CZ 75 B Omega 9mm Reloads for Accuracy

[JRSR]

I'm new to reloading and I just finished shooting 4.6 grains of Winchester 231 with a 115 grain DG bullet RNBB (lead with a coating), 1.104 OAL.  I thought it seemed pretty accurate at 15 yards with 1-2 inch groups on a bench rest.  I'm interested in other loads and powders that are accurate for the CZ 75 B?

Equipment
Caliber:  9x19 Luger
Bullets:  DG Bullets 115 gn RN BB NLG
Brass:    Mixed
Powder:  Winchester 231 4.6 gn
Max Velocity:  N/A
Primer:  Winchester Small Pistol Primer
OAL:     1.104
Pistol:    CZ 75 B Omega
Qty:      10 rounds slow fired on bench rest
Weather:  80 degress
Chrono:  N/A



NOTES  [Insights like the following are always appreciated]
• Metered very well due to small grain size
• 1-2 inch grouping at 15 yds

[Wobbly]

Welcome Aboard !

Suggestions...
• CZ barrels will shoot 115gr very accurately, but the twist rate favors 124gr. Saying this I note that member JoeL shoots 115gr at 100yds with outstanding results.

• Jacketed bullets will give much more consistent results over Lead or Plated. Bullets from Zero, Precision Delta and Rocky Mntn Reloading (RMR) seem to be the preferred vendors. RMR is advising that they currently have 124gr jacketed in stock.

More to come....

[JRSR]

Wobbly,

Thank you very much!!

[Wobbly]

Welcome Aboard !

Suggestions...
• CZ barrels will shoot 115gr very accurately, but the twist rate favors 124gr. Saying this I note that member JoeL shoots 115gr at 100yds with outstanding results.

• Jacketed bullets will give much more consistent results over Lead or Plated. Bullets from Zero, Precision Delta and Rocky Mntn Reloading (RMR) seem to be the preferred vendors. RMR is advising that they currently have 124gr jacketed in stock.

• In RMR you can either go with the JHP or their "Match Winner". Both get rave reviews. If you are wanting to try some 147gr, then their 147gr Match Winner is one of a handful that can successfully negotiate the CZ barrel. (But you'd need a slower powder than W231 for 147gr.)

• In case you didn't know, W231 is the exact same as Hodgdon HP-38. So often you won't see loads listed for both in your manual, and that's why. You simply need to know that bit. If you need to replenish, then HP-38 is usually $1 less expensive (at least in my area).

• Looks like W231 has about a 1.2gr load range for 115gr. I know you're just getting started, but a better test would be 6-10 at 4.4gr, 6-10 at 4.6gr, 6-10 at 4.8gr, and so on. You'll not only see the velocity climb, but the POI climb as well. And you'll also see the groups tighten up too. The lowest load with the tightest group is the one your gun loves. From then on there's really no reason to load anything else as long as you're loading those bullets with that powder. Change bullets or powder and it starts all over again.



• W231/HP-38 is a genuinely great powder for the novice. It's wide load range makes it VERY forgiving of small beginner mistakes, and it meters like a dream. I'm glad that's what you ended up with. Soon you'll have some other powder choices, and I would suggest something slightly slower for increased accuracy. Maybe BE-86, N340, Power Pistol, Silhouette, or such. Not Unique because at this point it's truly outdated.

• If you 'll use a target like the TQ-2, then they are small enough to store in a recipe box. You can compare targets from 10 years ago and find out if today's powder is any better. Pretty handy. Get them from National Target Co. https://www.nationaltarget.com/index.php



• Lastly I'd like to insist that you get a notebook of some type for keeping your own personal notes. Loose leaf, spiral bound, hard bound lab notebook.... your choice. I like to reserve a new page for each individual bullet. This because the OAL is tied to the bullet shape. You may shoot two 115gr lead bullets, but they could load at different OALs, which would change the optimum load. It might also change die settings and a host of other "lessons learned" as you go. Besides it's just nice to get an order of bullets in that you haven't used in 3 years, flip the notebook open to that page and everything you need to know is right there. Might look like this....



At the top of the page all the important bullet information and die settings. Then all the loads with different powders and follow-on information.

And be sure and read our Stickies on reloading at the very top of the page. Indispensable info there.


All the best. 

[M1A4ME]

So far, all my CZ 9MM pistols do very well with 115 grain hollow points from Precision Delta or the 115 grain hollow points that Everglades sells.  Bullets look different, but seem to shoot the same.

So far I've not tried a lot of 124 grain hollow points.

The Federal 115 grain FMJ 9MM ammo shoots as well as my hollow point reloads.  Sometimes I'd buy those to "save" the hollow point loads.

Oh, my 115 grain hollow point loads use Blue Dot powder.  A compressed load with a slow burning power that is almost 10% below the max load listed in the manual I saw it in.  Tried a few other powders but haven't gotten comparable groups with them, yet.  Still spending money to try other powders though.

[JRSR]

Wobbly,

Many thanks for the in depth response.  It is great to have a pro helping me out.  I purchased some jacketed 124gn bullets from Precision Delta.  Gonna give them a try in the next few weeks. 

[JRSR]

M1A4ME,

I just took a look at the Everglades website.  They seem to have the 124 gn jacketed bullets in stock.  Thanks for the heads up!

[Wobbly]

I purchased some jacketed 124gn bullets from Precision Delta.  Gonna give them a try in the next few weeks.

Welcome back.

Were these the FMJ or the JHP ? They make both and each will load completely differently. So if you happened to order a few of both, then you'll need to do 2 setups, and have 2 separate pages in your reloading notebook.

