New to the Forum; New to Reloading

[Dan W]

Good afternoon,

I am also new to reloading and found the beginning of this topic exasperating.  I don't think anyone is being righteous or condescending.  You have to learn to walk before you can run.  Stop, read, read again, read again till understood.  I spent several hours yesterday reading step by step how to determine my OAL for my CZ.  Made up 10 rounds as per the directions and have come up with a max OAL of 1.12 (which may be a little conservative) I did notice some of my OAL's came in seemingly long and then there were ones that came in around the same length.  I attribute this to how tight the projectile fit in the fired case.  I ran all 10 rounds 2 x's to check for consistency and they were consistent.  Am I 100% confident with my results...Eh?  I will set up another 10 rounds and do the same thing again.  Is this overkill.  It could be, but I also find it very interesting and could eliminate a disastrous outcome.  The OP isn't comfortable firing his own rounds.  I surely don't want to feel that way.  There are too many variables in play.  So I will continue to read and follow instructions and will ask for clarification as needed.

Thanks and keep up the great work.  I appreciate y'all trying to keep us safe.

Dan

[Wobbly]

Welcome Aboard !

Dan -
Didn't want to miss this opportunity to welcome you and see if there's anything we can do. The other thread was shutdown, so this way you get your very own thread. I like each reloader to have his/her own thread, that way when you ask a questions go on for 30 days, we won't need to dig through 5 previous posts to remember what type of gun, dies, and caliber you use. This may/may not not turn into a 6 month college course, but if it does... this way we're prepared and you'll know exactly where to look on each visit. So it's all yours, and you own it. You lead.

We have a really good crowd here that's very helpful, and eager to help. This is a place you can learn without being flamed. You can't ask a question that we didn't ask 30 years ago. The deal is, someone had to tell us... so we're really all brothers sailing in the same direction. It's just that some of the boats have sailed further... and are closer to the edge of the earth. 

To your questions...
• Each bullet is different, so a brand, type and weight would be helpful to know.
• You say you have a CZ, but a model would help.
• The VERY best instruction I can give a novice is to get a notebook. Loose leaf or bound. I like to dedicate a whole page to one bullet. At the top I place a title, then below that all the measurement data, and the OAL I decided upon. You may swap powders and primers, but you won't be changing OAL... so that's why one page works out. Then below that list all the powders and loads you've tried with the bullet. Maybe even some chrono results or impressions, like "too abrupt", "too much smoke", smelled bad" or "never got it to group well".



• Forego loading 20 of anything. 8-10 at each load will do while you're testing. Begin at the Starting Load and work up in small increments. And remember "Nothing good ever happens at Max Load", so skip that.



• If your lowest loads don't operate the slide correctly, then that's a GREAT thing. Simply keep working up in tiny increments. You'll find it. The load with the smallest group (that properly operates the slide) is what you want to load that powder at from then on.
• Beginning low and working up eliminates most of the dangers, so please take advantage of that.

Hope this helps.

[Dan W]

Thanks Wobbly,

I started shooting USPSA last year with a Sig P320X5 Legion first in production then carry optics.  It was ok but I sure like my CZ's better.

I will be working with RMR 124gr FMJ TCFP, BBI 125gr TC, Blue Bullets 125gr and 135gr TC.  Starting with Blue Bullets 125gr TC.
My powders are Sport Pistol and TiteGroup.  I'll start with Sport Pistol.
My CZ's are Shadow 2 OR's.
I'll be reloading on a XL650 with Dillon Carbide Sizer, Redding Seating Die, and Lee Crimp Die
I have a notebook and have begun with my push test results.  Here is a sample of my push results prior to the .015 deduct.
I have access to a chrono so this will be important as I need to achieve a minimum power factor.

CZ #1 1.124 x 1, 1.135 x 1, 1.137 x 1, 1.140 x 1 1.141 x 1, 1.142 x 1.  I think I will redo the push test on this one.  Not saying they are wrong just curious.
CZ #2 1.131 x 2, 1.134 x 2, 1.135 x 1, 1.136 x 1 and 1.145 x 1

Thanks for the idea of loading 8-10 and seeing how the run the slide, feel, etc...  I'll definitely be starting with lighter loads and then working up.  Like you said "Nothing good ever happens at Max Load"

Thanks again for your input. 

