Author Topic: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews  (Read 627 times)

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Offline GypsyDanger

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Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« on: August 03, 2021, 09:09:06 PM »


I'm surprised CZ hasn't marketed it much. It really is a wonderful handgun.

Offline anach

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Re: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2021, 12:54:34 AM »
I didn't realize they came stock with the DPM recoil spring setup.

I also feel like they should have made the base model optic ready. It's not a CC handgun, so the footprint of a red dot is a non issue. It took a long time to get an OR model for the 9mm, and CZ should have learned. There really isn't a reason to have non-OR models at all, Walther seems to have figured that out. They already have the slide in the mill, it can't possibly add that much extra cost.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2021, 06:30:22 AM »
Oh, dear.  I didn't want one as I have a 97B"E".  Things change.  And I can't go the range without shooting a few rounds through one of my P-10 pistols as it is. 

That is a really good YouTube review video.  Thanks for posting the link. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

DanMore

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Re: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2021, 04:21:30 PM »
I didn't realize they came stock with the DPM recoil spring setup.

I also feel like they should have made the base model optic ready. It's not a CC handgun, so the footprint of a red dot is a non issue. It took a long time to get an OR model for the 9mm, and CZ should have learned. There really isn't a reason to have non-OR models at all, Walther seems to have figured that out. They already have the slide in the mill, it can't possibly add that much extra cost.

I don`t aree on this!
Specially for competition shooters, where the pistol has to fit in a box, running a OR Model with higher sights can cause the pistol not to be allowed.
The P10 F has a very long grip and overall pistol hight, measuring 150mm with standard sights and inserted magazine. The Co Whitness Sights increase the overall pistol hight.
Here in Germany we have competitions where the P10F as standard version (non OR) with work, as OR it won`t. This has nothing to do with 9mm or .45 Auto.
The max hight with inserted magazine fits flush into box, as non OR.

Offline GypsyDanger

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Re: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2021, 10:35:02 PM »
Oh, dear.  I didn't want one as I have a 97B"E".  Things change.  And I can't go the range without shooting a few rounds through one of my P-10 pistols as it is. 

That is a really good YouTube review video.  Thanks for posting the link. 

Joe

Thank you Joe. I appreciate the sub!

Offline anach

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Re: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2021, 03:35:19 AM »
I didn't realize they came stock with the DPM recoil spring setup.

I also feel like they should have made the base model optic ready. It's not a CC handgun, so the footprint of a red dot is a non issue. It took a long time to get an OR model for the 9mm, and CZ should have learned. There really isn't a reason to have non-OR models at all, Walther seems to have figured that out. They already have the slide in the mill, it can't possibly add that much extra cost.

I don`t aree on this!
Specially for competition shooters, where the pistol has to fit in a box, running a OR Model with higher sights can cause the pistol not to be allowed.
The P10 F has a very long grip and overall pistol hight, measuring 150mm with standard sights and inserted magazine. The Co Whitness Sights increase the overall pistol hight.
Here in Germany we have competitions where the P10F as standard version (non OR) with work, as OR it won`t. This has nothing to do with 9mm or .45 Auto.
The max hight with inserted magazine fits flush into box, as non OR.

Why would the OR model HAVE to have higher sights? CZ could make a lower set of sights if the competition market was the primary driver of sales, or the blank plate could have a dovetail that fits standard CZ sights at standard height. Or, the blank plate could have the rear sights milled in directly. The competition size box is an artificial constraint and engineering solutions from the factory are as mind-blowingly simple as they are numerous. If you just mean that cowitness sights are taller, I don't see why cowitness sights would be standard with the gun. The gun isn't being sold with a red dot, it's going to be sold with a blanking plate under the assumption that many users won't bother adding a red dot right away. A new set of sights is easy, milling a slide or buying a new slide or gun isn't. My argument is that the ability to mount an optic at the user's convenience and choice is an option that shouldn't add additional cost and should be standard on every gun they ship.

