CZ P-07 Recoil Sprig Recommendation

[Larry F]

Just acquired a P-07 Duty 40 S&W Caliber - my first CZ pistol.  I have detail stripped, polished the action parts, and installed CGW springs to lighten and smooth trigger action.  Pistol feeds, fires, and ejects 180gr AE FMJ (400 Ft# Muzzle Enery) ammunition OK with both the Blue Factory and 18# CGW recoil springs but may be undersprung for higher energy 165gr JHP (470 Ft#) self defense ammunition.  Any recommendations and user experiences concerning durability would be appreciated.  Thks, Larry

[Claymore504]

I would think you would not need to go any heavier than the factory stock one since that is what it was designed to use. May be better info out there though.

[Wobbly]

With the ammo you now use.... how far are the spent cases being thrown ??

6 to 10 feet is considered "normal", with 8 feet being "optimal" springing.

[Larry F]

6 to 8 Ft with either recoil spring - this is with 180gr (400 Ft# muzzle energy) FMJ practice ammunition.  This is what makes me think a stiffer spring may be needed for 165 gr (470 Ft# muzzle energy) carry ammunition.  I'm considering trying a 20# IMSI glock 19 spring and hoped top get some meaningful input from experienced P-07 users.  Thks, Larry 

[M1A4ME]

My (old) P07 DUTY in .40 S&W has been running the same recoil spring assembly for 10 or 11 years.  I shoot, mostly, my own reloads in it.  135 grain Nosler hollow points sitting on top of a compressed charge of Blue Dot.  It's like shooting a .357 magnum revolver.  Lots of bark/recoil and shoots awesome looking groups.

Zero issues so far.

Is yours a true DUTY pistol?  Stamped DUTY on the slide?  No front slide serrations?  Rounded trigger?  Or a newer P07 without DUTY on the slide, with front slide serrations to help you pull the slide to the rear from the front and the flatter/later model trigger?

Mine is the original model/old DUTY pistol and had a standard sort of guide rod and recoil spring that I had to fight with to get it back in place when re-assembling the pistol after cleaning/lubing.  I bought a newer "captured" recoil spring from CZ USA for the .40 S&W P07 pistols and had to drill the recoil spring guide hole in the front of the slide out a bit to get the new assembly to fit (so that's one more difference between the DUTY pistols and the later P07s).

Bottom line is mine has been using the factory recoil spring assembly for a .40 S&W P07 for years without issues.

How far do the empties go?  Way out there.  If I'm shooting inside/under the range cover/roof I've had them bounce off the roof above me and end up 12 to 15 feet away on the concrete.  I tend to try to get close to the wire dividers between the benches to try to keep the empties from going so high/far.

Usually, when buying the springs/spring assemblies, there should be some text in the description to let you know what pistol it's for, what caliber its for and what the lb. rating is.  Used to be, a few years back.

If you do have the later pistol with the captured recoil spring you can replace it, if you like, with an aftermarket metal guide rod and spring that is not captured on the guide rod.  That allows you to pick/choose the spring weight and keep using your aftermarket metal guide.

[M1A4ME]

Just went to the CZ USA web store.  Not clear/good as it used to be.

If I select pistol/P07/.40/recoil spring assembly it shows me a 9MM recoil spring assembly.  Maybe they are the same, but it doesn't explain that in the text.

Going through the same selection process for the P07 DUTY .40 it will show me the old style guide rod but when you then choose recoil spring it says it can't find any results. 

If that pistol truly a DUTY pistol (old style/first model) you might have to call to enquire about a recoil spring.  Or try to buy and aftermarket spring for that separate recoil spring guide those pistols had.  Some companies (CZ Custom and/or Cajun Gun Works) used to sell recoil spring packs with different lb. ratings so you could buy two or three different strength springs and use them to set the pistol up for the loads you shoot that fit the separate style guide rods.

Good luck with it.  Glad I bought spares years ago to put away since CZ isn't making (and looks like not supporting some parts) for the older pistols and the .40's.  Some parts will be the same and work fine (9MM or .40, same parts) and some may be okay to use even if you can't find CZ explanation/text to explain that.