Dan

[bang bang]

welcome and congrats on getting into the reloading fray.

FWIW,  Everyone had their own background/life experience and such on how they see/do/learn things and there are may ways to do/learn. 

But i see it as important that you can see any difference in what you do too.  If you cant see/measure any difference then how do you know you are getting closer or further away.   Also some people change too many variables and make life difficult for themselves.  Then you have the cheap people or the ones that "have the $$ to do it wrong many times, but dont have the $$ to do it right" and there are those in between.

when i got into realoding i started by reading D.Grennels book, "The ABCs of Reloading". I think there are variations on it now but i read that several times and also my other reloading data manuals.  Then i started to do it but didnt go like a Bat out of you know where, but took my time and checked each step.  I only had a turret press (no indexing) so i could monitor and check each step.  I did a couple dry runs - dummy rounds and so forth until i get an understanding on the process for my press.   I didnt have a nice calipers like i do now, but bought some cheap RCBS plastic ones that i still have and then bought some dial calipers and still have those too.  But i was able to get by using the plastic ones for most of the time until i could afford better ones.   With my RCBS 1010 scale, it came with a 10 gm? weight and i used that as my check.  I was also able to take it to work and check it on a different and way more accurate scale too.

And what i also comes down to is knowing or understanding what info is being presented to you and being able to know if you understand that info.  And what data/measurements you are taking/reading. 

Such as LOA or things like that, you will notice there is usually a +/- (tolerance) and not a discrete number.  So, there is wiggle room for reloading. 

And last comment.  A college professor told us this.  QUESTION things.  If something doesnt feel right, then question it.  Even an answer in the back of the book maybe wrong and so can a reloading manual.  Its why i have several and cross check my loads.   Everyone will do what they feel will work for them.  It may not work for others, but thats ok. its their choice.   Hopefully they wont do any big mistakes but if they do, everyone that reloads should understand what they have in there hand is a potential GRENADE.  Do the wrong thing and guess what happens.

[Wobbly]

Dan -
I got a huge amount of background and info from your post. Thanks, that really helps.

3 problems with starting with Blue Bullets 124gr TC...
1. As outlined in the Max OAL article, any lead bullet will be larger than a plated or FMJ, and your Max readings may be thrown off. This is because the full diameter is larger than 0.355", which the freebore is cut to accept. So Max OAL is going to appear shorter than actual, even though the ogive is no where near the rifling. This is why I suggest reducing the diameter on lead bullets. The OD is scuffing the freebore, which is why your readings are all over the place.

2. This is a conical bullet, so the full bullet diameter is way out front of the case mouth. These do shoot better than RN and I don't blame you one bit... but still it means extra effort during the Find Max OAL phase..

3. Don't know about the Redding, but the Dillon Seating Die doesn't offer a seating anvil that works with the conical bullets. Something to keep in mind... I have a metal lathe and can make or modify anvils to exactly fit special bullets. That's a service I do for friends of the Forum, basically at cost.




Since you are competing, you may be more interested in accuracy at 125 Power Factor.
What we do in this situation is find THE most accurate load, then use reduced force springs to tune the gun to the low power ammo. This usually has us tuning at about 130 PF and dropping back to a 14# or 12# recoil spring. If you can find the softer Federal #100 primers, then you can also cut back on the hammer spring. But don't try that with CCI.

Spring sources...
 Cajun Gun Works
 Wolff Gun Spring
 CZ Custom


Hope this helps.

[Wobbly]

Competition means more testing.

Accuracy
When we test for ultimate accuracy it helps to fully support the bottom of the grip on a sand bag or other stable surface. You want to shoot at least 5, but not more than 10, rounds at a target. Because of the way the human eye works, you'll want to slow-fire on a 2" black circle on a white background. You'll also want to establish a fixed distance for all handgun testing. In this way you can compare today's targets to those 5 & 10 years in the future. 15yds seems to work out well. Not too close, not too far.

Everyone has "fliers", so shooting 8-10 rounds means you can throw out the worst 2 shots. I like to think (unless you are going for National Champ) we are chasing "average accuracy". Whatever you do, your results will probably be better than mine !! 


