Strange failure

[1911P07]

So I have a relatively new Cz p-07. I have only put a couple hundred rounds through it but have, u fortunately, already experienced 2 failures of the failure to go into battery type. The reason I’m posting is because the failures seem strange to me. The round is in the chamber but the slide fails to go into battery because it seems like the round snuck in front of the extractor and the slide doesn’t have enough umph to push around it. Is this the result of limp wristing? Magazine issue? (They seem fine other than one of them having a rattle when at max capacity due to a loose round) any ideas?

[AZ_CZ]

What ammo, brand and grain, are you using? Have you tried different ammo? Are you sure the ammo is fully seated in the chamber? Some ammo can have out of spec rounds that will not fully seat. Definitely a different issue.

[1911P07]

The issue happened with both armscor and pmc bronze fmj 115 grain. Come to think of it, I am likely mistaken. I was able to clear the “trouble” round by racking the slide so the extractor must have been grabbing it (my apologies). After an attempted shot, I notice the slide is not completely into battery and there is a small gap remaining where I can see the brass of the round sitting in the chamber. A stout rap on the back of the slide does not force it into battery so I drop the magazine, clear the live round by racking the slide, re insert magazine, finish firing the rest of the 15 round magazine, pick the live round up off the ground, clean it off, reinsert into magazine, it loads and fires without a hitch! So I think I was wrong initially about the extractor blocking closure but I am still concerned about these failures and what they may indicate!

[1911P07]

Maybe I am not staying on top of cleaning as well as I should be though, like I said, it was brand new a week ago and has maybe a couple/few hundred Rounds through it. I have field stripped and deep cleaned it once. It is well lubed. I just don’t like to see any failures and want to be sure of how to address them…

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

You may have limp wristed the gun and you may have experienced a couple out of spec rounds of ammo. As to being able to see the brass case in the chamber it is completely normal to be able to see some of the case from the right side of the slide/barrel on the P-07.
Clean it, lube it and try another brand of ammo and see how it does.

[1911P07]

You bring up an interesting point. Maybe it was fine and I thought it was out of battery (not used to being able to see into the breach while in battery) maybe it was a light strike? I never checked the primer to see if there were any markings. I will clean and lube and get at it again! I will say this though, I had the exact same “click, no bang” experience (with pmc brass fmj) on my very first magazine with the gun fresh from the box (had not done anything to it other than remove it from the box, load it and shoot! Seemed like it had grease on it so figured I was good to go).

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

CZ's can tend to be very "gooped up" out of the box and really should be cleaned of the shipping lube before use. 

[1911P07]

I have since cleaned the grease off , cleaned and lubed the firearm (ballistol and hoppes gun oil). Mine came with a black barrel, a red plastic patch loop and what seems to be black nylon/ metal bore brush. I do not currently have a 9mm jag or any other bore cleaning instruments that did not come with the gun. Should I invest in a copper/brass bore brush? I plan on getting a jag for it but I was curious if I should avoid a brass bore brush and only use the black one it came with to try and avoid any metallic fouling in the bore from a different brush?

[briang2ad]

First if the cartridge's rim is NOT BEHIND the extractor, I would not tap the slide forward.  This will eventually ruin the extractor.

Second thing is to PULL the extractor and clean out the channel and under the extractor.  If you somehow don't do this, at least use some brake cleaner and clean it out the best you can. 

Then go shoot and see. 

[Ron IL]

That grease is more of a preservative for them for shipping overseas and sitting in a warehouse for a couple years.  I always clean them really good before the first time out and then just use oil for lube.  When they get good and broke in I can use a very light coat of gun grease if I want to.  For cleaning I have a brass bore brush is needed but use old used brass brushes as a jag for cleaning.  I use a 22 brush for cleaning my 9's and a 9 brush for cleaning my 45's.  I just put the cleaning patch over the undersized brush and push through the bore with solvent on it and a clean one the same way.  And use a brass brush if there is stubborn crud in it.  I shoot cast TEK coated bullets.  Grease in a new tight gun can slow down the slide pretty bad and especially on a cold day.

