Author Topic: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?  (Read 2180 times)

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Offline ScottH

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CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« on: March 31, 2021, 05:34:17 PM »
Anyone know when CZ produced their first 1911 after acquiring Dan Wesson? I think they bought Dan Wesson in 2005? I can find all kinds of info on CZ's first 1911 as an American company(CZ-USA), But not much on the early CZ/DW 1911's....I was curious as to which plant or state they were in, Serial ranges on the early ones, If CZ was incorporated in the serial...
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 07:40:54 AM by ScottH »
U.S.M.C. Semper Fi my brothers.

Offline alp3367

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2021, 10:57:08 AM »
 The purchase was in early 2005. Anything after that would have been under CZ-USA ownership. They've always (pre and post CZ-USA purchase) been produced in Norwich NY. "CZ" is not in the serial, they all start DW. If you had a question about any particular serial you could call CZ-USA and they could tell you if it was produced under their ownership as that's the only records they (or DW) will have. Anything prior to the CZ-USA purchase serial record wise is now with the ATF and neither DW nor CZ-USA have those records anymore.

Offline rdcinhou

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2021, 06:56:47 PM »
My CZ 1911A1 was made in 2015 and its serial number is in the 700's.

I've never found an accurate count of how many were made, others have said 1000-1400 of them.

If you can find someone with the lower serial numbers, and find out their date, that would be helpful.

I had to search high and low for mine.
CZ24,27,38,40P,45,52,Vzor 50,70,75BΩ,75D PCR,P01,P07, Phantom,SP01 Tactical,Shadow 2 (Blue,Urban Gray),P09, P10S,P10C,P10F,82,83,85 PreB,97BE,97BD,100,1911A1, 2075BD RAMI,452 American,550 Urban Counter Sniper,805 Bren S1,Drake G2,Duo,Z,vz24 8mm Mauser,FK 7.5 BRNO Field Pistol & PSD

Offline AZ_CZ

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2021, 07:02:53 PM »
The 1911Forum has a Dan Wesson category and also has a thread just on DW, CZ-DW 1911 markings and years of production.  A lot of good info, but also a lot of gaps and questions.

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/common-dan-wesson-model-designations-serial-numbers.130599/
CZ Fanbot since 1996

Offline ScottH

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2021, 11:50:14 PM »
This is why I ask...This is a CZ copy(not a production gun) of one of the last guns Bob Serva designed for Dan Wesson in 2004. Or so I've been led to believe.



Now, I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I get these absolute answers based on skewed available knowledge. Again, not trying to piss off the people that know, but this one has CZ in the serial, and is clearly a 1911. This is one of mine that I'm trying to find some facts on. I am absolute in the belief that it is one of very few, if not the only one made in the 2005-2006 time frame, by CZ, that didn't make it into production, and without a doubt a copy of the Dan Wesson Patriot Global Hunter introduced at the very end of Bob Serva's tour of duty at Dan Wesson. I'm looking for more complete, better info if available. I'm throwing this out there to peak interest, to see if anyone can find info I cant....
This is a 6 inch, 10mm gun, complete, and functioning, that I acquired from a former Dan Wesson employee many years ago.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 12:18:47 AM by ScottH »
U.S.M.C. Semper Fi my brothers.

Offline AZ_CZ

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2021, 12:56:30 AM »
Not sure what pot you’re stirring. Looking on the internet for facts is like... well that’s a crap shoot. Good luck on your quest. It’s a great piece, enjoy it.
CZ Fanbot since 1996

Offline rdcinhou

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2021, 03:59:35 AM »

This is a 6 inch, 10mm gun, complete, and functioning, that I acquired from a former Dan Wesson employee many years ago.

So this is the one of the ancestors of my Dan Wesson Bruin, 10mm with a 6" barrel (2016) ?

Many thanks for sharing!
CZ24,27,38,40P,45,52,Vzor 50,70,75BΩ,75D PCR,P01,P07, Phantom,SP01 Tactical,Shadow 2 (Blue,Urban Gray),P09, P10S,P10C,P10F,82,83,85 PreB,97BE,97BD,100,1911A1, 2075BD RAMI,452 American,550 Urban Counter Sniper,805 Bren S1,Drake G2,Duo,Z,vz24 8mm Mauser,FK 7.5 BRNO Field Pistol & PSD

Offline ScottH

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2021, 10:39:59 AM »
Not sure what pot you’re stirring. Looking on the internet for facts is like... well that’s a crap shoot. Good luck on your quest. It’s a great piece, enjoy it.

Sadly true, but there are some people here WAY smarter than me that may have some good info. I may get the answers I seek, may not....
U.S.M.C. Semper Fi my brothers.

