DA/SA and Trigger Over-travel Adjustment

[dbarn]

I've recently installed a CGW RRK in my Shadow Orange SP-01 while keeping the factory hammer.

I'm noticing that my trigger over travel screw has to be loosened quite a bit in order for the double action pull to function reliably and drop the hammer. Unfortunately this is creating quite a bit of over travel in the SA mode. I do not recall having this much over travel with my original factory non RRK trigger.

Does this mean that I need to go to a competition hammer with shorter hooks to shorten the DA stroke? Can I keep the factory sear?

[George16]

You can install the competition hammer to shorten the DA stroke if you want to. You can also keep the factory sear but you have to do some fitting on the safety to make it work. When I installed the factory hammer on my Shadow 2, I also installed the adjustable sear and spacer to make the process easier because I don?t want to be fitting the safety.

I also removed the overtravel screw on my gun. It?s just one thing to mess up during competition.

[dbarn]

You can install the competition hammer to shorten the DA stroke if you want to. You can also keep the factory sear but you have to do some fitting on the safety to make it work. When I installed the factory hammer on my Shadow 2, I also installed the adjustable sear and spacer to make the process easier because I don?t want to be fitting the safety.

I also removed the overtravel screw on my gun. It?s just one thing to mess up during competition.

Just to be clear. If I install a competition hammer and keep the factory sear, I will need to do some fitting on the safety? Or does the fitting need to be done if I replace the sear? If so I may just remove the the over travel screw and call it good.

[George16]

The fitting needs to be done on the safety.

If you install the adjustable sear, no fitting is required since the set screw is what?s adjusted to make sure the safety can be enagaged properly.

I removed all over travel screws on my competition pistols. It?s just one thing that will unscrew and prevent the proper operation of the gun during a competition.

[dbarn]

Thanks for your help.

[MoRivera]

Sometimes the disconnector needs to be fitted/honed so that the DA break is a bit sooner in the travel than all the way back, and close to if not right at the same point as the SA break.  It can be a very meticulous and time-consuming process of honing down .001-.003 inches off the bottom 'wing'/lug at a time and seeing where the break is....and it is fairly easy to go too far as well and have the DA break be too soon.  I've had to do this on a few pistols when I installed a CGW T1 disco which is supposed to be drop-in.  Thankfully got them to where I can set my 85C trigger's overtravel screw to the right point in SA and have the DA break right where the SA one is.

Also, CZ75/SP01's have some play in the sear cage that can vary from gun to gun, and that can affect just where that DA trigger breaks in that particular gun.  A la, the same sear cage in a different frame could have a slightly different break point.

[M1A4ME]

There's a thread or two here on the forum about figuring out if your sear cage has movement and then taking care of that.  Couple different methods posted in the threads (pictures, too) and it looks like either works.

When you install the race hammer you'll see it has a shallower notch for the sear (so it takes less sear movement to release the hammer). 

Since the sear doesn't move into the shallow notch as deeply as it would into the deeper notch of the factory hammer the front arm on the sear doesn't raise up as high.  That means the cam on the left side safety lever may not have the clearance to move under the arm on th sear.  If it can't move under the sear arm the safety won't work as intended - to block sear movement and keep the pistol from firing when the trigger is pulled.

My first one I modified the cam on the safety shaft.  Took me about 24 or 25 repeats of remove the safety, take a small amount of metal off the cam, reinstall the safety and try it, repeat, repeat, repeat, like I said, about 24 or 25 times.  Finally got it right.  Promised myself that the next time I'd spend the extra money on CGW's adjustable sear and then bought two of those for two different pistols.  Worked like a charm both times.

Picture of my CZ75 Compact project pistol (converted to CZ85 configuration).  You can see the arm on the sear and the cam on the safety.  Flipping the safety to the safe position rotate the cam clockwise under the sear arm (to block sear movement).

Green arrow points at the arm of the sear.  Red arrow points at the cam on the safety shaft that move under the sear arm to block movement.  If you take too much off the cam it might allow enough sear movement for the pistol to fire, or it might not.  I wasn't sure (not a gunsmith) and didn't want to ruin my safety/buy another one.

[dbarn]

Great information gentlemen thanks very much for the help.

Right now I'm satisfied with everything about this pistol except for the overtravel adjustment in SA. How much this affects practical accuracy remains to be seen and I may wind up purchasing the competition hammer and adjustable sear. It's always  interesting that when one part is replaced, how other parts are affected.

[dbarn]

Okay, I have found the combination for having the overtravel screw's best setting in SA and still allowing the DA to function has been to replace the RRK disconnector  with the original factory disconnector. I still have a very short reset although a longer reach for DA. While the reset is short, the initial pull through for SA is also slightly longer with the trigger coming to a wall then breaking with virtually no creep. The pull through is a non issue as I do not ride the reset.

Oddly enough, the CGW old 85C trigger combined with factory disconnector was a better combination for DA/SA with the overtravel screw than the factory trigger with my particular pistol.

Of course replacing the hammer with a competition version and adjustable sear would be the next step and would allow me to use the RRK disconnector. However so far I'm not unhappy with the above combination. Is having the overtravel screw at the best setting for SA while still allowing function in DA more important than having to replace the RRK disconnector? Probably not for rapid or competition shooting, but it may make a difference for precision shooting. How much remains to be seen.     

[dbarn]

With regard to having the overtravel screw set in best position for SA while still allowing DA to function, has anyone had better luck with pre b drop in disconnector?

[MoRivera]

With regard to having the overtravel screw set in best position for SA while still allowing DA to function, has anyone had better luck with pre b drop in disconnector?

I tried one in my Shadow 1 and its seemed to work fine out of the box in terms of where the DA and SA break were....BUT....I actually didn't like that there was essentially no take-up/slack before the SA break.  I like there being a little bit, like there is with the Cajun T1 disco.  I just feel the the reset is more sure and I'm very used to that little bit of take-up.  So to match that I'd probably have to fit/grind down some of the inner 'leg' portion on the Pre-b (which some do anyway just a sight amount).  Didn't bother and just put my fitted T1 back in.  Still have the Pre-b and might use it on another gun, though.

[dbarn]

Thanks for your reply. I wound up using the one that came with CGW's RRK and filed the lower edge of the wing. However I think I've filed too much, as the DA stroke is now shorter and will not fire off Federal primers with the 11.5 lb spring, SA is no problem. The DA works fine with the 13 lb spring. One thing for sure, having the overtravel screw in the best setting on SA while still working in DA, definitely improves fine accuracy.