Tactical Sports (and others?) Trigger Problem Repair

[LDBennett141]

I just went through a gunsmithing exercise on one of the all metal 9mm’s and it was NOT fun. This is a warning on doing such trigger changes on the single action versions with the single sided trigger bar and the safety lever on both sides (I am not totally aware of which models that is but mine was a Tactical Sports).

The gun, bought new, always suffered an unreliable trigger reset regardless of the trigger adjustment screw settings. I decided that the trigger return spring was just not strong enough. My plan was to remove the spring and to permanently distort the spring legs to increase the preload on the trigger. But to do so required removal of the safety (both sides), the trigger/trigger bar itself, and the sear cage. Disassembly was trying.

The trigger pin is flared on both ends (had to remove the flare on one end to reinstall it) and required  a little more force than I liked to do. To get the trigger/trigger bar out, the sear cage had to come out which was retained by the safety. To get the safety out I had to heavily depress the sear cage and pull really hard on the left side safety lever. Then the right hand safety lever fell off with its tiny retaining plate. The trigger/trigger bar could then be fished out of the frame. The trigger bar was easily removed from the trigger. I chose to replace the plastic trigger with a new CZ metal one for this model.

 So I deformed the trigger return spring to increase its preload and tried to reassemble the trigger bar to the trigger but the hole for the pin was undersized. The pin had a 0.006 inch interference fit which was impossible on a 0.033 inch pin. I had to enlarge the hole to get to a 0.0005 inch interference fit. The trigger/trigger bar was fished back into the frame. Next came the right side safety lever which was held in place by a tiny plate (think a large grain of rice sized).

I had to use grease on the retaining plate and masking tape to hold that right side lever in place. The sear cage dropped in but driving the left slide safety lever back onto the gun require lots of wiggling and depressing the tiny safety click stop while heavily depressing the sear cage. The final safety seating was with a hammer and punch....not ideal but it worked. When adjusting the overtravel screw I found the provided one from the new trigger was too short so I stole the longer one out of the original trigger.

All of this was difficult and totally different than the CZ75  triggers I have changed in the past. This Tactical Sports trigger is a bit different with tiny pieces and springs. But it is a minimal creep 2 pound trigger with a reasonable reset (now!) and I love the gun….BUT I don’t recommend doing the trigger work yourself on this version and others that use the same design. The video I viewed on YouTube totally underestimated the tasks required to change out the original plastic trigger!

LDBennett

[George16]

I have two czechmates and a TSO and didn’t encounter any of those obstacles especially the safety and trigger pin. I replaced the stock trigger pin with the floating trigger pin from CGW. I have taken them apart multiple times including replacing the sear spring.

 As for the safety detent and little spring, I just put a dab of grease to keep them in place. I also used a small jeweler’s screw driver to push the safety detent/spring rearward to set the safety lever in place.

It would have helped you a lot if you asked questions first before doing such a job. There are also YouTube videos detailing these. I hope you put a dab of grease on the two little sear springs behind the sear cage to prevent them from coming out. Nonetheless, I’m glad you got everything sorted out and put back together.

Have you test fired it yet?

[M1A4ME]

Only had mine apart once.  Just for fun, when I got it.  Gave it a thorough cleaning.  Found two small springs in it and wondered if they'd come from a previous spring break.  So I tossed them in the trash.  Found out they were the two small springs that fit under the back of the sear cage to force it upwards.  Replaced them a couple days later.

Did not have the issues with the parts like you did.  Sometimes, things just don't go right.

Or as dad used to say about working on  airplanes - "You gotta hold your mouth just right sometimes, to get those small pieces to go back in right."

[tdogg]

Yeah thre cgw floating trigger pin is worth it on any cz.  As others have mentioned,  hopefully you didn't lose the sear cage springs in the rear of the cage.

I've replaced the trigger springs once on my TSO's.  Pretty straight forward assuming you don't lose the sear cage springs.  I'd have opted to replace the trigger return spring rather than bending it for more preload.  The reset on my TSO's is very positive and solid.

Now that you've done it,  the second time will be much easier.

Cheers,
Toby

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[LDBennett141]

I have done home gunsmithing on my many guns over the last 35 years. This one was a challenge for me. While I did it and didn't loose any parts, it still was not as easy as the YouTube video (with many interrupts that make me think the problems were not recorded) would make a viewer believe.

