-5 lbs (or thereabouts), plus the longer reach.  Some easy changes you can DIY with parts from CGW or CZC are:  install a 11.5 lb hammer spring which reduces the DA pull weight.  This alone is probably the biggest change you can make.  Installing a CGW reduced weight trigger return spring (TRS) will drop the DA and SA by about 1/2 lb each.  While you?re replacing the TRS might as well replace the factory trigger pin with the CGW floating trigger pin (plus it comes with a slave pin to make install of the TRS easier).  To ensure reliable primer ignition with the lighter hammer spring most people recommend the CGW extended firing pin and reduced weight firing pin spring.  With these three things, you?re only up to about $50 in parts, so pretty reasonable.

Many DIY?ers will also do some internal polishing to smooth up the DA action.  If the long trigger reach is an issue you can also install and fit your own disconnector from CGW or CZC. 

To take it to the next level, for another $150-ish you can buy a competition hammer and adjustable sear from CGW and install those yourself. 

All of the above can be done at once or piece meal as your budget allows.  Will the DIY be as good as the work that CGW or CZC does, probably not, but it?ll definitely be better than stock. 

   

[johnandersonoutdoors]

It looks like the only Shadows in the 2019 lineup are the Shadow Target II and Shadow 2 variants.

Do you mean on the CZ USA lineup?  Has a CZ 75 SP01 Shadow been shown there or has it always been only on CZ Custom?  If I can, I think I want to go SP01 Shadow for about $900 for now.  I am sure it is good enough to shoot stock for a bit while I get to know it better before attempting any work on it.  Since IDPA is my main game I can't go S2.  If I can get my hands on SP01 Shadow and get to the point where I am tearing into it, I know I will have some questions for you guys here that have worked on CZs.  Thanks for the info.

Regarding the upgrades, the Shadows do not have the FP Block and have an easier sear cage to disassemble/reassemble. In short they are fairly easy to work on. I've polished the internals, installed the RRK, the RP TRS, Extended FP and have a 11lb recoil spring and 11.5 hammer spring. There are some pretty good instructional videos available on the subject and CGW has some added tools that make the process easier.

It sounds like you and Earl can help me if I have questions
I have watched everything I can find on CZ and working on them, but I haven't really found any great ones.  Of course, I have never even opened one up and cleaned one yet so I haven't seen internal workings in front of my in person yet.  Hopefully once I can, then the videos I have found will make more sense.

I have never handled an S2 so I don't know what it would even feel like.  Could be good.  I have shot 5 SP01 Shadow custom variants, the 3 mentioned in op, and then an accushadow and another sp01 shadow custom.  The feel pretty darn good in the hand!  I am looking forward to getting one and hopefully working on it if I find it necessary after shooting it a while.

The SP-01 Shadow is a great pistol, I used to own one and shot USPSA with it.  Mine was worked over by CZ Custom and had their trigger job done on it, to include the pre-B disco that gave it a shorter reach than stock.  As it came from CZC, IIRC the DA was 7.5 lbs, SA was 3-ish, but CZC usually installs a 13 lb hammer spring to reliably ignite primers.  I installed a 11.5 lb hammer spring and a CGW reduced trigger return spring and that dropped the DA below 7 lbs and the SA to around 2-2.25 lbs.  Combined with the extended firing pin and reduced firing pin spring it reliably ignited CCI and S&B primers.

My guess is if you got a stock SP-01 Shadow you?re probably looking at trigger pull weights in the 8-10 lb range in DA, and a SA pull of 4-5 lbs (or thereabouts), plus the longer reach.  Some easy changes you can DIY with parts from CGW or CZC are:  install a 11.5 lb hammer spring which reduces the DA pull weight.  This alone is probably the biggest change you can make.  Installing a CGW reduced weight trigger return spring (TRS) will drop the DA and SA by about 1/2 lb each.  While you?re replacing the TRS might as well replace the factory trigger pin with the CGW floating trigger pin (plus it comes with a slave pin to make install of the TRS easier).  To ensure reliable primer ignition with the lighter hammer spring most people recommend the CGW extended firing pin and reduced weight firing pin spring.  With these three things, you?re only up to about $50 in parts, so pretty reasonable.

Yeah the CZ custom and I am sure CGW guns too, they are amazing to shoot.  Thanks for the trigger pull info and the rest of the post.  Helps me to see big picture and more clearly.  I think I heard a friend mentioning those same $50 in parts to another.  I bet that and internal polishing is a great place to start on the gun.


Thanks everyone.

[Earl Keese]

I was looking at the catalog on  CZ-USA.com. The only Shadow listed for 2019 is SKU#91760 and it's a CZ Custom gun. To be fair, I haven't looked at Shadows on the CZ website in a while. They used to have one that was straight from CZ. I'm sure there's still several models floating around in dealer inventories.

[zhuk]

I am thinking of taking the plunge into a CZ 75 SP01 Shadow.  This is after 6 or 7 years on a stock M&P 9.

