Author Topic: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!  (Read 2203 times)

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Offline Vinny

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For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« on: May 09, 2020, 03:48:59 PM »
The older your eyes get, the more difficult it is to see the target and irons simultaneously. Something about hardening of the eye lens that won't allow it to flex to make the compromise. I dunno, but it sucks.

At age 65 I was almost ready to give up trying to shoot with accuracy past 7 yards. I was almost better off just point shooting. Adding FO or Big Dot front sights helped, but I could see my vision wasn't getting any better.

Then my instructor showed me his sidearm with a Red Dot. It took some tries to just look at the target with both eyes (my distance vision is OK) and present the dot. He acknowledged there was a learning curve. But the bullet went exactly to the spot where the dot was. I know, sounds kinda lame. That was 5 years ago and dots were still pretty new.

Now, virtually all my pistols have Red Dots. I got back into shooting Carry Optics in USPSA and IDPA. I can't run with the young guys, not even close, but my accuracy is usually among the top shooters even if my speed isn't.

At 70 now, the joy is back. YMMV
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
"Carpe Diem"

Offline Joe L

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2020, 04:48:21 PM »
Vinny--excellent point on red dot for aging shooters. 

I've had cataract surgery, both eyes, and both replacement lenses were set to long distance focus.  I use progressive lenses for reading and computer.  But the progressives are too hard to use when shooting open sights, so I had one set of glasses set up for just the right focal length for a front sight, two handed grip.  I used that in IDPA for a couple of years. 

When I switched to red dots, I always had to view the dot with the very top portion of the progressive lenses I had at the time, but computer and reading were perfect.  It always bugged me that I was having vision inconsistencies.  Late last year I got another check up and another set of lenses, this time with more range at the top of the lens which gave me a much more lens area to work with when viewing the red dot without having to look through just the top 1/4" of the lens.  But I had trouble at computer screen and reading distances, so I had to get a second pair of "office" lenses that I use when at my desk or shop. 

I should have been quicker to address my original problem with the red dot versus how my particular corrective lens power range was spanned.  Everything is a compromise.  Now my only problem is having to remember to switch glasses before going outside or driving.  I can use my normal corrections for the all the non-iron sights now, but still fall back on the fixed power lenses for the iron sights.   

The red dot also eliminates the advantages of a long barrel over a short one due to eliminating the sight radius advantage.  The short barrel will result in a lower muzzle velocity, but that is the only difference, assuming equal lock up.  My P-10S results pretty much confirm this.  If I ever tried run and gun again, it would be with a 3.5-4.0" barrel pistol, not a full size, with a red dot. 

My opinion is that aging shooters who can see well at distance can benefit from a red dot, especially if they have problems focusing on an iron front sight distance.  Point well made, Vinny.

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Vinny

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2020, 05:33:41 PM »
Joe,
Looking at your bulls-eye videos shooting at 100 yards I can tell you've got it sorted out!  ;D

My distance vision isn't perfect, and I've got some astigmatism that creates a bunch of small red dots. For defensive shooting I use a larger 6moa dot or my Delta Point Pro 7.5 moa triangle and the astigmatism just turns it into a solid 'blob' that works fine for center mass.

I do have a set of glasses that correct the distance vision, but I try not to use them shooting as I doubt I'd have time to put them on if I needed to in a hurry. My cataracts will eventually get to where I'll need surgery, at which point I can hopefully address the vision correction too.

I'm just happy my 'glass is at least half filled' and I've got enough to work with and still have fun shoot'in.  O0
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
"Carpe Diem"

Offline DenStinett

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2020, 03:14:17 PM »
Only turned 65, but I started using larger Bullseyes a while back    :o
And these:



Can still hit Sporting Clays at 100 yrds with the open Sights on my M1a though .... go figure !
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline anonymouscuban

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2020, 04:41:36 PM »
Timely post. I've been struggling with this very issue. I'm not as old as you old farts [emoji23] but I'm close. I turned 49 this year. I had Lasik surgery a couple of years ago. My vision at distance is amazing. I can see a 9mm hole on paper at 25 yards. The problem is I can't get a crisp front sight anymore. Worse on cloudy days. And as you mention, snapping focus to my front sight quickly is impossible. To make matters worse, my vision is so clear at distance, my eyes naturally want to keep focus on the target.

I shoot USPSA so this is issue doesn't play nice. I recently started experimenting with single vision glasses. I bought some cheap Rx safety glasses on Amazon at different power. +.5, +.75, +1 and +1.25. I then used them in dry fire and live fire for a few weeks. Found the .75 to work the best. They were the best balance between seeing a clear sight picture but with the ability to see smaller targets at 30 yards well enough. I shot a match with these a couple weeks ago. It was the 1st match in a while where I could recall the sight picture on each target after a stage.

