D650 Neck sizing only - pumping out 6.5 CM - Plunking rounds in rifle chamber

[newageroman]

Ok here is the setup I'm now running - a bit of fine tuning, but that will be next round.



So... My question for today is...
With Bolt Action Rifle pointed in a safe direction and finger off the trigger and safety on...
Does anyone run their match bullets through the rifle and just eject them on the floor to make sure that they all cycle?  I mean we do this for pistol right, so why not rifle? you could also inspect rounds that may be a touch hard to close in a secured manner, as opposed to on the range or on the clock.

D650 toolhead setup -

• Forster bushing die adjusted out so to neck size only
• Powder drop die - On the Left side I drop and trickl to measured charge, then dump it in carefully station 2
• empty/inspection
• RCBS Match master Micro adjust seating die
• empty

First time using a micro die seating , it's pretty nice for rifle - was gifted to me I would not have spent the $$ on it. Kinda sad the other RCBS full lenght/bushing die die in this set just sit in the box (I had the Forster first and have the bushings for it)

After pondering it, Plunking rifle rounds seems like it would be a trade off.
Pro: your guaranteeing ammo will run
Cons: fit might not be quite as tight/straight

What say you guys?

[Ohmslaw]

You can not problem but get a case gage and bullet comparator. You can see if Bullets not jammed into lands by measuring it. I bushing size for precision rifle use collet size on varmint rifles. Use concentric gage make sure they are straight. Even neck sizing you will have to full length or body size so they will chamber. They will grow and not chamber if you don’t full length size. Full length that just bumps shoulder back .001-.003 is best method will always chamber if you kept them trimmed and oal right for your rifle
Hope this helps little
Ohmslaw

[Wobbly]

In theory the way you are loading sounds fine. Very inventive. However, I'm not sold on 2 of your ideas...

• The need to test every round in the chamber. What's that about ? (You're not considering climbing to a roof top in Seattle are you ?) You build one 'test cartridge' and check its dimensions, chamber fit, et al... and then build all the others just like it. Bolt actions don't cycle that fast. We test our pistol ammo because it feeds and loads in a fraction of a second, but that scenario is not present in a bolt action rifle.

• Loading live ammo in your home as a test is simply a no-no. This 'test cartridge' is going to be without primer and without powder. Loading live ammo when you're not on the firing line violates one of the 4 basic safety rules.

I got a friend at church. Decorated Marine sniper; knows his stuff. Checking ammo that way one day and the gun went off. Bullet missed his only child, a 9yo son, by inches who happened to be sitting in the next room. That gun hadn't misfired before or since. Poop happens. Don't do that.

 

[Earl Keese]

I saw Jerry Miculek on FB the other day checking rifle ammo before a 3G match. He was using a case gauge. Granted, that ammo was for an AR but I still wouldn't be comfortable cycling live ammo through a bolt gun repeatedly.

[newageroman]

The few times I have cycled live rounds its in the back yard with barrel pointed down to the ground. I may have said floor before, so thanks for that correction.

I'm thinking in terms of timed PRS style matches, your on the clock on a set of targets. I could see how final seating/running live rounds would provide a benefit in terms of preventing malfunction or hard to close bolt. Have you ever been on the bench at the range and had a round that requires a bit more force to close the bolt, If its 1 in 10 or so with the others being smooth as silk, tit WILL throw you off - or it would me anyhow. now imagine that your in a match on your third target at 375 yds, missed once and on the second shot with 15 secs to go - then the "sticky" round shows up...  That's the scenerio where a fully plunked/chambered round testing would have made a difference.

I have a comparator, a box full of reference bullets (multiple calibers) with COAL written on with sharpie, I know about shoulder bumping and full length and trimming - got all that covered. I still plan to full length size every 4th round. My rounds aren't anywhere close to the lands. I load short of mag length and this rifle has about 2k rounds on it and i've never seen any marks on the bullets unless I load specifically for jump to the lands and outside of mag length. In this case a "more difficult/but not HARD to close bolt (with this ammo setup) would IMO be related to the shoulder of the case. If the round is chambered, would it not "finish shoulder bump" the round, creating a tighter chamber matched seal, where as bumping the shoulder back would not be as tight?

So back to my question: let me rephrase it a bit: Lets say you have a round that is just a bit harder to close the bolt, but it does close. Would it be a more accurate bullet that cycle in the chamber or if you ejected it and put it back in and closed the bold (easy this time) would it be just as accurate/more accurate?

I do need a runout gauge. That will most likely be my next purchase toolwise.

My range has lots of LR comps and I want to stretch it out some more with consistency. My best shot the other day was hitting the slender strip of a circle hanger at 600 yds. I was just a bit high, but dang windage was legit!

[2morechains]

I dabble a little in PRS with a 6.5CM and my loading sessions are usually in batches of 50-100 rnds at a time following a match or practice session.  So I understand your desire to load on a progressive, and I’ve seen a few videos from the 6.5Guys and ULReloader on Youtube describing how they reload for precision rifle on a progressive.  But my preference is to stick with my single stage for 6.5CM.  Note, I do reload .223 on my Dillon, but that is for 3-gun accuracy, not PRS. 

I’m on my 4th or 5th reloading with my collection of 6.5 brass, and the last reloading session I switched to a FL-match die rather than a neck-size only die since the case comparator indicated I needed to bump my shoulders back four-five thousandths.  I kept chamber checking a sample of resized brass in my gun until I got it bumped back enough, but that was with unloaded brass.

