Why does Precision Delta 230gr make my gun so dirty ?

[Wobbly]

Price is down to $99 for anyone looking for a top quality 1 inch mic.

I can sell you a name-brand mic for less than half of that !

[painter]

Price is down to $99 for anyone looking for a top quality 1 inch mic.

I can sell you a name-brand mic for less than half of that !

Is it a brand new Starrett?

[Dan_69GTX]

Nope - Harbor Freight!  Everyone knows that brand!   

I've also have the Mitutoyo brand equipment.   Unfortunately I can't find a few standards for the larger micrometers....sigh...  At a swap meet I found a good deal on a Starrett telescoping gauge set for $75 - barely used!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00008IHTK/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=77653062673365&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_218twd1orb_e

[Pistolet]

Okay, so I received the Starrett micrometer, a beautiful instrument, and here are my measurements:
-the gun slugs at .4525
-230gr RN Precision Delta is .4517 or .4519, smaller than the riffling.
-200gr SWC coated bear creek .4526 or .4528, a little bit more than the riffleing.
It seems both bullets are too small?

[painter]

If you can buy them, look for bullets in the .454 area.

[Wobbly]

This slugging business is VERY delicate stuff. And when you measure to 4 decimal places the temperature of metals can come into play. How you hold the micrometer becomes important, the pressure the micrometer applies, etc. And too, the slugging alloy, barrel lubricant, how pressure is applied become really important.

In other words, measuring your bullets is not a big deal because there's only 1 or 2 ways to mess that up. But the act of slugging has 50 ways to mess it up. So simply looking at the number of risks involved... if presented with those numbers, I'd want to go back and study my slugging technique.

[painter]

I agree with what Mr. W says re; slugging, and using a mic. Like anything they're learned skills, and you'll be more accurate and repeatable with practice, but have you tried the Bear Creek bullets? I didn't go back and re-read the entire thread

Do they create the same fouling?

[Pistolet]

I agree with what Mr. W says re; slugging, and using a mic. Like anything they're learned skills, and you'll be more accurate and repeatable with practice, but have you tried the Bear Creek bullets? I didn't go back and re-read the entire thread

Do they create the same fouling?

The Bear Creek are very clean, they even seem to clean the barrel.
While I have been loading their SWC with a flat base they also have a hollow base bullet which they claim will swell under low pressures and accommodate large bores.  https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/45hphb230

[Pistolet]

This slugging business is VERY delicate stuff. And when you measure to 4 decimal places the temperature of metals can come into play. How you hold the micrometer becomes important, the pressure the micrometer applies, etc. And too, the slugging alloy, barrel lubricant, how pressure is applied become really important.

In other words, measuring your bullets is not a big deal because there's only 1 or 2 ways to mess that up. But the act of slugging has 50 ways to mess it up. So simply looking at the number of risks involved... if presented with those numbers, I'd want to go back and study my slugging technique.

I am not sure if I am doing it right. I have been using the .454 lead round balls for muzzle loading. Three where pushed all the way though from muzzle to chamber, three just a couple of inches and out through the muzzle again. Then I used the micrometer to the best of my ability, on different areas around the slug and all the measurements are pretty much the same.

[painter]

I checked out their site earlier.

While I can't prove anything, it 'seems' as if your barrel is definitely too large for the PD bullets. The proof is in the barrel. To make Mr. W happier you might try slugging it again and see if your results are repeatable.

You also might call PD and see if they offer custom sizing. I wouldn't buy anything advertised as smaller than .453, and would opt for .454 if available, and see if that solves the problem with the PD bullets.

This slugging business is VERY delicate stuff. And when you measure to 4 decimal places the temperature of metals can come into play. How you hold the micrometer becomes important, the pressure the micrometer applies, etc. And too, the slugging alloy, barrel lubricant, how pressure is applied become really important.

In other words, measuring your bullets is not a big deal because there's only 1 or 2 ways to mess that up. But the act of slugging has 50 ways to mess it up. So simply looking at the number of risks involved... if presented with those numbers, I'd want to go back and study my slugging technique.

I am not sure if I am doing it right. I have been using the .454 lead round balls for muzzle loading. Three where pushed all the way though from muzzle to chamber, three just a couple of inches and out through the muzzle again. Then I used the micrometer to the best of my ability, on different areas around the slug and all the measurements are pretty much the same.

When pushing the slugs through, did you notice any part of the barrel where the slug pushed easier?

You're supposed to push from breech to muzzle... https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=81676.msg599331#msg599331

ETA...neither the PD, or Bear Creek sites states the hardness of their product. It could be that the Bear Creek product is softer, and obturates to fit.

[Wobbly]

I have been using the .454 lead round balls for muzzle loading.

Bullet alloy might be too hard. The one time doing this, I used lead fishing weights that were dead soft, pure lead.

[Pistolet]

While I can't prove anything, it 'seems' as if your barrel is definitely too large for the PD bullets. The proof is in the barrel. To make Mr. W happier you might try slugging it again and see if your results are repeatable.

In the interest of keeping Mr W happy, I will try again and with fishing lead this time.

[Pistolet]

I slugged the barrel again, this time with fishing lead and it is easier to read on a long piece than on a round ball. The result is the same: a little over .452
I will look for .453 or .454 I will not be able to test for a while as I am going to be out of town.

[Pistolet]

To resume this long thread: I was experiencing some carbon fouling with Precision Delta .45ACP 230gr FMJ and Win 231 but none when using 200gr coated SWC. It seems like my barrel is oversized and that I need to use over sized bullets.

I had a talk with a gentleman from Bayou Bullets this morning (I should have gotten his name he may be the owner?). He had strong doubts that I need oversized coated SWC since the ones I have been using seem to work just fine they run clean and have good groups, he does have a good point.  With coated lead it's a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it. I am happy not using FMJ anymore for this gun. Also He recommended Bayou 185gr SWC. and clays powder.

[painter]

To resume this long thread: I was experiencing some carbon fouling with Precision Delta .45ACP 230gr FMJ and Win 231 but none when using 200gr coated SWC. It seems like my barrel is oversized and that I need to use over sized bullets.

I had a talk with a gentleman from Bayou Bullets this morning (I should have gotten his name he may be the owner?). He had strong doubts that I need oversized coated SWC since the ones I have been using seem to work just fine they run clean and have good groups, he does have a good point.  With coated lead it's a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it. I am happy not using FMJ anymore for this gun. Also He recommended Bayou 185gr SWC. and clays powder.

All I have to say, is according to our friend JLJ, when using lead...fit is KING.

Maybe coated will work at a smaller size...maybe not. I'm guessing o/size will work, coated or not for sure, and not cause any problems.

Who do you want to believe, the guy selling, or the guy reloading?

Disclaimer...I'm not saying the guy that is selling bullets giving you the advice is being disingenuous. It might just be his experience.