My optometrist finally opened this past Monday. I went to see him. He ended up prescribing the +.75 for my dominant eye. +.25 for my other eye. Single vision, not progressive on either side. He said to try this for a bit and then we may try no Rx on the left eye. Get my glasses in a couple of weeks. Can't wait.

That all said, I'm going to be setting up my back up production gun into a Carry Optics rig later this year. Gonna send out the slide to get milled next month. Will probably go CO division next year.

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Offline Joe L

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2020, 06:11:31 PM »
ACuban--Good to hear about your results.  I had a very gun friendly optometrist, so I actually took my open sight gun to the exam chair and let him dial in the correction while I was looking at the sights with a two handed grip.  You reminded me that he specified a correction in the right eye and none for the left or at least a very mild correction for the left.  I had no trouble with distance vision after wearing the glasses a few times.  Looked at the front sight with the right eye, everything else with the left, worked great for the iron sights. 

With the red dot, you shouldn't need any correction if your vision at distance is good.  Just good zero correction safety glasses.  Any fuzziness in the sight view will be due to the sight lens anyway.  Some are better than others but I haven't had any problems with the Burris or Holosun red dot lenses, however.  I've never had one of the high dollar super good red dots. 

Vision was always the greatest challenge to me, even in slow, fixed target matches.  I made some real progress last year but moved so haven't shot enough to be able to put it all to use, except for some 100 yard demo days.   :) 
 
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2020, 08:16:54 PM »
Hey, without glasses I can't see the front sight.

Without glasses the amber dot in the RMR lens is a fuzzy dot (nice and sharp with my glasses on).

I can put a fuzzy dot on the target all day long.

Once I get sorted out which pistol (M&P 2.0 .45, XD .45, P09 .40, FNS .357 SIG) there will be another red dot pistol in my house.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Vinny

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2020, 09:05:22 PM »
Hey, without glasses I can't see the front sight.

Without glasses the amber dot in the RMR lens is a fuzzy dot (nice and sharp with my glasses on).

I can put a fuzzy dot on the target all day long.

Once I get sorted out which pistol (M&P 2.0 .45, XD .45, P09 .40, FNS .357 SIG) there will be another red dot pistol in my house.
I'm with you.
Those are some nice pistols and taking one that's worked well for you with irons and milling it for a dot makes the choice even more difficult.

I just sent my 2+ year old P365 slide to Fabricated Arms to get it milled for the new Holosun 407K micro dot. They were able to mill in front of the existing irons for BUIS. The 407K should be in my hands in a week or two. Fingers crossed.

However, I did purchase a new slide assembly from SIG with the X-Ray-3 sights that still work well for me at <10 yards. I'll be able to switch slides in a matter of seconds so I really figure I haven't lost an old friend, but gained a new one.  :D
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
"Carpe Diem"

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2020, 06:30:24 AM »
Vinny, once I let others test the smaller Holosuns and prove they work as well as the 507 series I'll be getting at least one and the P01 Omega will be my first steel framed CZ to get a red dot.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Vinny

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2020, 08:02:11 AM »
Vinny, once I let others test the smaller Holosuns and prove they work as well as the 507 series I'll be getting at least one and the P01 Omega will be my first steel framed CZ to get a red dot.
That has potential to be a great combo, able to direct mount very low on the narrow 75 slide, in front of the rear sight without an extra plate. That of course is if the 407K/507K are up to the task. Only time will tell.

I've been in line to be a 'Beta Tester' for a 407K since early February. The good news is that slide cut is emerging as THE footprint for micro optics. The bad news is
Optics Planet just pushed out my order again to early June. Ugh!

Like TV's, the features are improving and prices are dropping. At less than $200 it's worth a shot. If I ever get it.  ::)




« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 09:41:55 AM by Vinny »
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
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Offline the war wagon

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2020, 04:04:52 PM »
2 moa single dots work best for me.  Went to bifocals (finally!) in 2011, and with astigmatism, the smaller the dot, the better!
- Either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape - Sam (Robert DeNiro) in, "Ronin" -

Offline hlpressley

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2020, 09:41:21 PM »
Heck I’m only 39 and pistol mounted optics completely renewed my passion for shooting! So much feedback before and during recoil.

Offline Vinny

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Re: For 'Ol Eyes ONLY! - The Joy is back!
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2020, 08:03:30 AM »
Heck I’m only 39 and pistol mounted optics completely renewed my passion for shooting! So much feedback before and during recoil.
When you say 'pistol mounted' I'm just wondering if you're talking about a frame mounted optic like you see on some Open competition guns? Or a slide mounted like in Carry-Optics??
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
"Carpe Diem"