I use a NRA TQ-2 target with a 2.30" bull


Velocity
Because you are competing it's important to make sure your velocity is above 125PF, so this means chrono testing at some point. It's very hard to do chrono AND accuracy testing in the same sitting. Not impossible, but more detailed. Here again we are looking for "average velocity" with a low SD number. (SD numbers below 20 simply insure we had good loading practices.)  Your highest variations come from using "mixed brass", so another reason to hold down the round count is to get all the test subjects into one, single brand of brass. You may want to set aside 60-70 pieces from a single lot (which you only use for testing) to accomplish this.





Hope this helps.

[Dan W]

welcome and congrats on getting into the reloading fray.

FWIW,  Everyone had their own background/life experience and such on how they see/do/learn things and there are may ways to do/learn. 

But i see it as important that you can see any difference in what you do too.  If you cant see/measure any difference then how do you know you are getting closer or further away.   Also some people change too many variables and make life difficult for themselves.  Then you have the cheap people or the ones that "have the $$ to do it wrong many times, but dont have the $$ to do it right" and there are those in between.

when i got into realoding i started by reading D.Grennels book, "The ABCs of Reloading". I think there are variations on it now but i read that several times and also my other reloading data manuals.  Then i started to do it but didnt go like a Bat out of you know where, but took my time and checked each step.  I only had a turret press (no indexing) so i could monitor and check each step.  I did a couple dry runs - dummy rounds and so forth until i get an understanding on the process for my press.   I didnt have a nice calipers like i do now, but bought some cheap RCBS plastic ones that i still have and then bought some dial calipers and still have those too.  But i was able to get by using the plastic ones for most of the time until i could afford better ones.   With my RCBS 1010 scale, it came with a 10 gm? weight and i used that as my check.  I was also able to take it to work and check it on a different and way more accurate scale too.

And what i also comes down to is knowing or understanding what info is being presented to you and being able to know if you understand that info.  And what data/measurements you are taking/reading. 

Such as LOA or things like that, you will notice there is usually a +/- (tolerance) and not a discrete number.  So, there is wiggle room for reloading. 

And last comment.  A college professor told us this.  QUESTION things.  If something doesnt feel right, then question it.  Even an answer in the back of the book maybe wrong and so can a reloading manual.  Its why i have several and cross check my loads.   Everyone will do what they feel will work for them.  It may not work for others, but thats ok. its their choice.   Hopefully they wont do any big mistakes but if they do, everyone that reloads should understand what they have in there hand is a potential GRENADE.  Do the wrong thing and guess what happens.

Thanks Bang Bang. 

My ultimate goal is to be able to understand every part of the operation, what it means, what effects it has and why.  This is a process and one that I look forward too.  In the beginning it will be very important for me to document every recipe and results achieved or not achieved.  For the past month I have been decapping once fired brass and wet tumbling.  I have approximately 18k cases prepped.  This process gave me invaluable information on how the press operates, what and why things jamb, and how to correct it.  It also gave me time to perform maintenance and to view the Dillon videos.  I was lucky to find this set up from a very meticulous person that took very good care of it.  It sounds like the book will be quite helpful.  I have a Dillon electronic scale but would like to purchase a balance beam one as well.  I see you have an RCBS 1010 which I guess you like. 
Thanks again for your input.  I really appreciate it.

Dan

[IDescribe]

I have access to a chrono so this will be important as I need to achieve a minimum power factor.

Wobbly commented on this.  I will, as well.

As you read in forums like this (even moreso at the Brian Enos forum) about reloading as it relates to action pistol competition, you will read two common bits of wisdom regarding power factor, over and over, where one is gospel, and the other is myth:

Wisdom bit #1 -- Do not load down to the absolute minimum power factor.  You want a cushion because if you load to 125, you will eventually have a day when you get chronoed at a match, and due to your extreme spread, a particularly cold day, an unlucky day at the reloading press, or some combination of the three -- EVENTUALLY you will fail the chrono and shoot for no score.  This is good advice, and there should definitely be a cushion.  Cushions of 128/129/130 are often recommended.  To my memory, 130 is the most common recommendation.

