Author Topic: Dyeing a Birch stock  (Read 1863 times)

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Offline crosstimbers

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Dyeing a Birch stock
« on: June 07, 2021, 04:11:54 PM »
The Gunsmithing forum didn't seem to be the appropriate place for this, so I'm hoping this is okay to post here. If not I apologize.

I am about to dye a birch rifle stock. There is a lot of information available on line and I have read a bunch of it. However I do have one specific question that I haven't found an answer to- or put another way I have seen answers all over the place and cant tell which one is right.

After dyeing the stock, is it better to use a finish like tru-oil, or a spray or wipe on poly coat of some kind? Ive read quite a bit about hand rubbed finishes (I apply tru oil with my index finger) and dye coming off with the rubbing.

So if anyone here has any insight I'd appreciate it.  ;D
It's not saving any water if you have to flush it over and over....

Offline Tanners Owner

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2021, 07:46:18 PM »
I’ve successfully refinished the stocks of my Russian o/u & SxS several years ago.

I used tung  oil for my after stain finish. Several coats and it was done.  Much easier than I thought.
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Offline mrcabinet

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2021, 09:06:30 PM »
Just to clarify, are you dyeing, like with an aniline dye, or staining?
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Offline crosstimbers

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2021, 06:03:30 AM »
Just to clarify, are you dyeing, like with an aniline dye, or staining?

Dyeing with aniline. Stain doesn't work well on Birch. What I need to know is which top coat to use.

I've done a couple of Birch stocks, both shotgun stocks. They turned out okay, or at least they were okay in the sense that they looked better than they did before I re-finished them. But they didn't look like I wanted them to, they ended up looking a bit uneven.
It's not saving any water if you have to flush it over and over....

Offline mrcabinet

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2021, 06:45:37 AM »
Truoil should not affect the alcohol based dye, unless you're very aggressively rubbing it in. Just spread it with your fingers. No need to massage it - the first coat will soak in on it's own. The following coats will build on top of it.

If staining woods like birch, pine and maple, applying a pre-toner of cut boiled linseed oil will even it out and help prevent splotchiness. Gel stains work well on these woods as well, since you can control it more.
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Offline crosstimbers

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2021, 10:12:44 AM »
Truoil should not affect the alcohol based dye, unless you're very aggressively rubbing it in. Just spread it with your fingers. No need to massage it - the first coat will soak in on it's own. The following coats will build on top of it.

If staining woods like birch, pine and maple, applying a pre-toner of cut boiled linseed oil will even it out and help prevent splotchiness. Gel stains work well on these woods as well, since you can control it more.


Thanks!

Uh, while I ve got you on the line  ::) Couple more questions. First, the dye I have right now is Fiebings RED dye. I had read a post on some other forum where some guy said it turned out well. But, since then most of the information I have seen indicates that their brown dye turns birch "too red" for some people's tastes. I prefer a red tint, but worry that red dye might end up looking like neon red or some such result. I know I can test it on an inconspicuous place first, but wondered if the red dye would be a mistake?

Secondly I understand youre suggesting BLO then the dye, but I read an account of mixing the dye with the BLO by a guy who was refinishing birch 10 22 stocks. There was some imput that this resulted in what was known as a "mud" finish or some such. But the guy was trying for some pretty wild colors so maybe thats what he wanted. Any of that ring a bell?
It's not saving any water if you have to flush it over and over....

Offline mrcabinet

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2021, 11:15:20 AM »
First off, based on my experience, that red dye will be....... RED! I would start with a brown dye and then, if it's not red enough, go over it with a diluted red dye. You can adjust the intensity of the dye by the amount of alcohol you dilute it with. Red birch can run from reddish brown, to brown, to cream colored, so it all depends on the wood.

With a dye stain you should not need a BLO toner, and I would not mix anything but alcohol in the dye. Haven't tried it, but I don't see mixing an oil into an alcohol base ending well.

On another note, I'm not really a fan of Truoil, simply because it isn't a "true" oil finish. It's made up of 56% paint thinner, 33% oil base varnish and 11% oil, so it's really more like a wiping varnish. If you want a true oiled finish use multiple coats of BLO or real Tung oil (yes, there's fake Tung oil), letting it dry for two or three days between coats, and finishing with 000 steel wool and wax. Use good wax, like Treewax or Minwax, not Johnson's floor wax. It has too much oil in it.

You should seriously consider using wiping varnish. It's easy to use and easy to make. Get some real, oil based varnish (like Spar varnish) and dilute it 50/50 with paint thinner. Wipe it on with a clean soft cloth and let it dry. Hit it with steel wool and coat it again. Then again and again, until you get the build you like. I will usually run some 600 grit lightly over it after four coats, just to knock down any debris and even the surface.

Hope this helps!
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Offline crosstimbers

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2021, 12:53:16 PM »
First off, based on my experience, that red dye will be....... RED! I would start with a brown dye and then, if it's not red enough, go over it with a diluted red dye. You can adjust the intensity of the dye by the amount of alcohol you dilute it with. Red birch can run from reddish brown, to brown, to cream colored, so it all depends on the wood.

With a dye stain you should not need a BLO toner, and I would not mix anything but alcohol in the dye. Haven't tried it, but I don't see mixing an oil into an alcohol base ending well.

On another note, I'm not really a fan of Truoil, simply because it isn't a "true" oil finish. It's made up of 56% paint thinner, 33% oil base varnish and 11% oil, so it's really more like a wiping varnish. If you want a true oiled finish use multiple coats of BLO or real Tung oil (yes, there's fake Tung oil), letting it dry for two or three days between coats, and finishing with 000 steel wool and wax. Use good wax, like Treewax or Minwax, not Johnson's floor wax. It has too much oil in it.

You should seriously consider using wiping varnish. It's easy to use and easy to make. Get some real, oil based varnish (like Spar varnish) and dilute it 50/50 with paint thinner. Wipe it on with a clean soft cloth and let it dry. Hit it with steel wool and coat it again. Then again and again, until you get the build you like. I will usually run some 600 grit lightly over it after four coats, just to knock down any debris and even the surface.

Hope this helps!

I appreciate the help, thanks!
It's not saving any water if you have to flush it over and over....

Offline mrcabinet

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2021, 05:30:33 PM »
Let us know how it turns out!
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Offline crosstimbers

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Re: Dyeing a Birch stock
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2021, 05:43:48 PM »
Let us know how it turns out!

I can tell you this much...I tested that Fiebings red in the barrel channel, and wow!

You were right, it was RED. Needless to say not going that way.
It's not saving any water if you have to flush it over and over....