Powder funnel for Dillon measure used for coated lead bullets

[aasbra]

When loading 9mm and .45 coated lead bullets (more so with the .45) on my Dillon presses l have noticed the coating and sometimes a little lead scraping off when seating the bullets.  When I called Dillon, they suggested adjusting the powder die lower to achieve more flare on the case.  I believe there is already sufficient flare, and more flare just makes starting the bullet seating straight more difficult in my experience.

I have seen a few posts online recommending powder funnels for lead cast bullet and coated bullet applications where the bullets are slightly larger diameter than a jacketed bullet.  Anyone here with experience using the aftermarket or modified powder funnels for the Dillon PM and using cast or coated bullets compared to the standard Dillon PM funnels?

[Wobbly]

2 thoughts....

• I've loaded thousands of coated bullets, some like the MBC IDP#8 measure as big as 0.357", and I've had zero issues or problems with the standard Dillon powder funnel.

If you're getting crescent-shaped slivers off your bullets then you are simply not belling enough. Despite the coarse thread on the Powder Die, the flare adjustments are quite fine and you should be able to achieve very accurate and satisfying belling.

I'm not quite sure where this requirement for bullets to 'balance all by themselves on top of the case mouth' comes from. (I see that a lot in forums, but not in the manufacturer's literature.) The final amount of flare is dependent not only on the setting, but also on the length of the cartridge case. So maybe 85% of my bullets will balance on the case mouth, but a few have had more to drink and will require assistance. But none of them scrape the coating off.


• It's also VERY important to ask about your bullet, before we go pointing fingers at the Powder Funnel. This because unless the bullet is properly stood up, and centered over the case mouth, it can never be expected to glide into the case mouth. So the seating anvil actually has an equal effect on this situation, along with the flare.

In my experience, sometimes the Dillon dies don't do the best job of guiding the bullets. They have no suitable anvil for conicals like the XTP and Precision Delta JHP. And their SWC anvil is way over-size to do any centering.

Personally, I take care of this by making my own....









Hope this helps.

[sevt_chevelle]

You can buy this
https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/mr-bulletfeeder-powder-funnel

Its a stepped or two stage expander just like the popular Lyman M die.  This piece replaces the factory dillon expander.  I have both the 40 and 45 daa expanders, they work great, IMO superior to the dillon expander.

What Ive been doing on my pistol brass lately is running it in two stages on my 650.  I wet tumble without pins for about 30 mins, then on the first pass I size and flare with a Redding Pro expander.  The Redding die is just like a Lyman M die but coated in TiN.  Now I tumble again with pins for about 2hrs.  Now on the second pass am just priming, adding powder, seating and then crimping.  Its a tad bit more work but Ive found it results in better OALs and powder drop consistently.

Getting the bullet to stand straight up came about when bullet feeders got popular, hence the reason the daa expander is made.   
https://www.google.com/search?q=lyman+m+die&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwii24m52oTpAhUNbs0KHYMUBrgQ_AUoAnoECAwQBA&biw=1649&bih=835#imgrc=lx9dObJeSXowAM

[aasbra]

Thanks for the responses.  I adjusted the powder die slightly lower and loaded some more .45 rounds.  May have helped, but I’m still seeing evidence of some coating and a little lead scraping off when seating some of the bullets. 



With dial calipers, I measure the bullets at .453”



while the expander portion of the Dillon “E” funnel at .447”



While flaring the brass neck a bit more helps to an extent, it would seem a little more expansion of the brass for the portion where the bullet seats would help it seat better?

For comparison, I measured my 9mm funnel at .3525”, compared to coated lead bullets typically at .356” or .357”.

[Wobbly]

Thanks for the responses.  I adjusted the powder die slightly lower and loaded some more .45 rounds.  May have helped, but I’m still seeing evidence of some coating and a little lead scraping off when seating some of the bullets. 

I can see it. That's not good.

With dial calipers, I measure the bullets at .453”, while the expander portion of the Dillon “E” funnel at .447” 

It's not so much what the Expander measures, but what it's doing to the brass. What's the expanded brass measure ?

While flaring the brass neck a bit more helps to an extent, it would seem a little more expansion of the brass for the portion where the bullet seats would help it seat better? For comparison, I measured my 9mm funnel at .3525”, compared to coated lead bullets typically at .356” or .357”
 

I still think you need more case mouth belling. If you change the Expander diameter, then the bullet may loosen up in the case mouth too. It's the difference between case mouth dia and bullet dia that holds the bullet in place, not the taper crimp.

 

[aasbra]

I ran 10 mixed head stamp small primer brass through the Dillon sizing die and then the powder die to bell the cases.  Measuring with the same calipers previously used, I found that the case mouth was slightly oblong, ranging from a minimum of .445" to a max of .4480" when measuring where the powder funnel travels down into the case mouth beyond the belled portion.  Most of the pieces (eight of the ten) were .445" to .4470" or .4455" to .4475".  Is it abnormal to have the slight oblong measurement, or is that possibly indicative of an alignment or adjustment issue on the press?

I agree on the risk you point out of over-expanding the case mouth, and understand the taper crimp is not what holds the bullet in place.  Just wondering how much case mouth tension is needed?  Based on my limited 10 brass sample, it looks like ID of the average belled case that went through the powder die at .445"-.447" or .448", is approximately .005" to .008" smaller than the bullet diameter.  Does that seem to be the appropriate amount of interference fit to tension the bullet?  Wondering if I had a powder funnel that was slightly larger if it would help reduce or eliminate the issues with the coating and lead scraping when seating the bullets, without going too large where it would not have proper neck tension to hold the bullet properly once seated?

Maybe I will try a little more belling and see if that helps when seating bullets.  I had it set deeper, but didn't like how much it was working the brass so I backed it down a little.  I realize it is a fine (but important) line to get it right with the hi tek coated bullets.

[aasbra]

Also, I like your custom seating inserts for the Dillon dies.  Wish I still had access to a lathe and mill.  My Dad used to work in a machine shop, which was handy for various hobby projects.

[Wobbly]

You should be using a Powder Funnel 'E'.  I'll measure my E later today and expand some cases with it.

 

[aasbra]

Thanks.  I just double checked, and verified it is the E Dillon powder funnel I have installed.