P07/09 Kadet reliability vs 75 Kadet

[PA451]

Hello,

Been shooting Kadets on steel-framed 75s for about 13 years now. I've never owned a P07/09. I'm curious, for those who have experience with both, how does the accuracy and reliability of the Kadet made for the P07/09 compare?

Thanks

[Lance Boyle]

I only have a P07 Kadet kit.

I only have a couple trips to the range before the great shut down of 2020.

I get a stoppage just about every magazine with blazer and cci  SV. 

Accuracy is about 4” at 15 yards rested.   That will suffice for a self defense trainer but it is no match gun.  Even includes stoppage drills at no additional cost as a training feature.

[timetofly]

I have all three and I don't remember comparing them at the same time with the same ammo.  The P-09 was very stiff and didn't behave well until it had 3-4 hundred rounds through it.  The others were not picky at all. 

It will be interesting to compare them as well as a SP-01 and S2 Kadet as well.  Sounds like a nice project if it doesn't rain this weekend.

[Joe L]

I don't have a P-07/09 Kadet but I've had a similar design for a Sig P-226.  I do have a 75B Kadet. 

Any .22 that does not have a barrel fixed to the sights is not going to be as accurate as one that does.  The barrel to slide fit just has to be loose to allow the .22 conversion to cycle, and this looseness means the slide+sights are not returned to exactly the same position relative to the barrel as the previous shot.  A 9mm slide can be set to very close tolerances and still cycle.  In other words, the 75B Kadet design is hard to beat.  I'm spoiled, so I never bought the aluminum/polymer conversion for the polymer guns.  That said, there are folks here that have been happy with their P-09/07 .22 conversions.   Maybe they will respond. 

Joe

[timetofly]

It is a little chilly here but I managed to get out to the range for a little comparison of the P-09 and P-07 Kadets VS the Kadet 2.  I threw in a SP-01 and Shadow 2 Kadets for good measure.

Disclaimer, I don't shoot light pistols very well.  I need to work on this more in the future. 

The pistols that were used and the Kadet version along with the weight without magazines.

1) CZ 75 SA frame with Kadet 2             2 lbs 4 1/8 oz
2) CZ P-07 with P-07 Kadet                   1 lb 2 3/8 oz
3) CZ P-09 with P-09 Kadet                   1 lb 4 1/4 oz
4) CZ SP-01 Shadow with SP-01 Kadet   1 lb 15 3/8 oz
5) CZ Shadow 2 with Shadow 2 Kadet    2 lbs 3 1/2 oz

The ammunition used was Federal "Auto Match" 40 grain Solid.  The distance was 10 yards, temp was 45 DegF.  The steel framed pistols all have had a little trigger love but the P-09 and P-07 are stock triggers. 

Hopefully your mileage is better than mine.

[DanMore]

I have had the P07 Kadet for about 2 years now and shot in some competitions with it.

The accuracy depends on what you are doing with it.
I don`t shoot 25m with it, or not often, more shorter distances. So on 7m to 10m you can easily fully shoot out the bullseye of a ISSF round target.



This pic was taken after rapid fire from a distance of about 10m.

I had a target flying around somehwere here, where the center was only one big hole. Found it



Distance 7m to 10m

I love the P07 Kadet, it shoots very nice, pretty accurate and is not ammo picky at all.
I havn`t had any issues with different ammo types and brands. High Quality match ammo, bulk ammo, south african ammo, old ammo...dosn`t matter. The P07 Kadet eats what is served.

[Joe L]

Timetofly and DanMore--Those look great!  Perhaps my bad experience with the Sig P-226 conversion should be tempered a bunch by your good results with the CZ conversion!   I fully expected the CZ version to be better, I just didn't know by how much. 

Joe

[Vinny]

Do the Kadets seem to shoot any better with copper-coated HVRN like Aguila, CCI Mini-Mag or Winchester CPHP?  Accuracy and reliability?
I stopped using SV ammo on my 22 pistols due to FTF"s and cycling issues.

I'm especially interested in the P-07 Kadet for training purposes, but I do understand Joe's point that a fixed barrel with sights attached like my Ruger MKIV Target will undoubtedly be more accurate than a reciprocating slide/barrel/sight setup.

[DanMore]

Timetofly and DanMore--Those look great!  Perhaps my bad experience with the Sig P-226 conversion should be tempered a bunch by your good results with the CZ conversion!   I fully expected the CZ version to be better, I just didn't know by how much. 

Joe

I don`t have the conversion kit. I have the CZ P07 Kadet Pistol.

Conversion kits can be tricky and ammo picky, also the CZ ones. I don`t have any expirience with the P226 conversion kit, but I would think it`s pretty much the same.
My P07 Kadet runs flawlessly, no matter what ammo I give her.

Do the Kadets seem to shoot any better with copper-coated HVRN like Aguila, CCI Mini-Mag or Winchester CPHP?  Accuracy and reliability?
I stopped using SV ammo on my 22 pistols due to FTF"s and cycling issues.

I'm especially interested in the P-07 Kadet for training purposes, but I do understand Joe's point that a fixed barrel with sights attached like my Ruger MKIV Target will undoubtedly be more accurate than a reciprocating slide/barrel/sight setup.

I don`t use HV Ammo in the P07 Kadet, since the wear and tear could be to high.
I only use SV ammo! Brand like CCI, Federal, American Eagle, Geco, Magtech, what ever I get my hands on cheap at my dealer.
I have noticed rather neagtive accuracy results when shooting HV ammo out of a .22 pistol.

A fixes barrel might be more accurate, but the P07 Kadet is better for training if you also have a 9mm P07, since the size (not the weight though) is like the 9mm P07. So holsters and gear will fit. Trigger is really sweet on my P07 Kadet. No work done on ít.