[Claymore504]

The P07 tends to run without being perfectly clean from what I have seen. You are using two brands of ammo so that is a good factor. Next time it does it maybe take a couple pictures if what you see and post so that we can better understand what is actually happening. Seems you are not very sure and that is a little confusing. If your P07 is really having this much trouble running, a trip back to CZ would be the best bet.

[M1A4ME]

I've used brass brushes for decades.  No issues.

I only recently started using a jag and only on the pistols.  Seems to do okay.  You can get plastic jags on line or at guns/sports stores that sell cleaning equipment.

Two hundred rounds is basically brand new.  Should not be a recoil spring issue.  Should not be a hammer spring issue (failure to fire in SA or DA).

Often, here, people will say it takes around 500 rounds to break in some CZs.  I've not had that issue but I understand it can happen.

Where the rounds hard to remove from the barrel?  If so it could mean those two rounds were a bit "long" and the bullet made contact with the barrel metal near the start of the rifling and therefore didn't fully chamber.  If that happened it could be that the hammer just didn't hit the primer hard enough to set it off.  Some CZ pistols have a geometry/fit of the parts that means the hammer just can't hit that firing pin very hard unless the slide is completely forward.

Could be an issue, too, where the brass and chamber rubbed/dragged enough to keep it from completely chambering the round.  Sometimes it doesn't take much, between lubrication, how clean the gun is, parts of the pistol still not broken in well (contact surfaces worn smooth together through dry firing, firing or polishing of the parts contact surfaces.

Wobbly has a bunch of good diagrams showing some of the problems with cartridges/bullets that can cause a pistol to fail to fully chamber a round.

One other thing is your magazines.  Is this happening with both magazines (I know, only twice in 200 rounds) but it's something you need to be aware of is that magazines can be an issue.  A lot of people ID/number their magazines so if they have repeating issues they can determine if it happens with all of them or only one of them.  If it only happens with one magazine that one needs to be pulled from use and replaced.  Sometimes you can "fix" that problem magazine with a good cleaning, a new spring, replacing the follower.  Sometimes it's something about the feed lips at the top and you have to make a choice of discarding that magazine or trying to modify it to make it work.

Good luck with it.

The question about how much of the brass is normal to see is in this picture.  My P07 .40.  If you look you can barely see a thin slice of the shiny brass rim between the back of the barrel and the slide.  More than that and the slide is not fully forward.

[1911P07]

The gun is running great other than those two malfunctions. My first thought was that maybe the magazine that has a rattle (loose cartridge about halfway down) when fully loaded was the culprit though after some light research, I discovered this is a relatively common issue with double stack magazines and rarely (if ever) affects the function of the firearm. Could a poorly seated round (in the magazine) cause this issue? I could see if maybe it was seated too far forward in the mag once some rounds were discharged and it came back under tension that could very likely cause the issue I’m having. My confusion comes from the fact that the live round ejects when racking the slide and this would not happen if it was in front of the ejector…correct? After seeing that picture (thank you!) I do believe that my slide isn’t fully forward when this happens.
It was recommended I remove and clean the external extractor. I am aware of how to do this but I heard that the extractor is staked and could need restaking?? I don’t know what this means or how to go about doing it. I am aware of the pin that holds it in and how to remove it but is it being staked something else? This brings me to another curious thing I noticed after taking down the slide. On the internal side of the slide, there are ding marks around where the extractor pin goes almost like some banged it up trying to get a pin in/out (trying to post pic, guess I need to use a website link?)
One more thing I wanted to address. I read comments about CZ sending pictures of the factory test grouping made with a newly purchased firearm. I did not receive one of these. Is this an old practice or is there something awry with my firearm purchase? I ordered it brand new from a local FFL and had to wait nearly a week for it to even arrive (two day shipping turned into 6!!).

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I would not remove the extractor on a new gun as it is unlikely that there is any crud accumulated in there yet. TWO malfunctions like you describe are really not a reason to start taking things apart.
Yes it's normal for some mags to rattle and I have many that do but function perfectly. As to the test target I have not seen one in several years. Personally I think they stopped shipping them because too many people took them as an indication of accuracy when they were really only meant as a function test.

[1911P07]

Yea well thanks for the help everyone. I give up trying to post a pic for now. I’m hoping this is all just due to a break in period and proper lube/cleaning. We shall see I guess!!