[Larry F]

I do have the original P-07 Duty .40 Model with an uncaptured Blue color code recoil spring - the pistol is used but doesn't show much wear.  I am using the uncaptured factory and CGW recoil springs on a solid metal guide rod.  Good info -thks.  Tip - I drill a 5/64" cross hole about a 1/2" from the tip end of the guide rod and prewind the recoil spring onto the guide rod using a punch to facilitate installation.  Are you seeing any damage on the Slide Stop Pin as you must be getting  pretty fast slide cycling considering the ejection distances you report with the hot ammunition.   I will try a 20# GLOCK 19 IMSI spring considering the ejection distances you are seeing and have some concern about the slide stop pin holding up as several commentors say this pin may break with high round count usage.   

[M1A4ME]

Well, the old style set up does allow you to experiment with heavier springs. 

I have no idea what other brands of springs may fit/work in the P07.  Might be other forum members here that could make recommendations based on their tests/trials.

I've read the flat wire springs last up to five times as long as the older wire springs.  Can't say it's so, it's what the advertisers say.

I've not noticed wear/damage to the slide stop pin.

Some owners report broken slide stop pin issues but it seems, in my memory, it's usually not the P07/P09 pistols but the metal framed CZ pistols.  I've read the polymer frames flex a small amount and tend to help absorb/spread out/make the shock of slide movement less of an issue vs. metal framed pistols.

Slide stop pin breakage has been reported as an issue by some owners and those using their pistols hard for competition/training say they often keep a spare, or two, with them when going to the range.  So far I've not broken one in any CZ, or other pistol.

[Claymore504]

Primary Machine Sells a guide rod and spring options as well. Seems they may only have stock and then lighter. Also guessing that is based on 9mm.
https://primarymachine.com/products/cz-comps/

Maybe get an uncapture guide rod and then lok around on Wolff Springs site and experiment.

[Larry F]

I'm using a solid metal recoil guide rod and an uncaptured P-07 (Blue color code) and an 18# CGW recoil spring to this point and seeing about 8" ejection distances with 400 Ft# muzzle energy ammunition.  Started this dialog to see if other users could provide in put on if a stiffer recoil spring would be smart with higher 470 Ft#m muzzle energy.  I don't have previous experience with CZ pistols and looking for any help I can get in setting up this pistol. I've found the a IMSI flat wire spring intended for a Glock 19 pistol will work in the P-07 pistol without going solid before the slide hits it's stop in the frame.  May or may not be a help here as the extra spring stiffness will undoubtedly increase both muzzle dip and impact loading on the slide stop pin which seems to be a high round count failure possibility but it's worth a $10 trial.  Thks, Larry   

[Larry F]

Comment and questions for M1A4ME.  Thks for your input - informative and helpful and speaks loads about the P-07's durability.  Your Nosler handload looks to be equivalent to Underwood 135 gr Extreme ammunition which produces a 580 Ft# muzzle energy and about 25% more recoil than I expect with 165gr HST and PDX1 self defense ammunition.  I suspect that your Captured Spring Recoil Assembly may use the same factory recoil spring as I am using (the same spring simply wound onto a new recoil rod having an enlarged tip to minimize customer complaints) - does it have a Blue color code?  I do buy your comment that the polymer frame cushions impacts loads on the slide stop pin but is probably what makes is susceptable to the Bulging phenomena associated with this particular pistol.  Does your frame show a noticeable bulge in the area surrounding the pinhole into which the slide stop spring is inserted - more so than the areas along the sides of the front inset?  Thks, Larry   

[M1A4ME]

Of I forgot to mention it, going with the captured recoil spring assembly for the later P07s means opening up the guide hole in the front of the frame.  Didn't seem hard to do.  The slide did seem to be pretty hard and I think I ruined a drill bit as only the outside edges of the bit were removing metal from the slide.

Light blue painted (?) recoil spring.

I can see the gap on either side of the frame between the metal insert and the plastic.  The gap runs the length of the metal insert, so it may not really be a bulge, just a fit/clearance thing.  Can't even get a sheet of paper in there on either side.  Cannot see any sign of it from the outside of the frame.