[Vinny]

Dan,
Thanks for the info.
I have 3 nice 22 pistols: Buckmark Hunter 7-1/2", S&W Victory, and Ruger MKIV Target all with fixed barrels and red dot mounted atop the barrel. All three are very accurate setups. They work best for me using copper-coated HV. Not super-fast (40gr@1235-36gr@1280fps), but powerful enough to cycle the pistols with only a very very rare mis-feed.

I wish I could actually try the P-07 Kadet Kit somewhere. But I don't want to take a step backwards in terms of reliability and accuracy, so for now I think I'll stick with 9mm in my P-07 and SP-01 and just split my range time between 9mm and 22 using what I have. 

[Joe L]

Vinny--consider this along with the posts from people who have the conversion/pistol.  If the P-09/07 .22 pistols were a problem, there would be plenty of posts about it.  We don't see hardly any gripes.  That is a good sign, in my opinion. 

Even my 75B Kadet is finicky in the winter.  I have to run hotter ammo to get the gun to cycle well when the air temperature drops below 40F.  When it gets down in the 'teens, my gun absolutely won't cycle with SV ammo.  It may be that the P-09/07 version isn't any more troublesome than a standard 75B Kadet.  Then, if the slide fit is pretty good, accuracy will be good also.  Lots of if's, I know.  Also keep in mind that the P-07 version with a shorter, probably lighter slide, should cycle easier than the slightly heavier (I am assuming) P-09 version. 

I've almost talked myself in to trying a P-07 version just from reading the responses to your post.

Joe 

[Vinny]

Vinny--consider this along with the posts from people who have the conversion/pistol.  If the P-09/07 .22 pistols were a problem, there would be plenty of posts about it.  We don't see hardly any gripes.  That is a good sign, in my opinion. 

Even my 75B Kadet is finicky in the winter.  I have to run hotter ammo to get the gun to cycle well when the air temperature drops below 40F.  When it gets down in the 'teens, my gun absolutely won't cycle with SV ammo.  It may be that the P-09/07 version isn't any more troublesome than a standard 75B Kadet.  Then, if the slide fit is pretty good, accuracy will be good also.  Lots of if's, I know.  Also keep in mind that the P-07 version with a shorter, probably lighter slide, should cycle easier than the slightly heavier (I am assuming) P-09 version. 

I've almost talked myself in to trying a P-07 version just from reading the responses to your post.

Joe

Thanks for your input Joe,
I know you've had considerable experience with the Kadets; your opinion counts a lot.
If you do try a P-07 Kadet adapter I'd love to hear your take. The savings between 9mm and 22 ammo wouldn't take long to pay for itself. 

[DanMore]

The thing is, you can`t compare a Ruger MK IV, a Buckmark, S&W Victory and other such types of .22s with a Pistol like a CZ P07/09 as Kadet (no matter if conversion kit or pistol version like my P07 Kadet.

Where the Ruger, Browning and S&W, aswell as my FN/Browning International II are more Bullseye competition pistols, at least mainly used for that here in Germany, the P07/09 Kadet´s are on the one side Plinking guns and then they are training guns.
They will never reach the accuracy the above mentioned have, what dosn`t mean  the P07/09 Kadet are not accurate. The usecase is just a different one.

And that is the difference!

Here in Germany, when the Glock 44 was announced, the first remarks had been: "The G44 will not be very accurate!"
This is pointed into a comparisson to the olympic style bullsye shooting mainly practiced here in Germany.

Plinking dosn`t really exist here in Germany and .22s are seen as toys the grownups don`t need.

[Joe L]

DanMore--That is a good way of explaining things, it is more about expectations.  I wouldn't think a P-09/07 .22 would ever be a suitable bullseye match gun, but the 75B Kadet definitely is.  I have the Ruger 22/45 but it is my backup gun.  I am just more consistent with the little CZ.  And I like to irritate the guys that shoot the more expensive pistols.
Joe

[Vinny]

The thing is, you can`t compare a Ruger MK IV, a Buckmark, S&W Victory and other such types of .22s with a Pistol like a CZ P07/09 as Kadet (no matter if conversion kit or pistol version like my P07 Kadet.

Where the Ruger, Browning and S&W, aswell as my FN/Browning International II are more Bullseye competition pistols, at least mainly used for that here in Germany, the P07/09 Kadet´s are on the one side Plinking guns and then they are training guns.
They will never reach the accuracy the above mentioned have, what dosn`t mean  the P07/09 Kadet are not accurate. The usecase is just a different one.

And that is the difference!

Here in Germany, when the Glock 44 was announced, the first remarks had been: "The G44 will not be very accurate!"
This is pointed into a comparisson to the olympic style bullsye shooting mainly practiced here in Germany.

Plinking dosn`t really exist here in Germany and .22s are seen as toys the grownups don`t need.

Dan, I appreciate your explanation.  Plinking is fun; if you have a place to do it.
And to some degree, the Kadet can also serve as practice with your defensive platform. All at the reduced cost of 22 ammo vs 9mm. So, I get why it can be a good investment.

However, our range recently banned use of metal plinking targets, shooting trees, cans, etc. so I just sold a Ruger SR22 that was a good plinking pistol. 

I put 100 rounds through my Buckmark today with zero hiccups. Looking back in my log book I don't see a single failure of any kind in many many hundreds of rounds. I won't own a pistol that doesn't have that kind of reliability.

And for me; I'd rather practice my P-07 double taps with 9mm realism; so I guess I'm talking myself out of a Kadet for my P-07.
But, I do understand why people like 'em.

I guess if I'm going to consider a Kadet; as Joe suggests I should look toward the premium 75 Kadet II model for my 75-SP-01 Tactical, or I'd just be disappointed.