Author Topic: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards—UPDATE  (Read 2001 times)

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Offline Joe L

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I made some changes to the grip, added the CGW trigger, polished the trigger bar and disconnector, used some heavy grease on the barrel contact points, and actually practiced my trigger pull using a MantisX after the modifications.  All worked well at 100 yards today.

Full length version, about 12 minutes
https://youtu.be/XwdxdNTEZyw

Shorter version with dead time between shots removed and some bench explanation cut, about 6 minutes.
https://youtu.be/V6_Nb8t393o

I can't do any better than this for 10 shots. 

Joe
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 07:55:40 PM by Joe L »
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline CZfan01

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2020, 03:24:15 PM »
Joe L,
Appreciate you taking the time to share your experience with grip modification on your CZs and the results of your efforts. It is helpful as well as insightful, imo.
As to the Holosun sight, is it a 507C and what MOA are you using?
Thanks in advance for your help.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2020, 03:44:41 PM »
Holosun 507C 2 moa dot.  The smaller the dot, the better, for bullseye and long distance.  The Holosun dot is very crisp. 
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline CZfan01

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2020, 05:36:16 PM »
Thank you for the reply.
I am considering the Holosun with the green dot.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards—UPDATE
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2020, 07:54:58 PM »
I got out my P-10S to shoot at 100 yards on Friday after shooting my new CZ rifle.  This did not go well.  Hits were higher than expected (at 100) and I had one unexpected discharge when I sling shot loaded the first round.  I finished the magazine but then packed up the pistol after 8 rounds. 

Here is what I found when I got home.  The fancy heavy grease (Locktite LB 8012) that I used in the videos in the first post had gotten sticky and gummy.  I had also put too much of that grease on the rails and even a touch on the trigger bar last time I lubed the gun.  I’m thinking lock up was not complete and certainly not consistent and the striker safety block may not have been engaged, thus the discharge when I (full spring force release) closed the slide.  (Gun was aimed safely down range but I missed the backer at 100 yards.  Barely.)   I am not sure why the gun went off.  Maybe the striker just bounced off the trigger bar.  After removing all the sticky grease and adding some light oil, the safety function seems normal, but I have some additional checking to do. 

So, I want to recommend NOT using the heavy gease in the firearms.  It seems OK short term, but dries out long term, as in a few weeks.   Plus it is messy, very messy.  Enos Slide Glide Lite works great and won’t dry out or get sticky, and is not messy.  I will go back to that on the barrel contact points. 

Live and learn.  Be careful out there.

Joe
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 08:02:04 PM by Joe L »
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

GMork

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards—UPDATE
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2020, 03:15:12 AM »
...
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 03:25:46 AM by GMork »

Offline Winkel

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards—UPDATE
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2020, 10:42:22 AM »
Joe,
Thanks for updates.  When you are doing your long range shooting, what ammo do you prefer?  I assume you are using a standard 115 gr FMJ?  Have you found one brand to be more repeatable than any other?

Or do you hand load?

Thanks,
Winkel

Offline Joe L

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards—UPDATE
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2020, 11:02:55 AM »
Atlanta Arms (AA) 115 JHP is about all I use.  I bought some IMI 9mm 115 JHP a few months ago and that seemed to work pretty well, but I can't claim it is as consistent as the Atlanta Arms ammo.  I will shoot some more of it this coming week.  I don't reload so I am dependent on what I can buy.  I have a little more AA 115 JHP left but I am on the waiting list for another case or two. 

When you can see a few good groups at 100-200 yards with a pistol, you are very hesitant to try anything else.   I'm sure there are other suppliers that are pretty good also, I just stopped looking when I had consistent results from the Atlanta Arms ammo.  And that was maybe 8 years ago.  Not cheap, but neither is my time.

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Joe L

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards—UPDATE
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2020, 11:26:03 AM »
Upon further review, I'm pretty sure my double problem was a result of a sticky trigger bar.  I had the 10320 striker in the pistol and I swapped it out for the 10300 and could still force a double on the bench, not every time, but maybe 1 of 10 times, similar to when the 320 was in the pistol.  More parts cleaner and air to get the trigger bar to move completely up and back and I think it is fixed.  I thought maybe one of the trigger bar springs had broken or somehow come loose or something like that, but, no, I think I got just enough of that heavy grease on the trigger bar to gum it up.

I am going to chalk this one up to gun owner error, as in, I used way too heavy of a grease in a firearm that only needs a drop of oil.  I don't think any of the aftermarket parts are of concern here at all.  I'll probably put the 320 striker back in the gun for range use only, but leave the 300 in place for carry.  That is the way it should be done anyway. 

A little background.  I went to the heavy grease to try to take up some clearance on the P-10C, so that the barrel would lock up in exactly the same position from shot to shot.  That gun's barrel has a little vertical play (0.008") and I could see it affecting the 100 and 200 yard groups.  The heavy grease worked well in the C, so I tried it in the S and F, and left it in those guns although there was very little if any difference in groups at long distances, because those barrels are tight in the slide anyway.  What I failed to anticipate is the gooey grease thickening up over time as the light ends evaporated.  When it is first applied, it is fine.  Apparently a month later the stuff thickens up.  Not good for the tiny parts in a firearm, probably OK for heavy equipment. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Winkel

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards—UPDATE
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2020, 01:10:52 PM »
Atlanta Arms (AA) 115 JHP is about all I use.  I bought some IMI 9mm 115 JHP a few months ago and that seemed to work pretty well, but I can't claim it is as consistent as the Atlanta Arms ammo.  I will shoot some more of it this coming week.  I don't reload so I am dependent on what I can buy.  I have a little more AA 115 JHP left but I am on the waiting list for another case or two. 

When you can see a few good groups at 100-200 yards with a pistol, you are very hesitant to try anything else.   I'm sure there are other suppliers that are pretty good also, I just stopped looking when I had consistent results from the Atlanta Arms ammo.  And that was maybe 8 years ago.  Not cheap, but neither is my time.

Joe
Thanks Joe.  Yes, I would expect any variation in your ammo would result in velocity differences that would really show up at those distances.  Years ago, I did a 50 yard test with several ammos.  Looking back, I can see that my test was inconclusive because my trigger control was terrible. 
I've since gotten better and will try it again one day when ammo becomes more available.
I have an M&P 9 Shield that I've really grown to like.  It's really making me want to pick up another striker fired gun since I'm pretty sure my middle daughter is going to take it when I give her the choice of 9mms in my stable.  I got her a 75D a while back but it's locking open mid-mag on occasion so I just don't trust it yet. 
The other day, I did a little cleaning on the M&P and took it out back for a quick shot at 50 yards to verify POA/POI.  Resting on my deck rail, I put a shot on target about 2" off center. 
These little guns shoot way better than most people realize.  Of course, you have to do your part!

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Some modifications to my P-10S helped at 100 yards—UPDATE
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2020, 10:35:30 AM »
So, I want to recommend NOT using the heavy grease in the firearms.  It seems OK short term, but dries out long term, as in a few weeks.   Plus it is messy, very messy.

This is my finding as well.

ESPECIALLY at this time of year when things are cooling off, a lube that worked great in August heat, can cause your pistol to behave completely different in October cool. Shooters need to be aware that a shift of 15°F is all it takes for these greases to behave in a completely different manner.
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