Author Topic: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm to 9x23Win...  (Read 9599 times)

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Offline 1MALIG

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Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm to 9x23Win...
« on: February 19, 2023, 04:58:36 PM »
First, took a chance a number of years ago and bought a 7.62x25mm Tokarev CZ52 complete with original holster, extra magazine, cleaning tool and lanyard from an on-line Montana Estate sale. Online ad showed only a single B/W photo of an open cardboard box with all pieces included strewn about somewhat haphazardly. All the pieces appeared to be there when I looked, just were not very well organized. Auction had about a week left and I was later somewhat surprised that no-one had bid on it yet with less than a day left. Won it later with a single bid... right place, right time! I'd done all my research on this model prior to this and knew that it was originally designed to fire 9x19mm Luger rounds.

The Soviets intervened and dictated it be changed to fire their 7.62x25mm Tokarev round. My interest was really its roller-delayed recoil system, but used in a pistol. This action is also found in the German WW2 MG-37/42 machine guns... very intriguing! My CZ52 had evidently been very little used during its 1954-77 'Soviet life' before being shipped here for sale as surplus, ...perhaps even un-issued! When I talked with the lister after the sale, he indicated that he'd found it on a top shelf in the bedroom closet while clearing out the house. It was still in its original cardboard box and evidently forgotten during the original owner's lifetime.

The CZ52 did have a few quirks and seemed to like original magazines (4 spot welds) better than the newer ones with five I bought later. I was a bit surprised somewhat later to learn that this gun was completely assembled using only 'staked pins' and ONE single nut and bolt! My CZ52 also exhibited quite a bit of slop in the slide-release (take-down latch), so I had my gun guru make a new one that fit a bit more tightly. I owned quite a bit of surplus S&B 9x19mm ammo in those cute, tight little green 5x5 boxes purchased years ago when it was still just a few pennies a shot.

A few months later I found an aftermarket CZ52 9mm 'ported sports barrel and spring' for sale and bought it as well. Put both the "sports" and Tokarev barrels through their paces a bit and then discovered '9x23WIN' ammo! Was impressed by its stats and started thinking about perhaps converting my new 'sports barrel' to 9x23WIN! Went back and forth on this for a while to be honest however, but finally decided to go ahead with the 'WIN' conversion. Figured out it was a relatively easy job for any Gun Smith with a proper 9mm 'case reamer' to ream the existing '9x19 case' chamber to '9x23WIN case' size.

Quite simple to do by reaming the barrel an additional 4mm (0.164") for WIN-case length and massaging the barrel entry ramp a bit to smooth out the WIN bullet's somewhat steeper magazine exit radius. Must say I'm pretty pleased with the feed and firing of the two 9x23WIN ammo types I've tried so far in my converted CZ52's 'sport-barrel'! ;)


« Last Edit: July 30, 2023, 06:09:39 PM by 1MALIG »

Offline HollowDawg

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2023, 08:41:32 AM »
Interesting idea. Did you up the recoil spring weight? Would think Win 9x23 would have quite a bit more recoil than 9x19?

Offline 1MALIG

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2023, 12:17:25 PM »
Interesting idea. Did you up the recoil spring weight? Would think Win 9x23 would have quite a bit more recoil than 9x19?
Actually use the same spring (a bit stiffer than 'stock') that came with the new, longer 'sport barrel'. The roller block primarily controls rear-ward 'lock-up' motion of the slide, as I understand it. Have shot about 40-50 rounds down range and is quite manageable and accurate, ...no problems thus far!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 01:40:45 PM by 1MALIG »

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2023, 09:38:20 AM »
Thoughts....
- Your title says "9x23 Win" but in the body you refer to plain "9x23". There is a HUGE difference. 9x23 (at least to me) infers 9x23 Largo, which is an identically sized low pressure round.

- With 9x23 Win it's not the barrel that's the problem, it's the chamber. 9x23 Win can go up to 50,000 psi, rifle pressures. Can your old chamber hold that much pressure ? In a 1911 it's not an issue because the barrel blanks are all sized for the 45ACP, and so they are fairly meaty. When you drill a barrel blank sized for 45 out to 9mm you'll get a lot of extra steel around the chamber for "free". That won't be happening in your situation.


Not saying you are wrong, it won't work or that I'm right. Just some points you might want to mull over.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 04:18:46 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2023, 07:06:32 PM »
I did a quick lookup of these rounds and found pressures for the modern high performance 9X23 Winchester as high as 55,000 while pressures for the 9x23 Largo come in at 26,000. All the info I find is that the 9x23 Winchester is not safe to be fired in those old barrels as the pressures are just too high. While you gun may be functioning fine and you may be happy with it's accuracy it also appears that it may be unsafe as well.
Enjoy it at your own risk and hopefully no one else's.

