Author Topic: What should I do? How to add a DPP to a Shadow 2 Orange? Cajun / CZ Cus / Plate?  (Read 4843 times)

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Offline asn

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I have a Shadow II Orange on the way that I want to put an optic on for USPSA.  I am leaning towards a Deltapoint Pro.  Should I go with their dovetail plate?  My gut is telling me no, because it will sit pretty high, so that leaves milling.  Do I go with Cajun's milling, CZ Custom's Milling, or CZ Customs RDS plate?  I have never added an optic before, always have been an iron guy. 

What are the pros and cons to the above?   Are there better options?

Also, do I add the rear backup sight for the DPP?

thank you,

Offline SoCal

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Most competitors prefer the milled slide except for open div.  The last equipment survey at the USPSA carry optics only 4% used a dovetail mount. For carry optics larger dots than a 2.5 MOA like the DDP are also very popular.  I suggest you go to a match and ask around and see if others might let you look through their optics, and if you are lucky even shoot it with the optic. 

Milling is permanent but a plate system allows different optics to be fitted.  There are so many options but if you have the slide milled any of the shops you mentioned are good as well as many others.  Check out Brian Enos's forum for "spirited" discussions on optics and how to fit them.

I have a couple of Holsuns because I like the green 32 MOA circle but recently another competitor allowed me to use the slide from his back-up (with an SRO) on my frame.  Great way to compare.

A more expensive option is to buy a second slide from someone like Primary Machine or CZC.  When I first purchased my first optic I got a second slide from CZC but I have never changed back to the iron sights, however I do have other iron sighted CZ's.
If I had known how much better being retired is than working I would have done it FIRST.

Offline tdogg

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I just went through this with my new Accushadow 2.  I went with the CZ Custom RDS plate system and purchased the iron sight plate so I could swap between irons and optic as desired.  I figured this would help with resale if I ever sold it.  The RDS plate system sits pretty low and thus the optic is low.  My SRO front glass housing sits maybe 2 mm over the slide when mounted.

I've zero'd the SRO but haven't been out much due to weather yet (still snowing here).  I shot a steel challenge and that is it thus far.  I literally got the slide back the day before the match, put it together, and shot it.  It ran great and I didn't suck that much considering it was my first time running Carry Optic.

I had to remove the front sight because it was distracting upon acquiring the sight picture.  I would see the front sight fiber optic and it would slow me down.  I took an old sight and cut off the post, blue'd it, and installed in the slide.  I obviously don't have back up sights now, I don't think it is necessary but time will tell if the SRO dot holds up.  I've seen quite a few dots die at matches so it's a gamble for sure.

Cheers,
Toby
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Offline Johnny Chimpo

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I had to remove the front sight because it was distracting upon acquiring the sight picture.

I simply blacked out the red fiber optic with a sharpie, problem solved.

Other simpler solutions:
1. Cut off the fiber optic rod and remove it
2. Change the fiber rod to green

I have co-witnessed sights on one of my carry guns and to avoid potential confusion with the RMR I changed the fiber optic rod to from red to green.  While I can see a glowing green dot in the bottom of the optic, my eyes stay target-focused and don't confuse the two.

Offline Stealth01

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Been down this road, I would NOT go with a dovetail mount, been there, done that and it was a disaster!! Milling is the only way to go!!  My Shadow II Orange is currently at Wicked Arms being milled for a Trijicon RMRcc.  The photo is my CZC Bull Shadow which was milled for an RMRcc by Wicked Arms.  Wicked Arms does outstanding work with a fast turn around time!!
 
KennyG

Offline Johnny Chimpo

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Direct milling welds you to a specific mounting footprint and limits your choices.

The CZ OEM optic plate system is superior.  It's all steel, and the plate mechanically interlocks with the slide and with the optic, leaving the screws free of shear loads.  It also lets you mount any optic that you want without restriction.


Offline tdogg

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The CZ Custom RDS plate mount system is very similar.  The plate is supported by the slide cut and thus the screws are just there to prevent the plate from sliding out (left right).  The steel SRO plate also has very tight protrusions that fit the SRO very well.  This leaves the screws that mount the SRO to the plate only preventing the optic from lifting off (protrusions support the optic from moving fore/aft or left/right).

It's a great system as far as I can tell.  If I run into issues I will share.  I only have a few hundred rounds on it thus far.

Cheers,
Toby
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Offline Johnny Chimpo

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The CZ Custom RDS plate mount system is very similar.  The plate is supported by the slide cut and thus the screws are just there to prevent the plate from sliding out (left right).  The steel SRO plate also has very tight protrusions that fit the SRO very well.  This leaves the screws that mount the SRO to the plate only preventing the optic from lifting off (protrusions support the optic from moving fore/aft or left/right).

It's a great system as far as I can tell.  If I run into issues I will share.  I only have a few hundred rounds on it thus far.

Cheers,
Toby

I've been using the CZ OEM plate system since I got my first P-10F Optics Ready in early 2020.  I've put literally close to 50K rounds combined through two P-10Fs, a P-10C, and now a Shadow 2 with that plate system with absolutely zero problems.

