Author Topic: First competition shoot  (Read 7346 times)

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Offline JBruns

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First competition shoot
« on: December 07, 2020, 09:16:32 AM »
I decided to check out a local USPSA match last weekend. I shoot a lot, but at an indoor range where it's just point and shoot. Figured USPSA would be something different, and more fun. Everyone there, and I mean everyone, was super nice, spent a lot of time showing a total newbie the ropes and coaching. Really welcoming atmosphere. My thoughts going in were to take my time and make safety my #1 goal.

So I go through the 4 stages with my "squad". Shooting my P320 X5 in carry optics (working on getting my S2 Orange milled for an optic). My accuracy was good, speed (of course) was not. No DQ safety violations, but I do have some things to work on.

But after a couple of days of reflecting on it, I do have some reservations about the sport. After seeing the scores, where I was 19th out of 21 in the overall (which I expected), I was struck by the fact that accuracy is not emphasized very much. I had more Alpha's than anyone else at the match (and that with failing to engage 2 of my targets in one stage). I know that by taking my time, I was more accurate, but I'd think that would be more important. It's my opinion, and that is worth exactly what you paid for it, there should be a much bigger points differential between Alpha's and Charley's.

The other thing that bothered me a little is pre-walking the stage. I guess I look at this sport like "practical" practice for a real world (God forbid) SD engagement. Walking the course and no-gun practice kind of flies in the face of that. But it would be hard to "hide" the course from shooters too. It's not really practical for real world though, when you know how many "threats" there are and exactly how you're going to engage them before you start.

I know the game is what it is, and is certainly not going to change for me. These are just things that, as a first time ever competition shooter, struck me as odd. I may try an IDPA shoot next, but I assume speed is more important than accuracy there as well. If so, these types of games may just not be for me, I guess. I'm certainly not "hooked", as several folks at the match said I would surely be.

Offline nonamehavei

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2020, 11:12:14 AM »
In USPSA the score is formulated by calculating your speed and accuracy. As far as the difference in points and how it relates to real world scenarios, do you think it would be more important in a shootout to get the shots off faster and be a little bit outside of center mass vs not getting your gun on target fast enough and getting shot while you are trying to get your perfect A-zone shot? Idk me personally I think it is a good balance between speed and accuracy.  You might like IDPA better as I think they make you wear a cover garment and have rules about reloading at slide lock and other things to make it more like a “real life scenario” I think.
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Offline George16

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2020, 02:03:35 PM »
Scores are based on your hit factor which is computed by dividing Hits over the time you spent shooting the stage. Mikes, no shoots and procedural penalties also weigh down your scores a lot.

Like nonamehavei said, you’ll have more fun in idpa based on your expectations. Speed and accuracy comes with practice. Its a lot better to be fast and not so accurate compared to being very accurate and very slow. If you can get a perfect balance of being fast and still accurate to some degree, your scores will be higher compared to very accurate and very slow.

Offline JBruns

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2020, 03:39:06 PM »
In USPSA the score is formulated by calculating your speed and accuracy. As far as the difference in points and how it relates to real world scenarios, do you think it would be more important in a shootout to get the shots off faster and be a little bit outside of center mass vs not getting your gun on target fast enough and getting shot while you are trying to get your perfect A-zone shot? Idk me personally I think it is a good balance between speed and accuracy.
I understand the quandry, and it's obvious which way USPSA has decided. All my life and through many classes I've taken over the years, it's always been stressed that I'm responsible for each round I fire. I think that in a real world situation, the "targets" would be moving, making a lot of those Charley's misses. It will take some mental effort on my part to overcome what I've been taught and what I've been practicing for so long.
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You might like IDPA better as I think they make you wear a cover garment and have rules about reloading at slide lock and other things to make it more like a “real life scenario” I think.
I think that's what I'll try next.

