Author Topic: CZ MTR compared to Savage BTV borescope video, .22LR  (Read 371 times)

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Offline Joe L

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CZ MTR compared to Savage BTV borescope video, .22LR
« on: October 02, 2020, 08:12:24 AM »
Here is a borescope video I shot at the shooting range after my friend and I had shot around 50 rounds.  The differences in the two barrels are pretty clear.  I have since ordered an MTR. 

The Savage is a good rifle, just not a match grade rifle.  It is good for sub 2" groups at 100 yards if it is clean, but is inconsistent.  I've watched my friend shoot an average of 1" groups with no flyers with his MTR and he is a relatively new shooter so he will only improve on his results.  I just get too frustrated shooting the Savage.  I think I was expecting too much. 



"Don't ever aim your borescope at anything you don't intend to clean...or buy!"

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline 10-96

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Re: CZ MTR compared to Savage BTV borescope video, .22LR
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 08:57:16 PM »
Quote
I just get too frustrated shooting the Savage.
    Yeah, a fella has to wonder about Savage these days.  For years, they built quite the reputation from centerfire F-Class shooters to just about everything rimfire.  How much of it was just innerweb legend? Dunno.  Nobody has the time or funds to test everything, but looking at some of the recent efforts of others' side by side tests, I'd say it's safe to say either Savage is in a bit of a decline in quality, or everybody else stepped up their game and knocked Savage off of their perch.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.

Offline Joe L

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Re: CZ MTR compared to Savage BTV borescope video, .22LR
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 09:39:22 PM »
I have a Savage 10 in .308 that is an excellent rifle, very reliable, predictable, consistent.  It is just the rimfire that was a little off.  So far, the CZ rimfire is just a better rifle, in my opinion.  I have friends that use CZ centerfires for big game hunting, and they are very happy with their rifles.   They have quite a good reputation among the hunters.
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: CZ MTR compared to Savage BTV borescope video, .22LR
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2020, 08:59:01 AM »
At one time Savage made/sold a .308 bolt action guaranteed to shoot 1/2 MOA groups out to 800 yds. or so - with Federal match ammo.

I was really excited about it till I read the specs and saw it was a single shot rifle (not slot in the bottom of the receiver made the receiver stiffer).  It still would have been a heck of a shooter, just one shot at a time.  Would have made a great varmint rifle in a smaller caliber.

Joe, do you think differences in barrel finish (internal barrel finish I should have said) can cause random flyers?

Or is it more likely to be something about how the components make up the rifle just don't work together the same round, after round, after round?
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline Joe L

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Re: CZ MTR compared to Savage BTV borescope video, .22LR
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2020, 11:20:22 AM »
M1A4ME--This rifle, a combination of things, I think, since I started seeing some improvements by making some changes.  The Mueller scope I had was not good for me and my eyes, so going to the Vortex helped, even with less magnification.  Redoing the bedding job seemed to help a little.  Just getting some trigger time helped. 

But the biggest improvement came when I got rid of the carbon ring just downstream of the chamber.  In other words, deep cleaning.  That took care of the first round flyers after each magazine reload.  Then, with the other changes, I was able to identify .22 ammo that seemed to shoot better than the Norma I shoot in the Kadet.  But I could never have identified the good ammo until the other issues were eliminated.  That is the key--getting it good enough so that I could find a good ammo. 

So, now the remaining issue is consistency, and that IS affected by the bore finish and chamber/leade area machining.  One day, the gun it good for 1 moa, on another 2 moa.  I am not sure why, but pretty sure it has to do with inconsistency of powder residue buildup not only at the chamber, but on down the barrel.  I don't know how often to clean it or what to use.  I THINK a deep clean after every range trip is best--that is, VFG pellets, Kroil, and JB Bore Paste but I pretty much quit on it when the CZ arrived. 

The CZ seems to be consistent from day to day, at least so far.  That may change after another 1000 rounds, I don't know.  What I do know is that the chamber and leade area is very smooth with no rough edges or gouges, and that should help the consistency.  We'll see. 

My Savage .308 heavy barrel is fantastic, with the Federal Gold Medal Match 175 Sierra Match King ammo.  No complaint here.  But the action and barrel are in an XLR chassis and it has a Bushnell DMR (?) scope on it that cost more than the rifle.  I only shoot it in New Mexico at the 500 meter range any more.  It is always a good shooter, always. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: CZ MTR compared to Savage BTV borescope video, .22LR
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 06:59:45 PM »
Joe, if the Savage is rougher and has random areas of different finish/smoothness then it could be a build up of crud from the bullets/powder causing issues.

Number of rounds fired, cleanliness level at the start of the session, brand of ammo may/may not contribute to getting that area dirty faster??  Who knows.  But consistency is good.  Promotes a more consistent performance and makes it easier to ID something that was different "that day."
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline Joe L

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Re: CZ MTR compared to Savage BTV borescope video, .22LR
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2020, 09:38:03 PM »
I am going to shoot the CZ for a while and come back to the Savage when the grand kids are older.  I just need a break. 

The centerfire pistols and even the Kadet are very consistent.  Pistols are always good.  Shooter has good days and bad days! 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F