Wisdom bit #2 -- At the same bullet weight, lower PF = weaker recoil, and weaker recoil = faster splits and higher scores, so you should load right down to what you consider the minimum PF: 128/129/130 to produce the best scores.  MYTH.  THIS is bad advice, but commonly given.  While there is no reason to go excessively high, and while there IS a point at which recoil is going to affect your splits -- the difference of a few points of PF is inconsequential, so going right to the floor offers no benefit relative to several points above the floor.  I have made recommendations to people that would have them at a PF of 133 and had them respond that no no no, 133 is TOO stout and that they prefer to be down around 130. 

Here is how irrelevant that difference is: with 124gr bullets, velocity Extreme Spreads of 20 to 30 are considered good, especially with the mixed brass everyone reloads with for action pistol, and up to 40 is not uncommon.  With a 124gr bullet and an Extreme Spread of 25 feet/sec, your slowest and fastest bullets have a PF difference of 3.  And the shooter can't tell the difference.  Extreme Spreads up to 40, still fine, and that has PF swings of 5 from their slowest to fastest bullets.  And again, they can't tell the difference in recoil.    PF differences of 3,4,5,6 are insignificant.  So do not get hung up on getting that PF as close to the floor as possible.

Where I am going with this, and Wobbly discussed this -- you should load for accuracy.  What is your most accurate load in a reasonably low PF range?  That should be the goal.  I recommend a floor of 130, but look for your most accurate load between 130 and maybe 136/137.  I ran some tests a few years ago, and in my CZ ShadowLine, various 124/125gr bullets with a variety of powders peaked in accuracy at an average PF of 133 to 134, depending on exact bullet and powder -- that is where my CZ likes bullets of that weight.  147gr bullets were best at an average PF of 136/137, again based on exact bullet and powder.  I have not had much luck with producing satisfactorily accurate 135gr loads in my CZ.  It just doesn't like that weight. 

But as Wobbly said -- load for accuracy.  Within PF range narrow enough that recoil difference remains insignificant, the more accurate load is more valuable to you as a shooter. 

[Dan W]

IDescribe,

I have no intention loading to the minimum PF.  This to me makes no sense.  Like you said I could get chronoed, etc...  I will be reloading for accuracy whether that be 130, 133 etc.  What works for one person may not work for the other.  I prefer to be open minded and take things into consideration if it makes sense.  I like to listen, evaluate and ask questions as needed.  I find that the more questions I ask the more I can learn and understand.  One of your comments was that you recommended a 133 PF to someone and they said no no no that is TOO stout.  To me that is closed minded unless he has experimented with it already.  My view is that you have nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain. 

Thanks for your help.

Dan

[Dan W]

Dan -
I got a huge amount of background and info from your post. Thanks, that really helps.

3 problems with starting with Blue Bullets 124gr TC...
1. As outlined in the Max OAL article, any lead bullet will be larger than a plated or FMJ, and your Max readings may be thrown off. This is because the full diameter is larger than 0.355", which the freebore is cut to accept. So Max OAL is going to appear shorter than actual, even though the ogive is no where near the rifling. This is why I suggest reducing the diameter on lead bullets. The OD is scuffing the freebore, which is why your readings are all over the place.

2. This is a conical bullet, so the full bullet diameter is way out front of the case mouth. These do shoot better than RN and I don't blame you one bit... but still it means extra effort during the Find Max OAL phase.

3. Don't know about the Redding, but the Dillon Seating Die doesn't offer a seating anvil that works with the conical bullets. Something to keep in mind... I have a metal lathe and can make or modify anvils to exactly fit special bullets. That's a service I do for friends of the Forum, basically at cost.


Since you are competing, you may be more interested in accuracy at 125 Power Factor.
What we do in this situation is find THE most accurate load, then use reduced force springs to tune the gun to the low power ammo. This usually has us tuning at about 130 PF and dropping back to a 14# or 12# recoil spring. If you can find the softer Federal #100 primers, then you can also cut back on the hammer spring. But don't try that with CCI.

Spring sources...
 Cajun Gun Works
 Wolff Gun Spring
 CZ Custom


Hope this helps.