Offline 2morechains

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2020, 08:15:11 PM »
USPSA is not for everybody.  But it also depends on the stages.  There are “hoser” stages where everything is pretty close (<7 yds) and then there are other stages where there are plenty of no-shoots (penalty targets), hardcover (simulating a target hiding partially behind a wall or something solid, or just longer distance shots out beyond 25 yd.  It varies by the stage designer as well as the club. At the clubs I shoot at, we try to balance it out.  An all-hoser match is fun now and then, but most people don’t want to shoot that kind of stage for the entire match.  Similarly a match that is full of hard shots is not fun either on the lower class shooters, especially when you’re trying to do it fast. 

That said, at the end of the day the person who wins the stage or match is the person who shot the most points, least penalties, and in the shortest amount of time.  I usually average about 90-92% of the available points, dropping a few Charlies here and then, with the occasional Delta while going full-tilt boogie speed.  Even so, there are times I have to slow down and make sure I get good hits.  My goal is to shoot a clean match with zero Mikes (misses) zero penalties (hits on No-Shoots) or procedurals (doing something dumb).  Some stage designers love to clutter up the targets with liberal use of partial hardcover and No-Shoots targets which increases the accuracy component since Mikes and NS cost you penalty points which hurt your score. 

USPSA is not a tactical game anymore.  It may have started out that way in its roots, but anymore the game has shifted to where speed and accuracy are both emphasized, based on how your score is calculated using Hit Factor scoring.  I suppose there is some correlation to real-life in that you can be super accurate and make good hits on your adversary, but if it takes you a long time to do so you run the risk of a) being shot yourself, or b) your target runs away. 

The other thing you may have run into is Major PF vs Minor PF scoring.  For both, a hit in the A-zone and steel is worth 5 points.  But once you start getting into the C and D zone hits, minor costs you more points down.  C zone in minor is 3 pts, D zone in minor is 1 pt, vs 4 pts for C and 2 pts for D in Major PF.  So when shooting Production, Carry Optics, and PCC you have to make your hits count if you want to do well in the upper echelons. 

Shoot another match or three, at a different club if one is available to you before making up your mind.  I used to think PRS rifle matches were like watching paint dry, then I shot a few matches and realized that’s entirely not the case. 

Offline JBruns

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2020, 07:54:01 AM »
USPSA is not a tactical game anymore.  It may have started out that way in its roots, but anymore the game has shifted to where speed and accuracy are both emphasized, based on how your score is calculated using Hit Factor scoring.  I suppose there is some correlation to real-life in that you can be super accurate and make good hits on your adversary, but if it takes you a long time to do so you run the risk of a) being shot yourself, or b) your target runs away. 
Speed is for sure emphasized, but not so much accuracy. I understand it's a little bit slower to be really accurate. But who's to say which is better in a SD situation? I can't imagine BG's have done a lot of training at all, so taking an extra fraction of a second to be more accurate might be a winning factor. Again, I know the game is what it is. Just trying to wrap my head around it and decide if I want to make the compromise in accuracy to play it.

Offline George16

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2020, 09:22:19 AM »
You’ll be surprised to find out speed and accuracy is also emphasized in IDPA albeit not as much as USPSA. You really don’t have to compromise or give up on accuracy. Just practice to be fast and accurate as you can be.

There’s more to it than slinging bullets at the targets just to be fast.

Have fun on your next match and be safe.

Offline 2morechains

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2020, 10:16:41 AM »
USPSA is not a tactical game anymore.  It may have started out that way in its roots, but anymore the game has shifted to where speed and accuracy are both emphasized, based on how your score is calculated using Hit Factor scoring.  I suppose there is some correlation to real-life in that you can be super accurate and make good hits on your adversary, but if it takes you a long time to do so you run the risk of a) being shot yourself, or b) your target runs away. 
Speed is for sure emphasized, but not so much accuracy. I understand it's a little bit slower to be really accurate. But who's to say which is better in a SD situation? I can't imagine BG's have done a lot of training at all, so taking an extra fraction of a second to be more accurate might be a winning factor. Again, I know the game is what it is. Just trying to wrap my head around it and decide if I want to make the compromise in accuracy to play it.