Offline HollowDawg

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2023, 07:38:54 AM »
Are 9x23 Largo and 9x23 Win cases dimensionally similar? I have an old Astra 400 in 9x23 Largo with a few rounds of 9x23 Largo hoarded. Largo has become difficult to find. Can probably get 9x23 Win brass and load my own Largo for the future if the cases are the same? Anyone done such or know right off hand?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2023, 08:31:53 AM »
Are 9x23 Largo and 9x23Win cases dimensionally similar?

That is my understanding. Hornady sells "9x23" dies without specifying anything else. Also, I once bought '9x23' brass off another forum. It measured up correctly, but did not have the extremely thick case head of 9x23Win. I sent it back.

Externally they are also very, very similar to 38Super. I think you might have better luck re-shaping 38Super than finding Largo brass... unless someone like StarLine had it. Both are 0.700" long, but the rim dia on 38Super is somewhat larger. Remember 38Super originally headspaced on the rim.


Can probably get 9x23Win brass and load my own Largo for the future if the cases are the same? Anyone done such or know right off hand?
Yes, you can always "under load" any cartridge. Other that using lead bullets, the only issue I see is that the case head on 9x23Win is so tremendously thick that the internal case volume is going to be much lower. That's going to raise your chamber pressure with the same amount of powder. So you'd need to start very low and use a chrono.

Here's a neat photo...



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Offline HollowDawg

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2023, 12:53:34 PM »
Thx for the great info Wobbly ! I had no real expectations for finding Largo brass and was thinking 9x23 Win as a sub but your idea for using 38 super is even better!!

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2023, 04:18:23 PM »
Thx for the great info Wobbly ! I had no real expectations for finding Largo brass and was thinking 9x23 Win as a sub but your idea for using 38 super is even better!!

Since standard 38Super has the over-size rim, look for the more modern TJ or Comp brass in which they reduced rim dia to promote better feeding in race guns.

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Offline 1MALIG

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2023, 08:42:08 PM »
Have to say that I too really appreciated Wobbly's very informative replies, especially the one with the '9mm shell casing' photos, ...proved my point! I will add that I had already eliminated many of those shown for lack of either performance level desired or case strength. Pretty plain to see that the only one in that photo that is even close is the Lapua 38 Super! Should add that I had never really considered the Largo specifically because of lack of availability and case strength... in fact, 'warned off' about this earlier by other's posts outside of this forum!

I should also mention that I did NOT! use just any old serialized CZ52 '9mm barrel/roller block' from long ago ('54-'77) for this project. Instead, lucked out finding and using a CZ52-compat '9mm barrel/roller block' of recent US manufacture, not exactly what was alluded to here. I should add that, I too value my body and limbs considerably more than that!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 01:44:55 PM by 1MALIG »

Offline HollowDawg

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2023, 10:30:15 AM »
Again Wobbly MANY thx for the great info!!

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2023, 04:56:11 PM »
I should mention that I did NOT! use an old serialized CZ52 '9mm barrel/roller block' from long ago ('54-'77) for this project. Instead I used a  CZ52-compat '9mm barrel/roller block' of recent US manufacture and is both longer and ported! Not exactly what was alluded to here and should add that I value my body and limbs considerably more than that!
So then you're saying the barrel you used was manufactured and approved for the cartridge you modified it for? I'd actually be curious to know where you were able to find a 9mm barrel for a 52 period. Last time I looked they had all dried up.
Post some pics I'd like to see the porting.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 06:07:41 PM by SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM »

Offline 1MALIG

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2023, 02:32:51 AM »
Wish I would've kept more details of my CZ52 compatible "9mm ported sport barrel" acquisition so I could give a bit more info than I can remember. Anyways, I'm off anything Microsoft for a long time and on a Mac now and can't figure out exactly how to post pics of different dimensions/sizes here...
 
Uh, thanks for the IMGUR tip, BTW... very handy!  ;)

« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 01:46:41 PM by 1MALIG »

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm Luger to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2023, 06:39:56 AM »
On a Mac, don't know exactly how to post a pic of different sizes here... off anything Microsoft for long time.


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Offline 1MALIG

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Re: Converting CZ52 from 9x19mm to 9x23 Win...
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2023, 05:09:13 PM »
While rummaging through my numerous photo files, I ran across some more CZ52 '9mmWIN mod' photos I took for reference during this project. Thought I'd share with brief comments that may answer your questions without having to ask. Actually finished this project thus far several years ago now, so here goes...


1. Luger ammo in CZ52 mag -


2. WIN ammo in CZ52 mag -


3. Luger ammo in empty slide firing/eject position -


4. WIN ammo in empty slide firing/eject position -


5. Luger ammo in unmodified roller-block chamber -


6. WIN ammo in unmodified roller-block chamber -
 (shell casing chamber lengthened by 0.164" later)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 01:48:41 PM by 1MALIG »