Thanks Wobbly,

I also have some Acme 124gr RN-NLR that measure .356 that I can use for push fit.  BB's measure .3545 and .355 and the BBI's measure .355 and .3555.  Finding other bullets around here would be like finding a needle in a haystack.  I guess I could ask some of my shooting buddies.
Are you saying that I could find my COL using RN lead bullets and then loading my TC's to that OAL?  "But still it means extra effort during the Find Max OAL phase.

I don't completely understand this comment:  "This is a conical bullet, so the full bullet diameter is way out front of the case mouth."

Here is the link to the Redding Die.  https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/12-competition-bullet-seating-die-for-handgun-a-straight-wall-rifle-cartridges

I have mostly CCI premiers so messing with the hammer spring too much may not be in my best interest at this point.  I do have multiple hammer and recoil springs that I could work with.

Dan

[bang bang]

welcome and congrats on getting into the reloading fray.

FWIW,  Everyone had their own background/life experience and such on how they see/do/learn things and there are may ways to do/learn. 

But i see it as important that you can see any difference in what you do too.  If you cant see/measure any difference then how do you know you are getting closer or further away.   Also some people change too many variables and make life difficult for themselves.  Then you have the cheap people or the ones that "have the $$ to do it wrong many times, but dont have the $$ to do it right" and there are those in between.

when i got into realoding i started by reading D.Grennels book, "The ABCs of Reloading". I think there are variations on it now but i read that several times and also my other reloading data manuals.  Then i started to do it but didnt go like a Bat out of you know where, but took my time and checked each step.  I only had a turret press (no indexing) so i could monitor and check each step.  I did a couple dry runs - dummy rounds and so forth until i get an understanding on the process for my press.   I didnt have a nice calipers like i do now, but bought some cheap RCBS plastic ones that i still have and then bought some dial calipers and still have those too.  But i was able to get by using the plastic ones for most of the time until i could afford better ones.   With my RCBS 1010 scale, it came with a 10 gm? weight and i used that as my check.  I was also able to take it to work and check it on a different and way more accurate scale too.

And what i also comes down to is knowing or understanding what info is being presented to you and being able to know if you understand that info.  And what data/measurements you are taking/reading. 

Such as LOA or things like that, you will notice there is usually a +/- (tolerance) and not a discrete number.  So, there is wiggle room for reloading. 

And last comment.  A college professor told us this.  QUESTION things.  If something doesnt feel right, then question it.  Even an answer in the back of the book maybe wrong and so can a reloading manual.  Its why i have several and cross check my loads.   Everyone will do what they feel will work for them.  It may not work for others, but thats ok. its their choice.   Hopefully they wont do any big mistakes but if they do, everyone that reloads should understand what they have in there hand is a potential GRENADE.  Do the wrong thing and guess what happens.

Thanks Bang Bang. 

My ultimate goal is to be able to understand every part of the operation, what it means, what effects it has and why.  This is a process and one that I look forward too.  In the beginning it will be very important for me to document every recipe and results achieved or not achieved.  For the past month I have been decapping once fired brass and wet tumbling.  I have approximately 18k cases prepped.  This process gave me invaluable information on how the press operates, what and why things jamb, and how to correct it.  It also gave me time to perform maintenance and to view the Dillon videos.  I was lucky to find this set up from a very meticulous person that took very good care of it.  It sounds like the book will be quite helpful.  I have a Dillon electronic scale but would like to purchase a balance beam one as well.  I see you have an RCBS 1010 which I guess you like. 
Thanks again for your input.  I really appreciate it.

Dan

FWIW, Life IS A PROCESS.  its just that some people dont see/understand that. 

Dont forget, you may not get it right the first time, but thats ok.  You can ADAPT and CHANGE as you see fit.  Data can be elusive and a royal PIA, but unless you record the info, you wont know and you can always CHANGE later.  I say its always easier to DELETE/Remove data than it is to try to retrieve it once its gone.   Add or delete data, there is no set rule.  Its what allows YOU as a reloaded to REPLICATE that load in any future date - within reason. 

regarding the RCBS 1010.  Its analog.  NO POWER/BATTERIES to deal with.  It works without wi-fi/data too.  On somethings i like KISS principle.  As you may have noticed on some battery powered equipment, if you leave them alone/neglected for a while, you may find the batters have ruptured/leaked and did some damage to the tool.  Its just one less issue to deal with for me.  I get the digital since all you need to do is read a number and thats fine too.  But for the most part all of my reloading is all analog. I do not need power to reload, other than good lighting.