No loose screws, no sheared screws, no zero shifts, nothing.  It's bulletproof.

Offline Stealth01

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Milled by Wicked Arms in Baton Rouge LA. 

KennyG

Offline Togmaster

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Direct milling is always superior to an optic plate. There is less hardware involved therefore less possible points of failure. I suggest being sure which optic you want (SRO) and sending the slide out to be custom milled.
Let's go Brandon!

Offline 2morechains

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My preference is for direct milling.  Gets the dot lower (which can be subjective if it is needed or if it is more for form factor), and you then have the optic cut helping to secure the optic from all the back-and-forth of the slide movement instead of just the mounting screws. 

But what I usually recommend is to research which dot you want, bc as mentioned above direct milling marries you to one style of mounting footprint and reduces the ability to use another brand of red dot that has a different mounting footprint.  Once you settle on your brand of dot then research which machine shop to do the milling. 

Go to a match and see what other CO shooters are using.  My guess is you’ll see a lot of Trijicon SROs and various Sig optics.  The DPP was a fan-favorite there for a while since they were one of the early entries, but I don’t see as many of them these days. 

Personally I went the SRO route (which shares compatibility with Holosun) and have been very satisfied.  I did have a SRO die on me, but that was after 3 years of shooting and Trijicon repaired it under warrranty and returned it within 5 weeks.  In the meantime I shot my backup gun that also had a SRO on it and moved a Holosun over to my other gun. 

For competition guns I don’t bother with backup iron sights.  I even removed the front sight on my S2’s (just make sure you replace the cross pin that retains the barrel bushing).  For carry guns I left the front sight in place and have enough nubs on the red dot sight body to serve as rear sights should they be necessary (HS 407K).  But I’ve also practiced with the red dot off to simulate a dead dot and within 10 yds or so I can still hit the A-zone.       

Offline Johnny Chimpo

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Direct milling is always superior to an optic plate. There is less hardware involved therefore less possible points of failure. I suggest being sure which optic you want (SRO) and sending the slide out to be custom milled.
In theory yes.  In practice no.

If you can tighten one screw correctly, you can tighten four.

Direct milling leaves you locked into one optic footprint and will definitely devalue your gun for two reasons:
  • It's locked into one optic footprint
  • It's been permanently modified

Offline Johnny Chimpo

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My preference is for direct milling.  Gets the dot lower (which can be subjective if it is needed or if it is more for form factor), and you then have the optic cut helping to secure the optic from all the back-and-forth of the slide movement instead of just the mounting screws. 
Direct milling without machined bosses to mate to the optic is an inferior quality job.

All CZ optic plates have bosses to take the shear loads off the screws and they're superior to any direct mill mount for several reasons.

Offline Stealth01

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Direct milling without machined bosses to mate to the optic is an inferior quality job.

All CZ optic plates have bosses to take the shear loads off the screws and they're superior to any direct mill mount for several reasons.

Not to be argumentative but that’s an awfully broad brush statement to make.  There are several ways to “mill” an optic to a slide.  I would tend to agree with your position IF the optic were merely milled flat to add the optic to the slide.. However, there are other methods such as milling the optic “into” the slide rather than “on” the slide.  First, milling into the slide lowers the optic on the bore of the gun.  The lower the optic the better reducing any parallax.  The second benefit is the recoil load path of the optic/slide.  Where the addition of bosses could carry the shear load so can the entire frame of an optic milled into the slide.  So to say the lack of bosses is an inferior installation may be obviating other equally affective solutions…
« Last Edit: February 10, 2023, 06:48:09 PM by Wobbly, Reason: Mods reset photo width »
KennyG

Offline Johnny Chimpo

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Direct milling without machined bosses to mate to the optic is an inferior quality job.

All CZ optic plates have bosses to take the shear loads off the screws and they're superior to any direct mill mount for several reasons.

Not to be argumentative but that’s an awfully broad brush statement to make.  There are several ways to “mill” an optic to a slide.  I would tend to agree with your position IF the optic were merely milled flat to add the optic to the slide.. However, there are other methods such as milling the optic “into” the slide rather than “on” the slide.  First, milling into the slide lowers the optic on the bore of the gun.  The lower the optic the better reducing any parallax.  The second benefit is the recoil load path of the optic/slide.  Where the addition of bosses could carry the shear load so can the entire frame of an optic milled into the slide.  So to say the lack of bosses is an inferior installation may be obviating other equally affective solutions…


The only way to relieve the mounting screws from shear loads in an installation without recoil bosses is to make the pocket undersized in length in relation to the optic, heat the slide to expand the pocket, and then drop the optic in there creating an interference fit.

If you can slide the optic into the pocket at room temperature, there is clearance between the optic and the front and back edges of the pocket and the screws are taking all the shearing loads.

This is manufacturing engineering 101, something I do for a living.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2023, 06:47:41 PM by Wobbly, Reason: Mods reset photo width »