If work has to be done then just do it and struggle through the problems as I did. But based on my many years of home gunsmithing experience, any trigger work should be evaluated as to your own capabilities. I studied the parts diagram, watched the YouTube video multiple times, and have done trigger work on other models of the CZ75 over the years. This gun is difficult to work on because of the interaction between all the various small parts. I am not a newbie to trigger work, just to this particular CZ version.

The trigger I purchased was a CZ part specified by CZ for this model. Yet, the trigger/trigger bar pin hole in the new trigger was seriously undersized (0.006 inch interference fit on a 0.033 inch diameter pin??).

The problem I was trying to solve was an un-reliable trigger reset (this way from new and did not get better with use and has caused errant unsafe firings). I would have gladly bought a stiffer spring if I could have found one. But I searched and could not find one. This trigger assembly is different from other CZ's I have worked on.

I thoroughly tested the trigger on the bench and there is no reason to believe shooting it will reveal any problems with the changes. The trigger pull is right at 2 pounds and the reset is now reliable which it was not before this change (the modified spring did the trick). I changed the trigger itself only because I was in there and a plastic trigger in an all metal gun just seems wrong (I hate plastic guns and plastic gun parts!).

This post was meant for owners who might think that this trigger is as easy to work on as a 1911 or any others you might think of. It is not. In reality the safety system (two sided operation version) makes this a much harder task then it might be assumed. It also doesn't help that CZ provides a metal trigger that is not a drop-in part. It requires re-drilling of the trigger bar pin hole. Fortunately there is a numbered drill that gives the required interference fit.

Anyway, I hope this helps the un-informed about this exact CZ trigger.

LDBennett

NOTE: My experiences with this work might have been exasperated by my failing eye sight. I struggled to see inside the frame even with copious amounts of lighting. The last few years have seen my eyesight degrade without a possibility of fixing the problem. That's the cost of becoming a very senior citizen, I guess.

[George16]

What CZ trigger did you specifically put in? I replaced the polymer trigger on mine with a metal CZ trigger and went in without any problem.

There is a little ledge on the side of trigger that the spring hooks into to provide positive reset. If this tip or other end of the spring is not seated properly on this ledge, the reset will be problematic at best or won’t reset at all at.

[LDBennett141]

The trigger was from CZ Custom (Is that a part of CZ itself??). It was SKU 10012. CZ75/TS SAO Trigger Black AL. I never did find a "heavy duty" new trigger/trigger bar spring anywhere I looked on the internet (??), at least for this Tactical Sports model which is different from the other CZ's.

In its original configuration the spring was hooked correctly. About one time out of 10 the trigger would not completely reset. On the bench I could easily induce the failure about half the time. The noise and feel of the reset was nearly always imperceptible with ear protection on. The next trigger pull would not let the hammer fall and as I would attempt to release and reapply the trigger it may or may not release the hammer....all very unsafe!. An inspection of the trigger/trigger bar with the slide off showed me that the reset and return of the trigger was not strong at all. The trigger pull was under 2 pounds. I suspected the spring was a bit weak even though its shape was correct. The spring legs were parallel in stock form, as the parts diagram and a new spring (bought at the same time as the trigger) showed. I over flex the spring to get about a 20 degree difference in the legs angles. That seems to have worked for an audible reliable reset function. The trigger pull increased to just above 2 pounds by a few ounces. All seems well now.

While I was really interested in fixing the trigger reset function, I thought it wise to change the trigger from the plastic one that came with the gun as all the same parts had to be removed from the frame for both changes. My problem was disassembly and reassembly of the safety and that was my complaint. Also the tiny right side safety retaining plate was very fiddly and I resorted to grease to hold it in place along with masking tape to hold the right sides safety lever to the gun frame, (I had figured this out before it was mentioned in the comments).

I have done extensive trigger work on many of my guns over the years and only the Beretta 87T was more fiddly to work on.

LDBennett

[George16]

Yes it’s okay to use the trigger. Keep in mind that the TS, TSO and Czechmate use the same trigger system, internals etc.

As for the failure to reset, have you remove the overtravel or pretravel screw to rule that it out? Many a times an intermittent failure to reset is caused by a misadjusted overtravel or pretravel screw.

For comprarison, my TSO and czechmates’ trigger pulls are about 1# 3.2-3.5 oz (everything was original except for the trigger and floating trigger pin from CGW) and doesn’t have any problems resetting.