I do have powered case trimmer too, but worse case, remove it from the motor and use the hand crank.

Over time you will figure things out and may change the process to fit your needs at that time too.  In the end its up to you and its your choice.

good luck

[Wobbly]

My ultimate goal is to be able to understand every part of the operation, what it means, what effects it has and why. 

"Operation" meaning... of the 650, reloading, or developing a load Not clear.

In the beginning it will be very important for me to document every recipe and results achieved or not achieved. 

No, I'm fairly certain you'll be making notes about loads and results for the rest of your reloading career ! 

I have approximately 18k cases prepped. 

That should get you through the first couple of days. 

Did you cull out the steel and "stepped" cases ??

It also gave me time to perform maintenance and to view the Dillon videos.  I was lucky to find this set up from a very meticulous person that took very good care of it.  It sounds like the book will be quite helpful. 

I also have a 650, so if you need suggestions on accessories, operation, lubrication, whatever... don't hesitate. We currently have a 30% off sale on information. So hurry while supplies last. 

Don't buy the "ABC's" book. Borrow it or check your local library. There's no load info, so once you understand the process you'll never consult it again. Lots of used copies out there because of this.

I have a Dillon electronic scale but would like to purchase a balance beam one as well.  I see you have an RCBS 1010 which I guess you like. 

Ohaus makes the best balance beam scales. They sell them under their own name, and make them for people like RCBS and Dillon. Their "505" is pretty much the industry standard and has been made since ~1970. Look for Ohaus or RCBS 505, or the Dillon Eliminator, which Dillon just dropped within the last 6 months. Good deals on used ones if everything is included. Ohaus also makes the 1010 and several other scales for RCBS. Any of them are excellent. What you want is a beam with both poise in units of 10. Cheaper scales like the Redding and some Lymans are in units of 5. Do not buy a Lee because you're way past that quality range.


This is a Dillon Eliminator, showing poise units of 10


This is a Lyman 500, showing a poise unit of 5

I also have some Acme 124gr RN-NLR that measure .356 that I can use for push fit.  BB's measure .3545 and .355 and the BBI's measure .355 and .3555.  Finding other bullets around here would be like finding a needle in a haystack.  I guess I could ask some of my shooting buddies. Are you saying that I could find my COL using RN lead bullets and then loading my TC's to that OAL?  "But still it means extra effort during the Find Max OAL phase.

Statement not clear. You cannot use the Acme bullets to find the Max OAL of Blue Bullets or any other bullets. All bullets are different, each will result in it's own Max OAL in the same barrel.

I don't completely understand this comment:  "This is a conical bullet, so the full bullet diameter is way out front of the case mouth."

The conical bullet has a shoulder, the RN does not. If you look at a finished cartridge, the full 0.355" diameter of the conical comes out in front of the case mouth. The gentle curve of the RN means the bullet diameter gracefully decreases out in front of the case mouth. This means they strike the chamber (find the Max OAL obstruction) in entirely different places. This is one reason to find the Max OAL you must be using the exact same lot of bullets you hope to take a reading from.


I am absolutely hurt you didn't study this image the first time. I'm off to my safe space to cry now.

Here is the link to the Redding Die.  https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/12-competition-bullet-seating-die-for-handgun-a-straight-wall-rifle-cartridges

Won't do me any good because that page won't show me how the Redding seating stem or anvil interfaces with your bullet.

I have mostly CCI premiers so messing with the hammer spring too much may not be in my best interest at this point.  I do have multiple hammer and recoil springs that I could work with.

That's good.


Hope this helps.
PS. How's that fire hose taste ?   

[Dan W]

My ultimate goal is to be able to understand every part of the operation, what it means, what effects it has and why. 

"Operation" meaning... of the 650, reloading, or developing a load Not clear.

The operation of the 650.

In the beginning it will be very important for me to document every recipe and results achieved or not achieved. 

No, I'm fairly certain you'll be making notes about loads and results for the rest of your reloading career ! 

Yes, I would agree.

I have approximately 18k cases prepped. 

That should get you through the first couple of days. 