Slide stop is still a PITB to get out of the frame.  With the slide held back on the hammer at half cock I have to make several attempts with my thumb and finger tips to pull the slide stop out while wiggling it up/down.  Sometimes it seems to get a bit quicker/easier if I use the hand holding the slide to the rear to slightly release and pull rearward on the slide while trying to get the slide stop out.

Might be why it's still so darn accurate.  In case you haven't seen other posts of mine, I buy too darn many different pistols trying to find something that will shoot like my P07/P09.  Then I try different ammo and try working up loads for them.  When I got to the range and get particularly frustrated at the lousy groups (compared to the P07/P09) I sometimes feel the need to check if it's me having a bad day or the new pistol/loads.  I'll pull the P07 out fo the IWB holster and shoot 5 shots at the same distance and that lets me know if the 2 or 3" groups are my fault or not when the P07 shoots one of these.

Thought I had one a bit better than this one, can't seem to find it on imgur though.  No, I don't know why I waste money trying to make other guns shoot like that cheap P07 DUTY .40, but I do.  And I have about given up.  Don't need anymore FN, SIG, M&P or XD pistols.  Really.

[Larry F]

Your experience with heavy duty ammunition has been of considerable help as I work my way thru setting up my P-07 Duty for use.  Suggestion for you to consider regarding your challenge in removing the slide stop pin.  The first 3/16" of pin travel lifts the slide stop spring out of it's groove and the magazine stub out of the frame so that the lever can rotate freely.  Figure out where and why the binding occurs - the slide stop spring is binding in it's groove (not likely), the lever binds up when the pin is still engaged in both sides of the insert - stiff but lever can be rotated or jiggled a bit (pin is bent slightly), or pin is stiff to rotate when only engaged in the left side of the insert (pin is bent for sure).  My experience so far is I use a 3/32" pin punch and (by push (by hand) the stop pin past the hold down spring and out the right side of the insert and it falls out of the frame by itself - my pin engages and rotates freely in the insert without the slide in place and the slide locking lug surfaces that it engages in cycling look pretty smooth.  I wouldn't be surprised if your pin isn't bent slightly considering your ammunition choice as the original design criteria for 40 caliber ammunition was 400 Ft#'s of Muzzle Energy (you are approaching 600 Ft#) and how long you've used the same spring.     

I see the same frame bulge areas that you do plus I can see that the previous owner had trouble seating the slide stop pin into the slide and pounded it into place creating a small round bulge around the pin hole in the frame that the spring is inserted into.  Still working on how to remove this bulge as the original Duty version frame polymer is like a Glock and pliable (no fiberglass filler). 

I now have a 20# glock 19 IMSI flat wire recoil coil spring in hand.  It fits fine on my metal P-07 guide rod ( has same ID and OD), the same number of coils (30) as both the CZ factory (Blue) and CGW 18# recoil springs but is a bit longer as the coils are spaced further apart.  It is compressed about .20" more than if installed in  4" barrel glock 19 but cycles ok and allows the slide to have full motion without going solid and binding.  I expect that it to only be a bit stiffer than the factory spring as it's compressed .20" more the the factory spring when installed.  Will update use results as available.     

[M1A4ME]

Made me unload and field strip my old P07 again.

You know, when I bought the P07 DUTY .40 CZ USA was selling P07 DUTY 9MM uppers (I assume coming off swelled frame guns that were exchanged??)  I bought one so I'd have 9 or .40 with a change of the top end and magazines/ammo.  I also bought a new slide release to go with it because I didn't care for the idea of working two different barrels against a single slide stop pin (increase wear issues occur in lots of thing if you mix different used parts back and forth).  Then I started buying P09 9MM magazines (extra capacity vs. P07 9MM magazines and then I had another "excuse" to buy a 9MM P09.

I forget about that 9MM DUTY slide on the shelf.  Anyway, I grabbed it of the shelf, grabbed the P07 DUTY .40 and sat down with some parts.

P07 DUTY .40, shot a lot.  My main concealed carry gun anytime I go off my property except on road trips when my P07 9MM gets carried to give me and my wife the same ammo type if needed.  I also shoot some 140 grain lead and lead coated bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. using Herco powder, but not a lot of them.  The shoot fine, function fine and hit the same POI at 10 to 12 yds. the 135 grain Noslers and Blue Dot hit.  Great luck there.  No idea of the velocity of either load.

