Author Topic: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...  (Read 5335 times)

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Offline daved20319

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2019, 10:45:09 AM »
Not to be raining on anyone's parade, but it seems like you're going to some extremes to make something work.  I was just wondering why?  In a world of ammo and bullet choices, why go to all that effort for something that won't work the way it should, i.e. out of the box?  Plus, there's the supposed potential legal issues of using "modified" ammo in a defensive shooting.  I guess I get it as a purely intellectual exercise, but I'd still be looking for a different SD load.  Enquiring minds want to know  ;)!  Later.

Dave

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2019, 06:56:29 PM »
  Plus, there's the supposed potential legal issues of using "modified" ammo in a defensive shooting. Dave

Pure myth. No one has ever been able to cite a case where the ammo was the issue. If you are in court over a defensive shooting it is because your decision to use lethal force is in question,not the ammo you used.
Not picking on you by any means but this subject pops up from time to time yet no one can ever substantiate it.

Offline daved20319

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2019, 12:27:59 AM »
  Plus, there's the supposed potential legal issues of using "modified" ammo in a defensive shooting. Dave

Pure myth. No one has ever been able to cite a case where the ammo was the issue. If you are in court over a defensive shooting it is because your decision to use lethal force is in question,not the ammo you used.
Not picking on you by any means but this subject pops up from time to time yet no one can ever substantiate it.

Which is why I wrote "supposed potential legal issues", if I hadn't said it, someone probably would have  ::).  It's just the world we live in, just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean the world ISN'T out to get you  ;D.

Offline PappaWheelie

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2019, 03:33:49 PM »
Lacking enough ammo to complete the above-proposed 4-magazine test, I shot two magazines of stock Xtreme Defender from the RAMI and one from the SP-01. No FTFs with appropriately firm grip (woolduh). One mid-magazine FTF with soft grip on the RAMI, with fortunate angular orientation N-S-E-W and with bullet center above the bottom of the ramp, suggesting that conical leg angle would have likely been amelioratory.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SUHyyQhaXcUxk6F-k1WZ7Qvw5pynUsKv
So I conclude that limp wristing almost certainly was a factor in my casing discharge distance testing, as well as in the April 09 test.
I'm therefore happy that this B.O.B. ammo can be maximally "reliable-ized" with a combination of the conicalized wings and the #5 from my April 09 post, making it more limp wrist tolerant than any simple (i.e., flat nosed) hollow point to compensate for (potential) presence-of-mind lapses under duress with respect to grip firmness. The difficulty in replicating the failure mode with soft grip somewhat amazes me with how un-firm my casing discharge distance testing grip must have been, unless as noted I was favored with Heavenly amplification of an otherwise small risk, not an unlikely scenario!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 11:39:52 PM by PappaWheelie, Reason: "casing" was "cartridge" (2X) »
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CC: CZ 2075 RAMI BD in PappaWheelie Invisible 15 Round RAMI Holster
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Offline PappaWheelie

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2019, 03:43:29 PM »
...it seems like you're going to some extremes to make something work.  I was just wondering why?
Hi daved20319,
It's not extreme to me; as mentioned I spent ~1 hour processing 32 rounds in happy optimization of a suboptimal condition with the otherwise best SD ammo extant. Think of me as one of those weird people
who enjoy making things better, especially if easily done and well worth while.

4/17/2019 UPDATE: MAC Ballistics YouTube added, in support of "best SD ammo extant" claim: watch and listen carefully; there IS a "magic bullet!"
Misstatement at 14:25, calls "+P+" (second shot) "+P" by mistake. Should also say "helical" not "torsional," but the latter still shows "better than your average bear" vocabulary.

You can observe the velocities falling off as the barrel heats up, making the +P+ ballistics gel shots even more impressive, being disadvantaged by their place in line.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 10:52:12 AM by PappaWheelie, Reason: MAC Ballistics YouTube link added »
Member, Gun Owners of America
CC: CZ 2075 RAMI BD in PappaWheelie Invisible 15 Round RAMI Holster
Homeboy: CZ 97 BD, Underwood 45 Super 120 Grain Xtreme Defender ammo
UBG: CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical Urban Grey Suppressor-ready
-all w/ CGW Short Reset Kit/1485-T2 Disco, 5 "Thick" Trigger, polished SA tooth

Offline Joe L

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2019, 04:54:52 PM »
I like weird people!   :) :)
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline MadDuner

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2019, 05:34:05 PM »
I go off on tangents and work to make things what I perceive to be better. 
But will admit that I am unqualified to judge whether my efforts are ever worth while. 

As for weird people? 

I resemble that remark!

Offline MadDuner

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2019, 04:45:27 PM »
Thanks to this thread - Today at the range I decided to double-check the ability of some of my ?carry? handguns to work correctly with +P defensive ammo.  A couple of them have had many tens of thousands of rounds sent down range, and hadn?t been checked with +P lately. I ran a full mag through every one of them.  The range bag was heavy today, and it was fairly costly ammo, but the increased confidence and trust in all of them was worth it.

Zero hiccups from any of them.

Sig P290RS
Sig P226
Springfield XD-E
Springfield XDM 5.25 Match
Ruger P85
Canik TP9SF
CZ75 SP-01 Tactical

OK, the couple of striker fire guns I pretty much only carry at the range, but since I shoot in the desert a lot - they could be in the holster with defensive ammo at some point.

Thank you guys for keeping me on my toes!

Offline PappaWheelie

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Re: Shoot Your Defense Ammo, Duh...
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2019, 12:02:39 PM »
In that Xtreme Defender as carry ammo involves a relatively modest quantity, and would presumably last if desired, for a lifetime and beyond, I treated my replacement (3) boxes to smoothing, after rough shaping with the single-cut file, with successive grits of 320, 600, and 1500 wet-or-dry backed by a flat 1" X 1/8" chip of extruded aluminum, using two-sided tape to hold things together.
I'll further moisten the cruciform tip face (and conical "wings") with Break Free CLP
http://www.czforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5566.msg23649#msg23649
for its excellent "dry" lubricity as "finishing touch" robustness enhancement against the potential for limp-wristing FTFs under duress.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yWIT28L1M614x5-z_MWu8SxzNe2-qyuG
Now all I have to do is remember to always swap out my carry recoil springpack with stock (and then back again) for target practice, which I'm getting eager to do now that the weather has become more pleasant.

Thank God for our "Cyrus wrecking ball to the spirit of political correctness" President; I salute you, Sir!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 05:35:10 PM by PappaWheelie, Reason: Added (dry) Break Free CLP Extreme Pressure CoF link »
Member, Gun Owners of America
CC: CZ 2075 RAMI BD in PappaWheelie Invisible 15 Round RAMI Holster
Homeboy: CZ 97 BD, Underwood 45 Super 120 Grain Xtreme Defender ammo
UBG: CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical Urban Grey Suppressor-ready
-all w/ CGW Short Reset Kit/1485-T2 Disco, 5 "Thick" Trigger, polished SA tooth

 

anything