Once I got the measurement set, I finished prepping the rest of the batch.  I haven’t shot that batch yet, but next time I do I’ll check the fired brass on the case comparator to determine if I can neck-only size it or if I need to use the FL die again (hoping to just neck-only size).   

As far as chamber-checking a loaded round, I’ve done it and I’m comfortable with my trigger discipline when I do it, but its not part of my reloading process and certainly not for every round. 

I’ve been reading and watching Youtube videos about the Forster Neck Bump sizing die and will probably get one to complement the FL-match and neck-only sizing dies that I have.  That might also be an interesting range session to test the accuracy/consistency of the rounds that have been FL, neck-only, and neck-bumped for groups @ 100 and then at distance.   

[newageroman]

I will concede another reason I'm runnin the 6.5 on the 650 is that I had extra toolheads laying around from when I bought a 6 pack. I recently got my 03A# bolt action back, so I've been loading rounds for it. I started with it actually, on purpose, to work out the system of loading before going to the more accurate match rounds of 6.5. All the shell plate, and primer setup are the same, just swap the head.

So you seem to be adept at what I'm getting at. I guess my question is would a Finish/Shoulder bumping in the chamber be a more accurate round (while testing functionality), or no?

I've not really heard of many doing this, it's just a though - topic of discussion. Thanks for sharing! open to more pros/cons/discussions...
 

[2morechains]

So you seem to be adept at what I'm getting at. I guess my question is would a Finish/Shoulder bumping in the chamber be a more accurate round (while testing functionality), or no?

I've not really heard of many doing this, it's just a though - topic of discussion. Thanks for sharing! open to more pros/cons/discussions...

I haven’t heard of anybody doing it either, which is not to say some aren’t.  For me, I’m going to stay with what Ive been doing. 

I prefer to do all my brass prep (which includes adjusting headspace) on unloaded brass that has been annealed.  I use the case comparator tool, my die(s), and my chamber to figure out just how much shoulder bump I need (if any).  I only have one 6.5CM rifle, so all my ammo is intended for just that one gun, allowing me to be a little more precise about matching headspace to my chamber. 

I know it is debated a lot online whether FL sizing is better than neck-sizing, but what I’ve found is sometimes I only need to neck-size, but now and then (i.e. after 4 or 5 firings) I need to bump the shoulder back.  Hence the FL match die that I’ve been using, or the Forster neck bump die that I’ve been looking at. 

[Wobbly]

I had extra laying around from when I bought a 6 pack.

You bought a 6-pack and didn't invite us over ?   

[newageroman]

lol, I'll buy a 6 pack for anyone that comes to visit to reload or hit the range, after wards of course. I can't drag anyone around here to the range except total noobs that I just can't stand to be around in any setting, much less for 1/2 a day around loaded firearms.

It was a hard pill to swallow to buy 6 toolheads at a time just to get a break on shipping, but I'm glad I did. I have to make more stands now. I'm still running with no casefeeder and a single powder drop, but so still worth going blue.

I only have one 6.5 rifle right now and don't see getting another, I have 2 main bullets for this gun both mag length, makes it easier for sure. One is slow plinker I rainbow in, the other is a lighter burner bullet to cut the wind for LR.

So I've been thinking about it and I think what I will do is just shoot this batch and see if any have harder to close bolt. Because this is a new loading process, with new seating die, I'm just going to see if any are a little tight. If they are, I'll eject them and set them to the side then at the end of the session, try feeding them, and fully closing the bolt, eject and feed them again and see if they go in smoother or not.

I called my LR mentor that helped me get to 1k on this rifle a couple years ago and passed the idea by him. He could not think of any reason right off hand that it would deter accuracy, but did offer one thing which I might consider. He mentioned that on the ones that may be harder to close, set them aside AFTER firing, then clean and deprime, and then running that empty brass through the chamber prior to loading to bump the shoulder directly to chamber dimensions, then check length and trim, then neck/bushing size (no need for shoulder bump), then prime and finish loading as normal. This way you are more safely bumping the shoulder (with empty case) in the chamber (as opposed to a loaded case). This totally makes sense to me the only thing is I might check brass trim length before and after neck sizing with the bushing to see if it grows any with JUST neck sizing step - the reasoning there is, If it does not grow on neck sizing only, I won't have to pull brass off the shellplate to measure when loading then put it right back on the shellplate -  will make loading MUCH faster on the progressive.

While I had him, he told me about his new 2M rifle that is going to weigh 37 pounds. insane, has 10 (light loaded rounds with over 100gn of 50BMG and says those are light loads LOL!). He also said that a lot of the guys with the 2M builds have a rubber mallet to beat the bolt closed and then sometimes have to walk back to the truck for a BIGGER F H to beat the bolt back open. just want to be sure that I'm NOT talking about, condoning or considering this for my particular rifle application.

[Wobbly]

Someone makes an adapter that allows an RCBS Uniflow to be attached to a Dillon. I've seen it somewhere. That way you could leave the case in the shellplate... along with the seat belts buckled, and seat backs and tray tables in their upright position.

[david s]

Dillons powder measure adapter part number 20029 it's part of the RL 500 press series. Photos is of a Dillon powder die attached to the adapter and a Lyman drop tube on the right.
                                                                                                                                   
   

[david s]

Sorry forgot something, you also need a RL 450 powder die part number 20308. Been awhile since I used it.

[Wobbly]

Thanks for adding that.

I knew I wasn't hallucinating.... again. 

[newageroman]

Yes, I thought about that, but they you are giving up weighed/confirmed powder charges. I looked at the dillon parts and just didn't want to pay the $$$ honestly. I'd rather just buy another dillon powder measure and convert it to the large drop pocket.