Just to recount, you'd need to do the "push test" as explained in the Stickies. Then because of the way the 2 bullets interact with the barrel, you'll get 2 vastly different Max OALs.



Just as in the cartoon above, the JHP (on the left) will interact at the shoulder (the sharp corner) of the bullet, whereas the FMJ will interact somewhere along the ogive (as in the right example). But that's simply the Max OAL. Your Min OAL will be when the bullet is too far into the case to get a good taper crimp. (Like having an anvil when making horse shoes, you need the solid bullet reinforcing the case mouth as you crimp.) Then your final Production OAL can be any number you like BETWEEN Max OAL and Min OAL. (That's the Science of reloading.) So you actually have a range of OAL to choose for before you go into production making new ammo. (That choice is the Art of reloading.)

Since you mentioned you wanted to load accurate ammo, one thing we've leaned here is that ammo performs better when seated AT LEAST 0.200" into the case. If you can get a depth of 0.230", then that's fantastic !

So a graph of your OAL choices starts to look like this...


Of course then, if the OAL mentioned in your manual is longer than your Production OAL of choice, then you either need to 1) get more published load data, or 2) learn how to reduce your loads so that you can load to those shorter OALs your CZ prefers. And we can teach you how to do that, if and when you need to cross that bridge. (Having a chrono really helps at that point.)

Just remember through all this that the Barrel is the Queen. She's the one making all the demands on the ammo. If you want your very best results, then just like in a successful marriage, you got to keep the Queen happy. It's a "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy" type of situation.

[If you have multiple 9mm guns, then you need to do all the "push testing" on every barrel, and then load for the most restrictive case. DO NOT load special OAL ammo for each pistol, that's simply an invitation for trouble. Yes, it's a royal PIA... that's why we're telling you up-front.]

Hope this helps. Keep us informed how things are going.

 

[rg422]

Wobbly, your posts are always appreciated. I remember reading your posts when I started a couple years back.

OP, just from my personal experience, consistency is key when finding a load that works. When I test new loads, I tend to use same cases rather than mixed. It is only after I find a load that works do I start using mixed brass. I’ve never used those bullets, but DG 147s are very accurate for me (Shadow 2s and TSO). I too tend to test at 15 yards as I cannot see farther out using a cheap plastic rest to stabilize my gun.

Richard

[JRSR]

Wobbly,

Thanks for all of the help.  I just received the Precision Delta 124 FMJ.  I'm wondering if you have a load for that particular bullet.  I'm using Lyman's reloading manual.  It says for the win 231 3.8gn - 4.5gn.  1.060 OAL.  Any more help is appreciated.

[nicky]

You need to do the push test with those new PD 124gr. FMJ.
Tell us what you get.

[Wobbly]

Thanks for all of the help.  I just received the Precision Delta 124 FMJ.  I'm wondering if you have a load for that particular bullet.  I'm using Lyman's reloading manual.  It says for the W231 3.8gn - 4.5gn.  1.060 OAL.  Any more help is appreciated.

• I love the FMJ's from PD. Those are one of my very favorites. You'll probably be able to load them out to something like 1.160" going by the "push test", but don't forget the 0.20" minimum case engagement we suggested.

• My last notes are from 2009, when I was using 1.130" as an OAL, and 4.1 to 4.3gr W231 depending upon the gun's springing. As I remember, 3.8gr wouldn't even fully operate the slide.

• As per RG422, run all your testing in matched cases. If you now use mixed brass, then go ahead and pick out 50 or 80 of a particular brand and set them aside, solely to use in testing. Brand doesn't matter as long as they all match. Those will get lower use, but they'll serve a very important roll. And you can start with this bullet's testing.

All you'll need is 8 rounds at 4.0gr, 8 at 4.1gr, 8 at 4.2gr, and 8 at 4.3gr, which will be an abbreviated test, but still get you all the info while still having all the safety precautions you'll need. If I remember I was shooting 4.2gr for the longest, and then 1SOW convinced me that I wasn't meeting Min PF. That's when I went to 4.3gr.

• But realize that all this data and the 4.3gr final is based on us both using 14# recoil springs from Wolff Gun Springs. Your results may vary. If you order, consider that shipping is sometimes more than the cost of spring, so go ahead and buy 2 or 3 sets, either the same of varied strengths.

• Be sure to take your Seating Die apart and insure your bullet fits the seating stem (or anvil) very tightly. You want the stem to center the bullet AND push with enough surface area so that the ogive isn't mangled. In order to seat the bullet straight, there should be a pocket or funnel shape that guides the ogive to the center, with no side-to-side slop. Not all seating stems have enough contact area to seat without leaving marks, but the surface should be smooth so that it doesn't rip, tear, or distort the bullet's nose. If you could tell us what brand die you use, sometimes I can help, either with suggestions or by re-machining the anvil. You can also build up a flat-ish anvil with JB Weld epoxy. There are lots of ways to "skin this cat". The object is to have perfectly seated, concentric bullets, so that if the cartridges are rolled on a smooth countertop, you see ZERO wobble.


Hope this helps.

[JRSR]

Great information!  Thank you very much for all of the help.  I'm using RCBS dies. 

[Rcher]

I haven't tried yet PD 124gr, still have Berry's 124. For Berry's my optimal load is 4.0 gr of W231.
It is not hot load, but has better or similar accuracy than 4.1 and 4.2. And cycles well in all my guns. Tried even with new Wolff springs.

[Wobbly]

Yes, that's true. The Berry product, being plated and ever so slightly softer, will require slightly less powder than a true jacketed, such as the PD 124gr FMJ.