Does the 75's slide inside frame arrangment really cut down on recoil?

[Metal Wonder Nine Guy]

Everyone seems to say that the CZ has less muzzle rise because the slide rides inside the frame.  Yet when shooting my 75B next to my 92FS, it seems that there is a little more muzzle snap when compared to my 92FS. Of course, both guns have different barrel lockup systems- locking block with the 92, and Browning linkless tilt barrel with the 75.

The 75 also has a slightly lower bore axis compared to the 92.
https://www.guntweaks.com/pistol-bore-axis-comparison-what-is-low-bore-axis.html

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I used to buy into the low bore axis notion but after years of shooting and trying many different guns I don't believe a word of it anymore. My sigs, Berettas,  and others  with their much higher bore axis are just as easy to shoot and in some cases softer shooting than my CZ's and their much lower bore axis.
Lately I find I shoot my pair of Sig M11-A1's faster and more accurately than anything else currently in the stable.

[Earl Keese]

9mm 1911 is softer shooting, so nope.

[Z400acdc]

I love my CZ pistols but have never found them on the low side of felt recoil. I could not wait for a friend of mine to come over and shoot his new shadow2! I had heard how this heavy pistol was such a soft shooter. To our surprise, it did not feel much different than my 75s! We both agreed that my Ruger Target 1911 in 9mm was a much softer shooter.

[Tanners Owner]

I’m not so sure it’s “soft recoil” or reduced recoil from the slide design but rather the ergos of the gun itself and how it mates with your hand that lends to the perception some may say about recoil.

I’ve found the CZs fit my hand the best out of all my guns, and that enables me to shoot better with them.

[briang2ad]

Does the slide IN frame cut down recoil?  The answer is yes, but there are MANY other factors.

See this video:https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xWGYhWKSYw

This compares two 'in frame' guns known to be soft shooting, and one considered excellent in competition.  And, this guy talks about how their dynamics affect his speed shooting them.

Soft and flat are two different things - and how they affect timing and shooting is also different.  Another thing is that compared to some SF guns, the CZ hammer gun is NOT that low in bore axis.  It does have a lower bore axis than MOST hammer guns because of the DA/SA mechanism. 

But, recoil and hammer springs, slide weight, weight distribution, beavertail, grip shape and traction, all play into your ability to shoot te gun accurately and well.  So bore axis is only one of many factors - so gun reviewers who make too much of it are missing the point.

[Walt Sherrill]

A lower bore axis can reduce the amount of barrel rise.  It's basic physics:  the higher above the hand the barrel rides, the more you'll see and feel recoil.
 
Several points: 

• While CZs do have a lower bore axis than some guns (like the SIG DA/SA models) the bore axis of the various CZ designs isn't really all that different than many semi-autos.  (Glocks and several other guns also have a lower bore axis.)

• Having the slide inside the frame does give you slightly less slide to grasp, and that is an issue with some shooters.

• The long-held belief in the advantage of the "inside the frame" slide design is that it allows for better accuracy.  Accuracy, however, is more dependent on consistent barrel/slide lockup, and if you do that well, it doesn't really matter if the slide is inside or outside the frame.  A slide running inside the frame doesn't assure or make consistent slide/barrel lockup more likely.

• Another claim for the "inside the frame" slide design is that as the gun heats up, it tightens slide/frame fit. I've had a bunch of very accurate CZs over the years, but I've never noticed an increase in accuracy as the gun got hot.  A basic point: barrel/sight alignment is the key, and that is a function of how the barrel and slide interact and fit.

With Browning Short-Recoil Locked Breech designs (BSRLB) -- which is the vast majority of 9mm or greater semi-autos (including the CZ 75 and later CZ semi-auto designs) the bullet leaves the barrel before the slide/barrel have moved less than 1/10th of an inch.   The BSRLB design delays recoil force transfer to the frame, by letting the slide move to the rear horizontally briefly, and the only recoil that can affect barrel rise BEFORE the bullet is out of the barrel is the force transferred to the frame during that almost-trivial amount of slide/barrel move with its related recoil transfer.  After the bullet is gone, higher bore axis guns will flip farther, and it'll take the shooter a bit longer to get the gun back on target.  That's where a higher bore axis is most noticeable, but it has almost no effect on accuracy.

