P-09 barrel, clean enough?

[jurek]

[...]
Is it caustic residue left in the barrel too long?? Not running a few patches with preservative after a range session??
[...]
"too much cleaning and brushing can ruin a barrel faster than moderate cleaning".
[...]

Vinny, I think you have just answered the common question - how to take care of barrels.
A lot of military shooters agree with the statement about "too much", but the barrel has to be cleaned somehow to be accurate all the time.

I'm not any pro here, but all my barrels seems to be free of any unwanted "junk" inside. I use typical method - solvent patch, 10 - 30 minutes waiting, dry patch, then oil patch and dry patch - after every shooting day.
What I've noticed - one barrel (RIA 1911) has rust after non shooting period of 2 months (thank you Covid-19). Fortunately I was able to take care of it.
So I support this: clean gently after shooting, keep lubed out of moisture.

Anyway - these borescope images and videos are awesome. Thank you guys for sharing. Definitely I will not buy this scope for myself.. I want to have a good sleep every night... (I hate nightmares, especially about barrel's condition  )
Stay safe!

[Joe L]

I think Jurek's practice is the proper path to take--clean it after every range trip--so that the crud doesn't bake in so hard that it is difficult to get out. 

What I was doing was cleaning the barrels pretty well every 2 or 3 months and letting them sit, even in a dry climate with powder residue still in the barrels.  The corrosion is the worst in the oldest barrel.  On the guns that I wasn't shooting very often, sure, I would go ahead and clean them before putting them up because I knew I wouldn't be shooting them again any time soon, thus the corrosion in the Sigs is minimal.  At one time, I was shooting 200 rounds/week through the 9mm pistols, so I was cleaning them every 2k-3k rounds, which I thought was good enough.  Problem is that I don't think it is so much round count sensitive as it is calendar time sitting in a safe with powder residue soaking up moisture.  In other words, 20 shots down range followed by 2 months in a safe may result in the same corrosion damage as 400 shots followed by 2 months in the safe. 

I shot 150 rounds through a Savage Mark II .22 rifle this morning.  I've already removed the fresh carbon...then I made the mistake of taking a look with the borescope.  So now the bore is going to get to soak in some Kroil and endure some brushing every few hours tonight and tomorrow.   I'm pretty sure this rifle needs to have the old baked in carbon removed.  I shot a couple of good groups this morning at 5/8" five shot and 1" five shot, but most were closer to 2".  I could not predict where I was going to hit based on what I was seeing in the scope.  Pretty frustrating.  I can call a bad shot from a red dot on a .45 pistol at 100 yards, but not from a .22 shot viewed through a 20x scope at 100 yards.   So I have another project--"How do I get this Savage rifle to hold 1 moa groups at 100 yards.  Perhaps I will have to back off the magnification, adjust the parallax correctly, and find the ammo that is most consistent.  After I clear the grooves out some.  This accuracy issue is not new.  Rifle was pretty good for a few hundred rounds, then tanked, in 2014.  I put it up (naked eye and patch clean).  Now that I have time to mess with it, I'm going to.  I couldn't even remember the safety positions on the little Savage .22, much less how to use the squeeze bag and how to cope with the very limited eye relief on that Mueller scope.   I need some long gun practice before I get the .308 precision rifle out.  The .308 is boringly accurate and predictable, no fun.  The .22 did not get better sitting in the safe!

Joe

[jurek]

If you feel that the rust is the only problem for the barrel, try OTIS Bore Stick.  Using it make sense if you are not shooting the firearm, however this product is quite good and easy to use corrosion inhibitor.
I've never heard about this stick, until I've attended CZ Demo Day.
Thank you eastman for the stick 

[Vinny]

Thanks Jurek for the Eezox and Otis metal defense bore stick suggestions. I've put them on my shopping list to order.

Some great info in this thread.

I keep very accurate logs for each firearm that are transcribed from my quickly scribbled field notebook including rounds fired, spring changes, battery replacements, ammo reports, etc. and what I call a 'quick' clean & lube with a bore cable & patch vs. a more thorough 'strip' clean & lube. If I didn't do this religiously I couldn't trust any of this critical info to memory.

I found at least for me, bringing and shooting a bunch of pistols to the range was developing some bad habits and now i try to concentrate on one or two max over a few week period. However, that has meant I've gotten a bit lazy about cleaning right after shooting as I'm inclined to think 'I'll be shooting them again in a couple days so why bother'.  Not good, as the powder residue is bad news and can etch in and cake up making it near impossible to remove. I just need to at least run a few patches with a cable and CLP or Ballistol type product down the bore, feed ramp and chamber face after every session.

[Joe L]

Yep, I'm a reformed pistol cleaner now. 

I just checked on the 9mm P-10F barrel and I'm seeing some progress on the carbon in the grooves.  It really may take a few days.  Today I just removed the barrel from the olive jar, ran some pellets and brush strokes, then some dry patches, then repeated.  Also JB Bore Paste on the pellets.  When I looked at it with the borescope, it looked like some tiny chunks of carbon had come off and there was a little more of what may be a smooth groove surface visible.  Every little bit that gets removed exposes what is left to more solvent, so I'm encouraged.  I may have a similar problem with the .22 Savage rifle.  And I don't have a 2 foot long, 6" diameter olive jar!  Or a small stopper.  But I can make a chamber plug, if I have to.  I think the gigantic olive jar would be hard on the scope and stock anyway.   