Problem is I think I want to start with a stock SP01 Shadow, but I have never had a chance to handle one, and I don't know what it will feel like compared to the various CZ Custom versions that I have shot.  My friend brought 3 SP01 Shadow custom variants to range last weekend (I have no trigger pull weight info.  Also my memory of the SA shots is much clearer than DA shots)

Man a had a great time shooting these guns.  Freaking awesome!

• SP01 Shadow Custom with reach reduction: I liked the length of pull of DA, and both DA and SA were plenty smooth and crisp.
  
  
• SP01 Shadow Custom with reach reduction and additional trigger work:  I liked the lenght of pull of DA.  I think the DA trigger was smooth and fine.  The SA trigger was crazy light (coming from years of stock M&P 9).  It was cool, but I don't even think I need a trigger that light.  Maybe if I develop even more as shooter I would want that?  I don't know?  Does it give an advantage on splits or something else?
  
  
• Target II stock: I immediately noticed the longer length of pull on DA, and keeping this in mind.  I think the DA and SA trigger pulls were plenty smooth and crisp.
  

So where do I go from here.  I definitely noticed that I like the reach reduction, but it isn't really necessary for IDPA (can start in single action in ESP).  If I shoot USPSA later on, I will want to shoot it starting in DA so that I can be in Production, and will probably want to reduce length of DA pull.

Some questions:
Considering where I am coming from, how much trigger work do I need on stock SP01 Shadow?  Any idea of what the trigger pull weights and smoothness of a base SP01 Shadow compared to my friend's custom CZs?  If I go all in later on and get new parts from cz custom or cgw, do you think someone with somewhat limited mechanical ability can install rrk and do other trigger work/smothing on their own?  And have it turn out pretty descent?  I have reviewed all the helpfull threads on smithing the CZs here, but just not confident in myself at this point.  Althought, I don't have the gun yet so never even had a chance to take one apart and even clean it and look at it up close.

Finally, the gun I end up with tuned or not must run CCI and S&B primers.  Also, I am on a flexible budget, but want to try to keep the bill as low as I can.

Any help you can give me making sense of all my thoughts and questions is greatly appreciated.

John, I am in exactly the same position as you...7 years shooting an M&P9L and have just bought a SP01 Shadow (about the last new stock available here)

I have only briefly shot an SP01 once years ago, and had a go of someone's Shadow 2 the week before last...but it just fits my hand so much better than the M&P and since 99% of Production shoots Shadows...well lol

I agree, SA is just freakin ridiculous! And I have no wish whatsoever for it to be any lighter...just bought a trigger gauge and its an average of 2lbs 9oz 


DA is another thing however lol...I have small hands and a bit of a wrist issue so am trying out springs to get it down; installed an 11lb recoil spring and a 13lb mainspring/reduced firing pin spring, which came out at roughly 9lb which was still too much and caused pain down the carpal tunnel part of my arm. 11lb next and it dropped about 1.5lbs to 7.5 but still needs to be lighter for the front sight not to move when dropping the hammer, and to (hopefully) pretty much eliminate the pain. I will try 10lbs next which I think might be the ticket.

As far as reach goes, reduction will also help DA as you've found out. If the reach reduction kit is legal for you, I say go for it. A mate's Canadian friend is coming out to our Nationals in March and has a US post box...he is buying a 75 recurve trigger for me from CZ custom as they will not ship outside the US...this is the difference:

Mate's gun with recurve at bottom...gotta say his DA is incredible, but it has also had 60,000 rnds through it plus springs adjustment lol







https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/triggers/cz-75-recurve-trigger-05a.html


If you can do internal polishing that will also help a lot, however that is illegal for us in IPSC.

You ask what is an out of the box Shadow trigger with no work is like? Completely night & day to the M&P, not surprisingly. Perfectly smooth and crisp both in DA & SA...whereas my M&P trigger was positively gritty when new, and I spent two nights in front of the TV just working it to get some of the crunchiness out of it lol

[dbarn]

60,000 rounds wow. I bet the DA is smooth. Also like the beveled edge of the trigger guard. 

[zhuk]

60,000 rounds wow. I bet the DA is smooth. Also like the beveled edge of the trigger guard. 

A "worn in bevel" yes lol

He hasn't shot that gun in 10 years, but he's a Master Grade IPSC shooter and Secretary of my club, so no real surprises heh. The gun has now been relegated to duty for putting newbies through the IPSC Holster course 

[M1A4ME]

Even if CZ doesn't make them this year or next, searching the internet and going to gun shows might help find what you want.

When did CZ last make the DUTY P07's?  Two weeks ago, at the Richmond, VA gun show, I saw a 9MM DUTY on a table.  Brand new, sitting on the box.  Crazy part is the dealers still want new/current prices for a gun that is discontinued, was updated/upgraded due to some teething issues and is several years old (even if still new in the box - it's not like it's ever going to be a collector's item due to rarity or extremely high quality).