Furthermore, I don't think this is marketed as a competition gun. It's a full frame duty pistol in 45 ACP, emphasis on "duty". I imagine a single mil or leo contract will easily outweigh all the sales to German IPCS competitors interested in running production+major PF class (As will sales to a single state like Kansas or Arizona in the US). I don't mean to belittle the needs of a small subset of the global market for firearms, but tailoring a mass produced polymer frame gun for the IPSC box and ignoring the single biggest technological advancement in firearms technology (compact, reliable, no-hassle optics) when all of their competitors (Glock MOS, Walther PDP, Beretta APX OR, SIG M17, etc.) and CZ themselves (P-10 OR models) obviously see the market demand, is not a good management or sales strategy.

I will also posit that, if CZ intended the P-10 for competition primarily, they would be selling a billion special models like they do with the hammer fired steel frame line (it's getting a little silly with how many SKUs they have). They make no money from the current aftermarket triggers from HBI/CZC or APEX parts whereas they probably make a killing on the TSO, Shadow 2 (insert model name here), etc. They could have come out the gates with all manner of aftermarket if they really cared about the competition scene. Instead, we got a simple, robust, and fantastic handgun clearly aimed at trying to displace the ubiquitous Glock from LEO hands. (yes, I know a striker fired poly frame gun is much simpler in lockwork and they wouldn't need half a dozen different suffixes for the different safety/trigger/decocker/FP block, but I bet they could try)

-end rant-
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 03:44:53 AM by anach »

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2021, 07:25:09 AM »
CZ doesn't ship their other O.R. models with tall sights anyway.

DanMore

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Re: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2021, 04:06:31 PM »
On the P10-F OR, the rear dovetail is in a different position, then on the regular P10-F. So the standard rear sight from the P10-F will not fit.

I have the P10-F and I had a P10-F from a club member here and the sights on the OR model are higher, so they can be used as co witness sights.
If you shoot a competition, where the firearm has to fit into a bos measuring 150mm in hight, 225mm in length and 45mm in depth, the P10-F standard modell will just fit snug into the box.

Using the OR sights, it will not. We tried it.
If the plate would be milled, the pistol would not be in it`s factory condition and that could cause the pistol not to be allowed in the competition.

It dosn`t really matter, if the P10 is marketed as a competition firearm or not. A Glock 17 is not either, or Walther PPQ, Smith & Wesson M&P and so on. But if shooting in a duty firearm competition, production competition, ect. where you will find duty firearms, you will also find a CZ P10, just like you will find a Glock

Offline anach

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Re: Here's my review of the P10F in .45 - Lead & Steel Reviews
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2021, 06:04:25 PM »
On the P10-F OR, the rear dovetail is in a different position, then on the regular P10-F. So the standard rear sight from the P10-F will not fit.

I know.

I have the P10-F and I had a P10-F from a club member here and the sights on the OR model are higher, so they can be used as co witness sights.
If you shoot a competition, where the firearm has to fit into a bos measuring 150mm in hight, 225mm in length and 45mm in depth, the P10-F standard modell will just fit snug into the box.

I understand that.

If the plate would be milled, the pistol would not be in it`s factory condition and that could cause the pistol not to be allowed in the competition.

If the factory ships the gun with a plate with a dovetail, how is that not "factory"? I'm not saying you should have to mill the plate yourself. You don't seem to understand what I am trying to say.


It dosn`t really matter, if the P10 is marketed as a competition firearm or not. A Glock 17 is not either, or Walther PPQ, Smith & Wesson M&P and so on. But if shooting in a duty firearm competition, production competition, ect. where you will find duty firearms, you will also find a CZ P10, just like you will find a Glock

You are absolutely right. A duty gun should be able to be used for whatever you want. Heck, conceal carry it (not in the EU) if you want. But, my point is that the competition box is NOT and SHOULD NOT be the driving design guideline for a DUTY gun. The only thing stopping the 9mm OR model from working in your desired class in your GAME is a ridiculous and arbitrary distinction on how tall a "duty stock gun" can be. Period. (well that and CZ's understandable decision to ship cowitness sights with the SPECIAL optic ready edition.)

I'm done here. Apologies to GypsyDanger for the thread hijack.