 

Did you cull out the steel and "stepped" cases ??

I have not run across any steel or stepped cases yet.  I will inspect them prior to going into the case feeder.

It also gave me time to perform maintenance and to view the Dillon videos.  I was lucky to find this set up from a very meticulous person that took very good care of it.  It sounds like the book will be quite helpful. 

I also have a 650, so if you need suggestions on accessories, operation, lubrication, whatever... don't hesitate. We currently have a 30% off sale on information. So hurry while supplies last. 

Ok.  Thanks for the info

Don't buy the "ABC's" book. Borrow it or check your local library. There's no load info, so once you understand the process you'll never consult it again. Lots of used copies out there because of this.

I'll check my local library.  Good suggestion.

I have a Dillon electronic scale but would like to purchase a balance beam one as well.  I see you have an RCBS 1010 which I guess you like. 

Ohaus makes the best balance beam scales. They sell them under their own name, and make them for people like RCBS and Dillon. Their "505" is pretty much the industry standard and has been made since ~1970. Look for Ohaus or RCBS 505, or the Dillon Eliminator, which Dillon just dropped within the last 6 months. Good deals on used ones if everything is included. Ohaus also makes the 1010 and several other scales for RCBS. Any of them are excellent. What you want is a beam with the minor poise in units of 10. Cheaper scales like the Redding and some Lymans are in units of 5. Do not buy a Lee because you're way past that quality range.

Thanks for the info

I also have some Acme 124gr RN-NLR that measure .356 that I can use for push fit.  BB's measure .3545 and .355 and the BBI's measure .355 and .3555.  Finding other bullets around here would be like finding a needle in a haystack.  I guess I could ask some of my shooting buddies. Are you saying that I could find my COL using RN lead bullets and then loading my TC's to that OAL?  "But still it means extra effort during the Find Max OAL phase.

Statement not clear. You cannot use the Acme bullets to find the Max OAL of Blue Bullets or any other bullets. All bullets are different, each will result in it's own Max OAL in the same barrel.

That's what I thought and got out of your statement.

Define extra effort during the Find Max OAL phase.  Do I need to perform additional Push Fits?  I see that some of the bullets fit more firmly in the case than others.  

I don't completely understand this comment:  "This is a conical bullet, so the full bullet diameter is way out front of the case mouth."

The conical bullet has a shoulder, the RN does not. If you look at a finished cartridge, the full 0.355" diameter of the conical comes out in front of the case mouth. The gentle curve of the RN means the bullet diameter gracefully decreases out in front of the case mouth. This means they strike the chamber (find the Max OAL obstruction) in entirely different places. This is one reason to find the Max OAL you must be using the exact same lot of bullets you hope to take a reading from.

That's what I thought you meant.  So I need to check OAL for each lot of bullets then. Could that effect the recipe?

Here is the link to the Redding Die.  https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/12-competition-bullet-seating-die-for-handgun-a-straight-wall-rifle-cartridges

Won't do me any good because that page won't show me how the Redding seating stem or anvil interfaces with that bullet.

Makes sense.

I have mostly CCI premiers so messing with the hammer spring too much may not be in my best interest at this point.  I do have multiple hammer and recoil springs that I could work with.

That's good.


Hope this helps.
PS. How's that fire hose taste ?   

I find it very filling!!

[Dan W]

Wobbly,


I am absolutely hurt you didn't study this image the first time. I'm off to my safe space to cry now.

I actually printed this yesterday. 

No excuses. The flood of information has my brain on fire and the firehose has flooded it.   

[IDescribe]

I have no intention loading to the minimum PF. 

Excellent.

One of your comments was that you recommended a 133 PF to someone and they said no no no that is TOO stout.  To me that is closed minded unless he has experimented with it already. 

To clarify -- I wasn't referencing giving a direct PF recommendation of 133.  That was more about having recommended things, on different occasions, could be for a number of reasons, that take someone into that range, which is still very modest, or 132 or 135, or whatever, still modest, and received responses that in one way or another say that the recoil is too stout.  It has happened many times. 

I just wanted to get the new reloader with the drive to read and learn and offer the idea that lowest PF that was reasonable is NOT the holy grail before he read 100 times that it was.