Joe

[jurek]

Thanks Jurek for the Eezox and Otis metal defense bore stick suggestions. I've put them on my shopping list to order.

Some great info in this thread.

You are welcome 
Most of these things came from other people. I just listened them and followed the recommendations. Not everything I found or heard was correct, but after few test I made I eventually created my own procedure what to use and how to clean my firearms.
I love to see neatness and perfection. I'm not crazy about it, but as my Father said: "whatever you do, it has to be done wright" 

[Vinny]

Thanks Jurek for the Eezox and Otis metal defense bore stick suggestions. I've put them on my shopping list to order.

Some great info in this thread.

You are welcome 
Most of these things came from other people. I just listened them and followed the recommendations. Not everything I found or heard was correct, but after few test I made I eventually created my own procedure what to use and how to clean my firearms.
I love to see neatness and perfection. I'm not crazy about it, but as my Father said: "whatever you do, it has to be done wright" 

Write on Brother!   

[Vinny]

P.S. just spotted this quote from Eastman in another thread discussing galvanic corrosion:

"The biggest firearm issue with galvanic corrosion is dirty rimfire barrels. Lead deposits (the dissimilar metal) and powder fouling residue + atmospheric humidity (source of electrolyte) can lead to pitting."

[jurek]

P.S. just spotted this quote from Eastman in another thread discussing galvanic corrosion:

"The biggest firearm issue with galvanic corrosion is dirty rimfire barrels. Lead deposits (the dissimilar metal) and powder fouling residue + atmospheric humidity (source of electrolyte) can lead to pitting."

So looks like frequent gentle barrel cleaning make sense.

[Vinny]

P.S. just spotted this quote from Eastman in another thread discussing galvanic corrosion:

"The biggest firearm issue with galvanic corrosion is dirty rimfire barrels. Lead deposits (the dissimilar metal) and powder fouling residue + atmospheric humidity (source of electrolyte) can lead to pitting."

So looks like frequent gentle barrel cleaning make sense.

And those Otis bore sticks look promising too for longer-term storage protection.

[eastman]

If you feel that the rust is the only problem for the barrel, try OTIS Bore Stick.  Using it make sense if you are not shooting the firearm, however this product is quite good and easy to use corrosion inhibitor.
I've never heard about this stick, until I've attended CZ Demo Day.
Thank you eastman for the stick 

All of my WWII rifles have Otis Bore Sticks in them.

[CCWLearner]

My Teslong bore scope arrived yesterday.  So I pulled the barrel out of one of my P-07's which has roughly 3-4K rounds through it and had a look.  This barrel should have been clean, and mostly it was, but I found streaks of copper in the grooves:







I last shot this pistol in February, around 200 rounds of FMJ I think.  I didn't soak it in Hoppes afterward.  I think I patched it with Hoppes and Kroil, waiting some hours for reaction and patches to turn blue or green, and when they didn't, then I de-greased it, re-applied Eezox to it, and called it done.

So after I saw these streaks, I patched it out with denatured alcohol, then acetone, to remove the Eezox, then I plugged it with a silicone cork in the muzzle, filled it with Hoppes, stuck a wad of patch cloth in the chamber, and let it sit overnight.  This morning, I uncorked it, wiped it out with the soaked patch from the chamber... no blue or green in the Hoppes I dumped or on the patch... then I blasted it clean with gun scrubber.  I checked it again with the bore scope and didn't see any copper streaks.  So I soaked it with Eezox, scrubbed it 10x with a bronze brush, patched it out, let it sit outside a couple of hours, ran an Eezox-soaked VFG pellet through it a bunch of times, which came out clean... and it's now sitting outside in the sun for the Eezox to soak in good, then I'll wipe it dry later today.  Probably re-scope it tonight or tomorrow.

[M1A4ME]

Got mine today.  Plugged it into the laptop.  Took a look at the P01 barrel (linty, linty, linty).  Not rally getting the clearness I'd like to see.

Also took a look at the P07 barrel.  Saw a couple specks of what looked like dark gray/black "balls" here and there and one rough spot on a land that looked like the metal had peeled up along the edge.

Gotta get out to the shed, mount that hoppy vise on the edge of the bench and do some work to figure out how to get better pictures/better views.

[Joe L]

    You guys have had it now!   

I pulled the P-10F barrel from the olive jar twice today, can't see much change.  Finally got a pick and watched with the borescope while I tried to pick some of what I think is carbon out of the grooves.  Didn't work.  Pick too dull, I think.  But I didn't hurt anything.  I put the barrel back in the olive jar, will try again on Tuesday morning early. 

I spent an hour trying to get all the carbon out of the Savage .22 rifle I shot today and yesterday (poorly).   I finally gave up, light oil patch, put it in the safe.  Most frustrating firearm I've owned.  Group was smaller than I could do with a 1911 pistol from a bench, but not by much.  Big whoop. 

I am going to take Monday off and so some photography instead of firearms stuff, I think.  Two weekend range trips when the range was crowded wasn't very pleasant, and I wasn't shooting pistols so I wasn't really up to the task at hand anyway.  Actually, any day at the range is a good day, but I was slow to recognize it as a good day until I got home and relaxed for a few minutes.

Joe

[skin]

 I posted a picture of the soft plastic cups I use in another post. I get these off plastic tubes. Lot of different sizes.