Why does Precision Delta 230gr make my gun so dirty ?

[Pistolet]

The barrel in my 1911 gets dirty very quickly with PD230gr FMJ. It leaves something in the first 1/4 or 1/2 inch of the riffling. I don't know if it is lead, carbon or copper.  It's really hard to clean, I tried soaking overnight with Ballistol or Hoppes #9 and it then it takes a lot of elbow grease and there is still some left. Not satisfactory, ok, so I learned gun cleaning at the school of the angry sergeant who rubs his white gloves in the slide and barks at you to go back and do it again.

I have no problems with PD 124gr FMJ in any of my 9mm

Recently I started experiencing with 200gr coated SWC and not only did it shoot very well but it left my barel clean and even seemed to have helped clean the last bits of fouling. I used up all the coated SWC and went back to FMJ and sure enough the barrel is dirty again after only 100 rounds.

Is it the load? is it the way the riffling was manufactured?


This is after only 100 rounds after running a patch

[George16]

What powder are you using. I get a little bit of dirt when using 4.5 Gr of bullseye with my 230 Gr reloads but not if I use WST.

[andrew1220]

Looks like leading to me but that seems unlikely if you're using FMJ's? Do the PD bullets have an exposed lead base?

[Pistolet]

Looks like leading to me but that seems unlikely if you're using FMJ's? Do the PD bullets have an exposed lead base?

yes they do.

[Pistolet]

What powder are you using. I get a little bit of dirt when using 4.5 Gr of bullseye with my 230 Gr reloads but not if I use WST.

I've been using Hp 38 with everything I load.

[lewmed]

 I had a carbon problem much like what your having on a 45 auto barrel and a 44 mag barrel shooting light loads and W-231.  I cleaned the barrels and coated the insides with several coats of Sentry smooth kote barrel and bore treatment. My barrels have stayed deposit free after thousands of rounds and just a patch or two keeps them clean.

[2bfree]

I have shot thousands rounds of 230 PD FMJ and HP 38 and never had your problem. Maybe a to light of a load ? That's all I got, Good luck.

[tdogg]

I too had a hard carbon issue in the lands of my TSO in 40.   Smooth kote and BP 2000 in my barrels now and they come out clean with minimal scrubbing.   I'm sold because before I tried a dozen different bore cleaners including iosso bore paste with limited success and lots of heavy scrubbing.

I'm guessing the bullets are slightly undersized or your bore is slightly over sized.   What diameter are your bullets?  Have you slugged your bore?

Cheers,
Toby



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[Pistolet]

I have slugged my bore: a little bit over .452. The PD FMJ 230gr is a little under .452 .  Being a FMJ would that make my bullet undersized?
I make them at 1.265OAL and 5.2-5.3gr hp38.

The SWC with which I have no problem, is Bear Creek 45 cal.   SWC   200 gr.   .452"  but now I am starting to wonder if they are not a little undersized too.

[2bfree]

That is the load I use all though a shorter OAL 1.235.. Sorry, no help.

[painter]

Common wisdom is you want a FMJ bullet to be 1/2 thousandth larger than your bore.

Since 'most' 45 FMJ projectiles are 452...

sounds like your bore is a bit oversize.

[Pistolet]

Common wisdom is you want a FMJ bullet to be 1/2 thousandth larger than your bore.

Since 'most' 45 FMJ projectiles are 452...

sounds like your bore is a bit oversize.

What size coated SWC should I use? .453?

[painter]

Common wisdom is you want a FMJ bullet to be 1/2 thousandth larger than your bore.

Since 'most' 45 FMJ projectiles are 452...

sounds like your bore is a bit oversize.

What size coated SWC should I use? .453?

At least...maybe .454.

There's a member here that loads bare lead at .358 for 9mm in all his pistols. He maintains there's no substitute for fit with lead bullets. You have more leeway with coated, but there's no reason to ignore fit if you have the choice.

[noylj]

That looks like powder blow-by that the bullet has compressed into the rifling. Check diameter of bullet and ACTUAL measured groove diameter. For FMJ, they should be the same or slightly larger. Next, shoot about 500 and I'll bet the condition stays the same and does not get worse. For "soft" lead bullets (8-13 BHN) you should shoot bullets that are at least 0.001" larger than actual groove diameter. With HARD lead bullets (18-22 BHN), i find at lest 0.002" larger than groove diameter works best for accuracy.
You should seat a few bullets, crimp, and then pull them and see if there are crimp rings or a change in bullet diameter. The taper crimp does NOT mean the case mouth needs to contact the bullet, it just removes case mouth flare.
Exposed lead at the bullet base CAN NOT be a source of leading. Lead has a high heat content and will not melt from the flame front in the microseconds it is exposed.
Old wive's tales die hard, particularly on the internet.
Decades ago, one of the writers went and put Templ-marker or some such temperature indicating crayon, on the bullet base, loaded and fired the bullets, recovered the bullets and the wax didn't melt and there was no temperature change indicated.

[Pistolet]

That looks like powder blow-by that the bullet has compressed into the rifling. Check diameter of bullet and ACTUAL measured groove diameter. For FMJ, they should be the same or slightly larger. Next, shoot about 500 and I'll bet the condition stays the same and does not get worse. For "soft" lead bullets (8-13 BHN) you should shoot bullets that are at least 0.001" larger than actual groove diameter. With HARD lead bullets (18-22 BHN), i find at lest 0.002" larger than groove diameter works best for accuracy.
You should seat a few bullets, crimp, and then pull them and see if there are crimp rings or a change in bullet diameter. The taper crimp does NOT mean the case mouth needs to contact the bullet, it just removes case mouth flare.

"That looks like powder blow-by that the bullet has compressed into the rifling" sounds like a good theory I think I like this better than lead
I know from past experience that if I shoot more than a hundred without cleaning, the fouling in the riffling will get longer.   
I pulled out a couple of bullets and they are just about or maybe less than .0003 or .0004 if at all smaller than the new ones. But I will back off my taper crimp dye to see.