More basically, if the bullet is gone before the barrel/slide have moved only a fraction of an inch, there's not much a tighter slide or the slide running inside the frame can do to assure or improve accuracy.

[Tok36]

Interesting discussion.

[Insert]

The slide in frame design does allow you to get a much higher hold on the pistol and I believe it also allows the design to be fairly sealed from the sides (no gap from frame to slide).

[briang2ad]

Inside the frame is only an advantage as to bore axis for 'like' guns.  Glocks, because of the SF design have a lower bore axis even though their slide is 'out' of frame. Most SF guns are low in bore axis, which again has little to do with accuracy.  Low bore axis has lore in the follow up shot parlance, and even here, slide weight, overall gun weight, weight ratio, grip, etc. all play roles. 

Also - low bore axis can have more felt recoil, just less muzzle flip. 

[OldGringo]

Everyone seems to say that the CZ has less muzzle rise because the slide rides inside the frame.  Yet when shooting my 75B next to my 92FS, it seems that there is a little more muzzle snap when compared to my 92FS. Of course, both guns have different barrel lockup systems- locking block with the 92, and Browning linkless tilt barrel with the 75.

The 75 also has a slightly lower bore axis compared to the 92.
https://www.guntweaks.com/pistol-bore-axis-comparison-what-is-low-bore-axis.html

My CZ 75BD also has more muzzle "snap" than my 92FS. The Beretta 92 locking wedge and the light slide make it a uniquely soft shooting 9mm as opposed to a Browning tilting barrel. Compared to other Browning-action metal-framed "wonder nine" pistols such as my West German P226, the 75BD has noticeably less felt recoil.

In addition to bore-axis and the ability to get a higher grip on the pistol, CZ 75s have a relatively heavy steel frame and a relatively low-mass slide. All else being equal, a pistol with a heavy frame and a low reciprocating mass slide would shoot with less felt recoil.

This is true of my SP-01 Tactical, which I find shoots slightly nicer than my Beretta 92 (which has a relatively light slide but also an alloy frame). I would be curious to compare the recoil impulse of a heavy framed CZ (like my SP-01) with a steel-frame Beretta 92.

I know that the 92x 9mm is now available as a competition pistol for IPSC/USPSA production class with a steel frame. Although I honestly don't know why they chose to give it the heavier Brigadier slide which would mostly be useful for major power factor in .40 S&W.

[Metal Wonder Nine Guy]

Everyone seems to say that the CZ has less muzzle rise because the slide rides inside the frame.  Yet when shooting my 75B next to my 92FS, it seems that there is a little more muzzle snap when compared to my 92FS. Of course, both guns have different barrel lockup systems- locking block with the 92, and Browning linkless tilt barrel with the 75.

The 75 also has a slightly lower bore axis compared to the 92.
https://www.guntweaks.com/pistol-bore-axis-comparison-what-is-low-bore-axis.html

My CZ 75BD also has more muzzle "snap" than my 92FS. The Beretta 92 locking wedge and the light slide make it a uniquely soft shooting 9mm as opposed to a Browning tilting barrel. Compared to other Browning-action metal-framed "wonder nine" pistols such as my West German P226, the 75BD has noticeably less felt recoil.

In addition to bore-axis and the ability to get a higher grip on the pistol, CZ 75s have a relatively heavy steel frame and a relatively low-mass slide. All else being equal, a pistol with a heavy frame and a low reciprocating mass slide would shoot with less felt recoil.

This is true of my SP-01 Tactical, which I find shoots slightly nicer than my Beretta 92 (which has a relatively light slide but also an alloy frame). I would be curious to compare the recoil impulse of a heavy framed CZ (like my SP-01) with a steel-frame Beretta 92.

To me, my 75 has more of a slight snap whereas my 92's in-line barrel has more of a push back feel. Both guns have less recoil to me than a P226. Yes, the P226 is another metal framed wonder nine that I'm fond of. But to me, the P226 has more recoil. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about bore axis, but the tall slide might have something to do with that.