Offline rdcinhou

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2021, 08:06:36 AM »
Since I am a member of the Dan Wesson Forum (besides my Bruin 10mm, I also have a DW 15-2/V2,6 in 357 mag), they have a voluntary SERIAL NUMBER REGISTRY and make the information available in PDF form:  https://www.danwessonforum.com/wp-content/files/DanWessonSerialNumbers.pdf

In the last published version published by the site (2012), there are SIX (6) 1911s with S/N's ending in CZ (after acquisition).

These have dates listed:

Model CBOB, 45 ACP, stainless
C57702CZ, 2006, original purchaser
C8065XCZ, 2008, original purchaser
C200CZ, 2010, original purchaser

Model VBOB, 45 ACP, coated
VB330CZ, 2010, original purchaser
VB22XCZ, 2010, fired cartridge case date

Model RZ-10, 10mm, stainless
RZ7144CZ, 2007, verified by Dan Wesson

It's not a lot of data, but it's a start!
CZ24,27,38,40P,45,52,Vzor 50,70,75BΩ,75D PCR,P01,P07, Phantom,SP01 Tactical,Shadow 2 (Blue,Urban Gray),P09, P10S,P10C,P10F,82,83,85 PreB,97BE,97BD,100,1911A1, 2075BD RAMI,452 American,550 Urban Counter Sniper,805 Bren S1,Drake G2,Duo,Z,vz24 8mm Mauser,FK 7.5 BRNO Field Pistol & PSD

Offline ScottH

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2021, 11:31:15 AM »
I'm pretty sure this pistol was assembled by a CZ/DW employee with parts available to him, and was never intended for the public. BUT, the parts were there, so I assume at one point CZ was at least thinking about going forward with production. Again, it's a pretty close copy of the Dan Wesson Patriot Global Hunter that Bob Serva was STARTING production on when CZ bought Dan Wesson...

CZ



Dan Wesson
U.S.M.C. Semper Fi my brothers.

Offline alp3367

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2021, 01:17:00 PM »
 I suspect that's either a pre-production BRUIN or a custom order. The serial info mostly dates to 2016-2017. When did you acquire it?

Edit - Looked a bit more. It was sold as a 01880b "DAN WESSON BRUIN CAL. 10MM" in 2017. That serial format is an earlier one though. So what I suspect is that the frame was an old one that had been sitting around for quite awhile. And at some point somebody decided to throw some parts together and turn it into a complete firearm. Whether the employee did that as a request or just saw the final product and wanted it I don't know. Looks like only two of that model number were ever sold. But they may very well have been different configurations. There are all sorts of oddball DW guns out there as they would custom make a customer just about anything on request. Yours is not a regular production or catalog item.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 02:36:33 PM by alp3367 »

Offline ScottH

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2021, 12:12:00 PM »
Curious...Alp3367, which gun are you talking about? In the last pic are the CZ in question on top, and the Dan Wesson Patriot Global Hunter on the bottom...
U.S.M.C. Semper Fi my brothers.

Offline alp3367

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2021, 10:59:37 AM »
Curious...Alp3367, which gun are you talking about? In the last pic are the CZ in question on top, and the Dan Wesson Patriot Global Hunter on the bottom...

 I was referring to the 00103 one.

Offline ScottH

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 09:25:06 AM »
You made the comment "looks like only two of that model number were ever sold"...Is there any documentation available to support this? And how did you determine "model number"? I ask with sincere interest. I have been under the impression that CZ was going to continue the Global Hunter, and made a frame or two, then decided not to proceed. I think, like I said before, an employee found the frame somewhere in the "CZ's gone bye bye box" and bought it then built it...I have however heard rumor of a GH copy being at the CZ booth at the 2006 shot show, yet have never found any evidence to support that rumor. Few people even knew about Serva's Global Hunter, so it would make sense that CZ's copy didn't receive enough interest to go forward with...
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 12:29:44 AM by ScottH »
U.S.M.C. Semper Fi my brothers.

Offline alp3367

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Re: CZ's first Dan Wesson 1911?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2021, 10:09:01 AM »
You made the comment "looks like only two of that model number were ever sold"...Is there any documentation available to support this? And how did you determine "model number"? I ask with sincere interest. I have been under the impression that CZ was going to continue the Global Hunter, and made a frame or two, then decided not to proceed. I think, like I said before, an employee found the frame somewhere in the "CZ's gone bye bye box" and bought it then built it...I have however heard rumor of a GH being at the CZ booth at the 2006 shot show, yet have never found any evidence to support that rumor. Few people even knew about Serva's Global Hunter, so it would make sense that CZ's copy didn't receive enough interest to go forward with...

 It's the sort of thing you can usually email CZ-USA customer service, they'll generally be able to look up that sort of info. A serial is always tied to an item/model number/sku. I'm not very familiar with the pre CZ global hunter but it basically looks like a railed long slide 10mm, which the current Bruin is other than the rail.

 

anything