The P07 DUTY 9MM slide.  I put it on the .40 frame and shot a couple magazines through it 10 or 12 years ago and then cleaned it, lubed it and put it on the shelf and kind of forgot about it.  Can't say what kind of ammo I shot through it back then as I wasn't into 9's till I got the P09 9MM.

Tonight, looking at both slide stop pins, the 9MM shows more finish wear (a lot more) than the P07 .40 slide stop.  No idea why other than fit to the lugs on the 9MM barrel.  Nothing you can feel with your finger nail.  No dip/wear visible to the eye that makes it look like metal is missing (just shiny instead of black.

The .40 slide stop pin has that one skinny wear/shiny spot on it but again, no fingernail detectable metal missing and not visible when twisted/turned in the light.

I installed the 9MM slide and slide stop pin in the .40 frame and it was just as hard to remove the pin as the well used .40 slide stop pin. 

I took the 9MM slide off the frame and inserted the 9MM slide stop pin in the frame and it is darn difficult to remove even with the slide off the frame. 

Same for the .40 slide stop pin in the frame with no .40 slide on it.

I looked further and both pins slide in easy, till the tip hits the spring leg that holds the slide stop pin in the frame.  Then they both get tough to finish pushing in (I usually smack them with the edge of my hand - like a karate chop) to full seat them in the frame when reassembling.)

Both are tought to pull out until the end of the slide stop pin is past that spring leg.  Then they basically fall out of the frame.

The 9MM pin seems a little bit sloppier in the frame until contacting the spring leg, but that could just be my perception and not really fact.

I can lay the two pins so they are touching and then slide them around each other and never see a gap between the two like one is bent.  Both appear to be straight.

I don't think the .40 pin is bent.  I do believe it's that retaining spring that makes the pin so difficult to remove at the beginning (I get them started on all my CZ pistols with the corner of the plastic magazine base to get them started and not scratch the finish.)

I think I need to take the darn 9MM slide assembly and put it on the 9MM P07 frame and see it shoots better than the newer P07 9MM shoots.  If so I'm going to be sorry I already got the new P07 9MM slide milled for the red dot and back up sights.

Don't know if any of that info is helpful, but after reading your post I figured I ought to check/compare and see if I could see and bending going on.

[Larry F]

You've done enough sleuthing to convince me you pin isn't bent and working fine.  I ran into the same difficulty getting the pin out and back in place.  I've started pushing the pin out by hand with a 3/32" pin punch (an essential tool in working on Glocks, P series Sigs and Polymer Frame Walthers) and beveling the leading edge on the pin where it hits the spring enough to be able to just push the pin back into place.

My impression of 40 caliber pistols to this point has been that they won't stand up to hard use.  I acquired this P-)7 Duty pistol from a friend who had bought it new, didn't like the recoil, put it in the closet, was looking for some extra Christmas spending funding, and was offering it for $250.  I really just took him up on the offer as a lark to give me something to tinker with over the winter.  My technique for setting up a pistol is to read the forums (mostly of limited value as they don't usually get into technical details and meaningful shortcomings are drummed out by Fanboys - Even CGW doesn't really have much real world experience with 40 caliber CZ's) buy some spare parts and tune the action to reduce trigger pull weight and friction to where it will still function with Winchester and Federal (Soft Primer) ammunition, and set the recoil spring for the ammunition power I'll be using.  I quickly ran into the limited aftermarket support for CZ pistols and spare parts availability.  I'm trying to replace the original uncaptured factory recoil spring as the current one isn't any stiffer the an 18# CGW which they really developed for the 9mm pistol.  I've used flat wire aftermarket Glock recoil springs in polymer frame Wather pistols to remedy sloppy slide to frame fit complaints and think they may be a fix here as well since they have the same ID and OD dimensions as the P-07.  Your input is leading me to think the 40 caliber P-07 may be more durable than I expected from a long term usage perspective. 

You can use Glock 19 ISMI flat wire spring with your existing guide rod by spreading the first coil enough to get it past the enlarged tip and then just winding it into place if you choose to try stiffer springs for less ejection distance.  Thks, Larry