So on the basis of one match you’ve made up your mind about an entire sport?  Right...

Offline JBruns

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2020, 10:32:06 AM »
So on the basis of one match you’ve made up your mind about an entire sport?  Right...
Only how I see the sport as a beginner. Just one man's perspective. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, sorry if I did.

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2020, 02:28:49 PM »
To be successful, you have to be fast AND accurate.

Offline alp3367

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2020, 03:02:34 PM »
  There has already been some excellent advice. I'd also add that it would be helpful for you decide what you want to get out of it if you haven't already. Are you looking to improve your gun handling skills? It's good for that.

 IDPA is somewhat less "sport" oriented than USPA, but a lot depends on the club you shoot with as they can very a lot for both USPSA and IDPA even in the same area. However, you can control a lot of what you want to do. While they'd never be competitive at high level matches I know a number of IDPA shooters that use the same IWB holster, gun, and gear they wear every day. They're not doing it to win IDPA matches, they're doing it to practice and have a good time. The same mindset applies to USPSA. You can go into it looking to practice and improve yourself, win matches, or both among other things.

 I can also say that almost every local club I know is always looking for volunteers to help with stage design and set up. Want to design a stage you want to shoot? I bet a local club is looking for volunteers to do just that and have experienced members to assist you with stage design.


Offline tdogg

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2020, 09:29:13 PM »
Make no mistake, USPSA AND IDPA are sports.  Don't confuse them with tactical training.  Every week there are gamers that try to get away with something at a match.  Sometimes they are hero's sometimes they aren't.  In the end it is a game.

That said, you will pick up gun handling skills.  You will become a better shot.  You will get faster.  All of these will help in the event you are caught in a stressful situation.

Go back to another match with the intent to have fun shooting a sport and see how it feels.

P.S.  When you see a good GM shoot you will get a different perspective on accuracy and speed.  It will make you rethink what is possible.

Cheers,
Toby
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Offline huskerlrrp

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2020, 09:35:33 PM »
I'm all for "blind" stages without walk through, but when I consider the fact that it's probably more safe for everyone involved to "game" the stage, I don't mind. I also think about the numerous dry runs (if possible) the military does for missions so it's not an unheard of practice.
Occasionally you can find an IDPA or Renegade match with a "no peak" stage and they are fun.

Also, check out "dry firing" exercises from people like Ben Stoeger. They can really improve your trigger pull, reloads and match results.

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2020, 10:36:03 PM »
I can remember my first defensive pistol class(Tom Givens). The guys that really stood apart were competitive shooters. As mentioned above, competition is a great way to develop and maintain gun handling skills. Then there's the added challenge of working out a good stage plan under pressure. All of this applies to self defense.

Offline newageroman

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Re: First competition shoot
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2020, 12:41:56 PM »
I go expecting to be last in scoring and first in grins. I tinker/mod my guns constantly and load all the ammo as well, so its usually a win if it just runs no matter how slow I am. These are all comp guns of course, not carry. If you want to be truly competitive in this sport it is a long road.

When I first started local matches I thought to myself "I can shoot almost as good as these guys, but I CAN surely out hustle 95% of them on movement." Hustle to the shooting station, then take time and shoot slow". That kind of worked, but now I am just going intentionally slower and shooting just a tad better. The fat dudes still beat me easily.

As far as USPSA vs. IDPA - My ideal training would be USPSA with this modification. You must take cover when doing mag changes. Or I would be plenty good with IDPA if they dropped the rule about shooting to slide lock. IDPA also has a rule about no air gunning, or practicing the stages beforehand.

You show up to the matches and pay the fee, just run the stages how you want and let the scores be darned. Maybe try one stage super fast, not as accurate, and then the next, super slow but extremely accurate.  Hell I run 3 gun with garand and bayo and call it my excuse to under perform.  More about fun for me personally.
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