What sizing die?

[jeepster]

What sizing die do you recommend for 9mm? I currently use Lee, but I have been using .356 bullets lately and getting Wasp Waist and wondering if the Lee may be oversizing? What are the case dimensions for a properly sized 9mm case?

[M1A4ME]

I used a Lee carbide sizing die for a few years and had the same look once a bullet was seated.  Lead, plated, jacketed, all the same.

Plus, resizing 9MM brass was slightly tougher than resizing .223 brass.

I bought a set of RCBS dies with a carbide sizing die and resizing 9MM brass is easy now and they still feed/chamber/fire/eject just fine.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I went to a lee U die a few years back as I ran into neck tension issues on some brass. Never had an issue with any ammo sized with the U die and it cured the tension problem. That wasp waist you refer to I assume is what some call the coke bottle effect once the bullet is seated in the case. That's not an issue at all.

[jeepster]

I do remember reading here that some thought that the Lee sizing die overworked the case and maybe did not taper size the best?

[Wobbly]

What sizing die do you recommend for 9mm? I currently use Lee, but I have been using .356 bullets lately and getting Wasp Waist and wondering if the Lee may be oversizing?

• Reloading is a science in that it is based on hard facts, dimensions to 3 decimals, accurate weights, specific velocities, etc. The only real questions are 1) does the application of all these figures allow the cartridge to properly head space in the chamber, and 2) produce chamber pressures under the SAAMI limits ? As such, how a case looks is a matter of personal preference which has zero bearing on a cartridge's effectiveness or suitability for use.

You may not like the "look" that Lee Sizing Dies leave on the case, but they produce ammo of very high quality that's good enough for probably 95% of the reloading public. Agreed, Lee does take some short cuts for cost reduction purposes, but the low-cost entry-to-median level is where they see their marketing niche.

They are so effective in this portion of the market that off-shore die makers can't even challenge them. There are very few markets left where USA-made products totally dominate. I don't use Lee dies, but I deeply respect the market position they've been able to achieve by offering high quality and high value products.

• Lee is actually under-sizing the 9mm tapered case, which is where the wasp-waist come from, but dimensionally they are good. They simply look funny.

• I think what you really meant to ask was what's the next step up in die brands ? Many people think it's Hornady. You'll pay about $10 more per die set, but the sets come with a replacement parts kits, exchangeable Seating Die anvils, much better Lock Rings, a very nice soft plastic case, and several other high-end features that make them nice.

What are the case dimensions for a properly sized 9mm case?

• The proper cartridge dimensions are set by SAAMI. You can look in your Reloading Manual or you can go to the SAAMI web site and pull the drawings yourself. However, you must understand that most of the dimensions they show are Maximum dimensions for the cartridge and Minimum dimensions for chamber, because they are ultimately concerned with Cartridge-to-Chamber Fits. Because of tolerances, cartridge dimensions smaller than those shown are allowed.... which is where the wasp-waist comes in.


 

[jeepster]

I do not mind the look of the reloads, just concerned that it may effect accuracy in some way and/or possibly shorten brass life.

I have added the nice die lock rings (Hornady) and sent a HAP 125 to Lee and they made a custom seating anvil.

It is just my constant search for improvement that makes me ask these questions, is there something that would perform better?

I also just received 500 new Stareline cases last week and they are supposedly ready to load, however I ran them thru my Lee sizing die and could definitely feel that they were being resized some, but when I measure a before and after, they seem to be the same dimensions.

[SoCal]

The question is did they fit in your case gauge before you put them through the resizing die?  Run them through again and you may feel like they are being sized again, brass will spring back a small amount after being sized.

[jeepster]

Yes the new Starlines do fit fine in the case gauge prior to resizing. I do understand the spring back of brass, I can feel the brass resizing, I let i t rest a few seconds and put it through again and no resistance.

[M1A4ME]

I've read here (and no where else, so far) that there is a belief that the Lee carbide dies don't have a tapered carbide insert in the resizing die.

Most semi auto pistol cartridges are straight walled bottom to top.  The 9MM isn't.  It's smaller in OD at the top than the bottom.  To keep costs down Lee uses a straight carbide insert (to cut costs) vs. a tapered carbide insert.  That's one reason a Lee die produces the resized 9MM case it does compared to other brands of dies.

Read it here, a time or three.

[Wobbly]

I do not mind the look of the reloads, just concerned that it may effect accuracy in some way and/or possibly shorten brass life.

The main thing the Sizing Die does that affects accuracy is concentricty, and Lee nails that. Yes, their method of undersizing probably shortens brass life from an expected 25 reloads down to 20, but most people loose their brass well before that.

Most of accuracy comes from consistent amounts of powder, and consistent, concentric bullet seating.

Lee's largest downfalls are probably their Seating Die (which you've already fixed), their powder measures (which are prone to static cling), and their inaccurate balance scale. But again, those 3 items are still good enough to get 95% of the general reloading public through the first 2 years of the hobby.

I have added the nice die lock rings (Hornady) and sent a HAP 125 to Lee and they made a custom seating anvil.

So you've already been upgrading your die set ! I dislike the Lee lock nuts for their size, but I'm not alone in that department. With new lock rings and the fitted seating anvil you're well on your way.

It is just my constant search for improvement that makes me ask these questions, is there something that would perform better?

Being "low man on the totem pole" means every other die set performs better. But Lee has set the minimum standard so high that improvements are tiny and may not be fully appreciated for years.

I also just received 500 new Starline cases last week and they are supposedly ready to load, however I ran them thru my Lee sizing die and could definitely feel that they were being resized some, but when I measure a before and after, they seem to be the same dimensions.

For any brand of factory-new brass, "ready to load" means ready to run through the entire die set. There were small dimensional differences being made by the dies. Maybe you simply need an improved caliper ?


Hope this helps.

[Wobbly]

I've read here (and no where else, so far) that there is a belief that the Lee carbide dies don't have a tapered carbide insert in the resizing die.

That's a theory that I have voiced in the past. I'd need to buy a set of Lee dies to prove or disprove it, which I'm obviously not going to do. But as a design engineer, if I wanted to make a low-cost sizing die, that's exactly the way I'd design it to speed manufacturing and cut the die cost. It's actually very smart.

[jeepster]

I think I will spend my money on new calipers. Any suggestions?

[Wobbly]

I think I will spend my money on new calipers. Any suggestions?

I just use the $10 (on sale) digitals from Harbor Freight. I put American batteries in them and they run fine. Placing your digital calipers near magnets is what kills them.

I test things before replacing them. Maybe a few tests are in order ? What do your bullets measure after cleaning and zeroing the caliper jaws ?

[jeepster]

Which bullets?

[Wobbly]

Something jacketed (0.355") or plated (0.356"). It will state the generic diameter on the box. Just pick up any bullets you have and compare them to the label. If you're reading the label +0.001/-0.000 then your caliper is accurate.