147gr Match Winner from RMR

[Wobbly]

I was pleasantly surprised to find that the 147gr jacketed "Match Winner" that's made in-house at Rocky Mountain Reloading (RMR) can be safely fired in CZ pistols. I had bought some for my nephew to use in his Glock, but when he was late bringing me the gun, I decided to see if I could run the needed tests in my SP01.



These have been loaded with 4.7gr Alliant BE-86 powder at an OAL of 1.110" to fly at 1000fps in an attempt to mimic the recoil of the ammo he uses on duty with the county sheriff's dept.

The selection was made based on the great reports I keep hearing on other forums about this line of bullets. I did run off some extras so I can do some accuracy testing, but that's going to need to wait until the end of the week.

We'll see. 

[anonymouscuban]

So did they chrono at 1000 fps?

That things moving!

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[anonymouscuban]

By the way, I've been shooting this bullet in 124gr for a few months now. Really love it. Especially the price.

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[Wobbly]

So did they chrono at 1000 fps?

Did you not see the last BE-86 test data....

Equipment
Bullets:      Rocky Mntn Reloading (RMR) 147gr Match Winner TCFP
Brass:        Federal Cartridge (F.C.)
Powder:     Alliant BE-86 (4.7gr max)
Max Vel:    999 fps
Primer:      Winchester WSP
OAL:         1.110"
Pistol:       SP-01 Tac
10 rounds each, slow fired
80F, clear and bright sun
ProChrono DLX

Load      Avg Vel           ES         SD
4.5             970              23         07
4.6             977              34         12
4.7 *          998              38         10
4.8           1018              42         12  Over Max Load

Notes
- Testing done to find a 1000fps load with 147gr to emulate Federal 147gr SD loads

I like to be accurate in what I do, but an average of 998fps is close enough for "government work". 

[eastman]

was 4.8 gr considered over maximum load because you were trying to duplicate the 1000 fps load or was that an absolute pressure maximum for the combination of powder & bullet?

[Wobbly]

Was 4.8 gr considered over maximum load because you were trying to duplicate the 1000 fps load, or was that an absolute pressure maximum for the combination of powder & bullet ?

My Alliant load data showed 999fps as the velocity of the Max Load. Therefore I try to stop when I reach that velocity due to pressure concerns.

[jwc007]

Sounds like a winning combination to me!   

I may have to revisit the 147 grain Bullet weight! 

[m1a_scoutguy]

WOW,Wobbly this thread reminded me that I bought 250 of these last year to try and NEVER did! Now I gotta dig through all my ammo cans and find the darn things, LOL! I typically shoot 148 cast/powder coated so I should be able to find a decent starting load but will start lower and work up as usual! Thanks for reminding me,,LOL

[Wobbly]

My nephew is VERY impressed with the accuracy. He's practicing his qualification training run and holding a 4" group. He's simply delighted.

[aone]

I just received some Precision Delta 147 FMJ flat points which look very similar to the RMR Match Winner.  These plunk at 1.177 in my SP01.  My shortest CZ is a PCR, which is typically .015 shorter, so even the PCR should plunk at full mag length of 1.160". 

I bought these to shoot subsonic in my mpx, but they *should* work in the CZs as well.  I hope to test these tomorrow am.

[Clint007]

Wobbly, what were your initial concerns about safety when you first looked at this? Was it the long bullet length in a short CZ chamber?

c

I was pleasantly surprised to find that the 147gr jacketed "Match Winner" that's made in-house at Rocky Mountain Reloading (RMR) can be safely fired in CZ pistols. I had bought some for my nephew to use in his Glock, but when he was late bringing me the gun, I decided to see if I could run the needed tests in my SP01.



These have been loaded with 4.7gr Alliant BE-86 powder at an OAL of 1.110" to fly at 1000fps in an attempt to mimic the recoil of the ammo he uses on duty with the county sheriff's dept.

The selection was made based on the great reports I keep hearing on other forums about this line of bullets. I did run off some extras so I can do some accuracy testing, but that's going to need to wait until the end of the week.

We'll see. 

[Wobbly]

Wobbly, what were your initial concerns about safety when you first looked at this? Was it the long bullet length in a short CZ chamber?

D. All of the above.   

• Glock 23, which I don't know doink about
• Replacement barrel by KKM, which I know even less about
• Conical bullet, which typically needs a shorter OAL
• Internal taper of the brass, which comes into play with 147gr and short OALs
• Getting a 147gr up to 1000fps (previous best was ~850fps)

Safety primarily hinges on getting the gun to go fully into battery. It just seemed like there was a good possibility that everything would be working against me... might need to try 2 or 3 different bullets to find one that worked... and the final choice would not be of a grade that gave the desired accuracy.

My nephew has a tough enough life right now. Last thing he needs is "practice ammo" that he can't practice with.

[kip.duff]

Mr. Wobbly:

Any advice/experience on these bullets with VV N330 in HK P2000 (3.66" barrel)? 

I was working up some Hornady 125 gn HAP loads, but they won't allow them in the indoor firing range (hollow point).  So I bought a bunch RMR Match Winner 124s and 147s.  Could not find any direct load info for this bullet with VV N330.  I saw VV N330 data for Hornady XTP 147 gn of 3.9 - 4.3 gn @ OAL 1.142.  I figured start conservatively at 3.5 gn.  Working OAL for this bullet is 1.122 (max OAL minus 0.015")  in my HK P2000.

Unrelated: just set up the HK P2000 with SIG Romeo One red dot.  Shot 50 rounds of Federal Syntech 150 gn flat points (red polymer coating).  I was blown away by the accuracy of these rounds at 15 yds.  Did not chrono.  Very little recoil- and barrel quite cool also.  I was not expecting that.

[Wobbly]

Kip -
• Welcome Aboard !

• As you may have seen, we have general N330 load data for CZ handguns here:
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=103341.msg800979#msg800979

Sadly, that does not include any 147gn, an oversight for sure.

• Your 125gn Hornady HAP and RMR 124gn Match Winner will be very, very much like any testing notes your see done with the Precision Delta 124gn FMJ. They are as close as bullets can be dimensionally.

• We don't do much work with HK pistols for obvious reasons. However, if you can provide your barrel length (hood to muzzle) then I'm certain I can find a close equivalent and do some testing.

• We recommend that you always begin testing at the published Starting Load. Even if it's only 3 rounds. First you want to insure that your results jive with the published data, or your velocities are UNDER those published. Well under will be the expected, routine results, but you don't know until you test over a chrono.

As always: Distance from the muzzle to the chrono, and lighting conditions make for the 2 largest variables in the results.

• Indeed, I read a lot of good things about Federal Syntech rounds, but fortunately (or unfortunately) won't be buying much factory ammo for the remainder of my life.

• Seems as though you've spend some time in our reloading instructions and I hope that has been time well spent for you. How else can we help you ?

Regards

[kip.duff]

I'll probably start final decisions on a load this week- back to work tomorrow.  Also, I want to learn the BlueTooth interface on my RCBS Chargemaster Link electronic scale so I have verification of loads and documentation. 

Barrel length is 3.52 on the HK P2000.

Thanks.....