[LDBennett141]

Yes, I did try both adjustment (done correctly!) with no help. And the original trigger pull was near yours. I prefer trigger pulls closer to 2 pounds and have adjusted other guns' triggers to that level. I much prefer real two stage triggers with a light first stage and a step up in pull level for the second stage. I have several guns with two stage triggers set up that way. The best example is my Benelli MP90S with adjustments for all aspects of the trigger control. That is to be expected of an expensive Olympic style pistol, not a "tactical" pistol.

Be aware that I don't compete, don't shoot tactical exercises, and limit my shooting to range paper target shooting. I changed the sights to match those requirements. A fast reset means nothing to me but it is a problem if the gun fails to reset and then goes off while I try to figure out why the trigger pull did not immediately set the cartridge off.

It is possible that the original trigger/trigger bar spring was under powered. It had the same dimensions as the new spring I replaced it with (after deforming the legs). It is also possible that some errant friction was slowing the trigger motion down during reset. But I saw no indication of that on inspection. The bottom line now is that the reset is now strong enough and the trigger pull is not grossly different and in fact matches my desired level (by chance).

To be clear, I am very aware of how triggers work as I have made a detailed study of them over the last 35 years. You (George16) obviously understand them too. I have also modified many of my own triggers in all manner of guns. Thank you for your comments. Others that come here may be able to learn a bit about triggers from both of our comments. I love it when others can be educated.

LDBennett

[M1A4ME]

LD, eyesight is what it is.  I wear two pairs of glasses when I work on the guns now.  My reading glasses just don't help me see well enough between the small parts and angles, etc.  The second pair of glass makes all that nice and sharp again.

Have to hold my head/eyes closer to the work, but I can see what I need to see.

[LDBennett141]

M1A4ME:

Yes, getting the right glasses certainly helps. But my problem is a bit different because NO glasses can help my eyesight! My problem comes with age (I'll be 80 in December).

I have Age-related Macular Degeneration (AMD). Both eyes have deteriorated retinas. One is at the place on the retina where sharp focus is established and the other eye has deteriaton over other parts of the retina that distorts my vision from that eye. When my brain tries to put the two images together it fails and I loose depth perception. I had given up working on guns about two years ago but this trigger reset problem is so unsafe I just had to tackle it as occasionally family members might use the gun. I am very close to not being able to drive anymore as I certainly could not renew my Drivers License. Amazingly I can still shoot with red dot sights and glowing fiber optic sights. With an enlarged computer screen and image I can use my computer. Oh well, such is life.

I appreciate you comment but unfortunately for me it is long past being relevant for me, specifically. Others might gain some insight, though.

LDBennett

[LDBennett141]

I would like to point out that the Tactical Sports trigger, while very good indeed, is not perfect and here is why:

Triggers like this single action only CZ trigger have several parts to their pull

1). Take-up where the trigger bar is moving toward touching the sear (adjustable on this gun)
2). Creep where the sear is moving across the sear/hammer engagement surface of the hammer
3). Let-off where the sear falls off the sear/hammer engagement surface of the hammer, releasing the hammer to fall
4). Over-travel of the trigger after the gun fires (adjustable on this gun)

My CZ Tactical Sport has some creep. But it is creep that is just detectable, but creep none the less. Now, creep is always necessary to some extent because it represents the engagement of the sear onto the hammer’s engagement surface. If you have none then the trigger is probably not safe. What is not so good is when the engagement angles are wrong and you get cam-back of the hammer during the trigger pull as your pull is working against the hammer spring which is a strong spring. My Tactical Sports has no cam back. I could do a trigger job on the sear to minimize creep, but the trigger is so light and the creep so small I think the effort would have diminished gains. When I contacted CZ about this reset issue they offered a “trigger kit”. But the resultant pull level was more than a pound more than my 2 pound trigger pull. I choose to not go that way and what I have now seems just fine. If this were a 22LR Target pistol I might consider doing a trigger job to reduce that creep.

I have written on triggers on other forums. If you think you might want more detailed information I could open posts here with trigger tutorials. Just ask.

LDBennett

[LDBennett141]

Took the gun (Tactical Sports) with the modified trigger spring to the range. It shot great. The trigger reset is easily felt (not so before) and was totally reliable (reset every shot!). And the trigger pull is right at 2 pounds. Love it!

LDBennett