How Many Condition 1 Carry the P-01

[MMH]

I have a P-01 Omega that I condition 1 carry.  Mostly because of habit - I have carried either a 1911 or BHP for 20 years now.  Seems like most people are inclined to DA carry.  Maybe w/ more DA practice I can do so as well.

From what I understand the safety is just as good on the P-01 as traditional SAO guns.  Why do not more people carry their CZs this way?

[briang2ad]

I think it depends on your hand/finger size and length.  Its all what works for your hand.  I don't find the Omega safety easy to get to.  Might just be me.  I carry my CZs in DA. 

[M1A4ME]

All mine have thumb safeties and are carried cocked and locked.

1911's were my carry semi-auto for years.  Been through other pistols between the 1911s and the CZs but even the M&Ps and FNS pistols I bought had thumb safeties.

With CZs I either by the B models or the Omegas and then remove the decockers and install thumb safeties when I get home from the store/gun show.

[CowboyIlija97]

I carry my P01 Omega with the hammer at half cock, one in the chamber, and a full magazine.

[MMH]

All mine have thumb safeties and are carried cocked and locked.

1911's were my carry semi-auto for years.  Been through other pistols between the 1911s and the CZs but even the M&Ps and FNS pistols I bought had thumb safeties.

With CZs I either by the B models or the Omegas and then remove the decockers and install thumb safeties when I get home from the store/gun show.

That is good to hear.  I have been carrying BHPs & 1911s for years.  Don't know why but the safety on the P-01 does not feel as secure (not saying it is not).  Maybe I am used to see the safety engage in the slide.

[M1A4ME]

If you buy a B model and feel the safety is a little less "positive" than you'd like there's a company that makes replacement/stronger springs for the safety.  Not hard to put in (have to field strip, then remove the left side thumb safety, then remove the piece inside the frame that pushes against the safety and it's spring.  You put the replacement spring where that factory spring was and put it all back together and it'll be a little harder to move the safety from the position you left it in.

http://www.dsperman.com/

These don't work on the omega pistols.

[Crawl]

All mine have thumb safeties and are carried cocked and locked.

1911's were my carry semi-auto for years.  Been through other pistols between the 1911s and the CZs but even the M&Ps and FNS pistols I bought had thumb safeties.

With CZs I either by the B models or the Omegas and then remove the decockers and install thumb safeties when I get home from the store/gun show.

Any idea why the CZ defensive shooting book I bought (written by CZ shooters) describes the intended use of their guns to be carried at half cock so the first round is DA?

There's no explanation that I've seen thus far.

[RSR]

Any idea why the CZ defensive shooting book I bought (written by CZ shooters) describes the intended use of their guns to be carried at half cock so the first round is DA?

There's no explanation that I've seen thus far.

Most Euro guns like CZ are designed for LE (law enforcement) needs as paramount with military second.   The safety PLUS DA equals double plus safe against negligent discharge in the eyes of (acquisition) bureaucrats and lawyers...

[M1A4ME]

It's got a thumb safety.  It's got a firing pin block safety.  Who really believes it needs "more" safety by carrying it at half cock?

Add to that the chance of an accidental/negligent firing while trying to block the hammer while pulling the trigger (doing something both the other safeties are there to stop) seems kind of crazy to me.

Most places I've worked will fire you if you get caught trying to get around a safety device to run a machine in a way it's not made to run.  You know, like putting a brick/block on a foot pedal or hand lever so you can stick your fingers/hand somewhere it shouldn't be when operating the machine.

[RSR]

It's got a thumb safety.  It's got a firing pin block safety.  Who really believes it needs "more" safety by carrying it at half cock?

Add to that the chance of an accidental/negligent firing while trying to block the hammer while pulling the trigger (doing something both the other safeties are there to stop) seems kind of crazy to me.

Most places I've worked will fire you if you get caught trying to get around a safety device to run a machine in a way it's not made to run.  You know, like putting a brick/block on a foot pedal or hand lever so you can stick your fingers/hand somewhere it shouldn't be when operating the machine.

The same reason why so many LE here in the states insist upon DAO guns instead of DA/SA, as well as the reason NY State Glocks had trigger pull weights of 8-12 lbs (vs standard 5 lbs) depending upon spring configuration and variance in testing...

Vickers covers it: https://www.vickerstactical.com/trigger-pull-weight.html

Another disturbing trend is for Law Enforcement agencies to put very heavy triggers on their issue service pistols for liability reasons. The most famous example is the Glock New York trigger that weighs approx 8 lbs, and even worse is the New York plus that has a trigger pull weight of 12 lbs. Remember if your pistol weighs 2 lbs loaded, and you have an 8 pound trigger pull, it will take 4 times the loaded weight of the the handgun to make it fire. This means that for the typical shooter it is virtually impossible to shoot the weapon accurately under stress. This leads to misses and an unintentional spray and pray approach when in a gunfight. The danger to innocent bystanders increases dramatically, and the very thing that was meant to make the pistol safer ( heavy trigger pull ) actually increases the danger to the public that LE officers are sworn to protect. This sad state of affairs started as a byproduct of LE agencies that issued revolvers and relied on the long heavy double action trigger pull as a safety device. This lead to the unsafe habit of allowing officers to have their finger on the trigger when they should not. Enter a stock Glock 17 with a 5 lb trigger and no manual safeties of any kind and you have a recipe for disaster. A much better approach is to train, and if need be re-train, officers to keep their finger off the trigger at all times except when presenting the weapon toward the target. Always keep in mind that a mechanical device is a poor substitute for safe gun handling.

[Crawl]

I've been training for the past few years with another former Unit guy, not Larry obviously. What LAV is saying here is the same thing they teach at Unit OTC. You may sweep the safety and place your trigger finger when your pistol is pointed at a target you intend to engage.

Training this way simplifies and makes obvious your decision making for SO MANY things. It takes more time to mentally process that you intend to shoot than it takes to sweep and place. After that, make the first shot count. That's how you survive.

[RSR]

I've been training for the past few years with another former Unit guy, not Larry obviously. What LAV is saying here is the same thing they teach at Unit OTC. You may sweep the safety and place your trigger finger when your pistol is pointed at a target you intend to engage.

Training this way simplifies and makes obvious your decision making for SO MANY things. It takes more time to mentally process that you intend to shoot than it takes to sweep and place. After that, make the first shot count. That's how you survive.

Yes, but LE decisions on triggers appear to be made for lowest common denominator as well as to account for varying levels of training -- many officers only shoot their weapons when they "qualify" once to a couple times per year and not even all of them take advantage of practice sessions and department issued ammo for pre-qualification practice...  Most weapon handling is holstering and unholstering their weapon every day, not violent encounters.  And only around 1/4 of law enforcement officers have ever fired their weapon on duty, with the number annually a fraction of that.

LE fingers tend to go to triggers immediately when their pistols leave the holsters (in part but not exclusively for patrol LE at least, due to the nature of their jobs where they are responding to threats) -- and the only way to completely remove this mis-training and change the paradigm is to start in the academy and wait a couple decades for all of those with previous training to retire or otherwise leave the force.

For SOFD-D and other military special operations units -- one negligent discharge is often sufficient to remove you from that team and send you to regular units, so the stakes and training regarding proper and proficient trigger control to prevent such are a central, if not the paramount, consideration in their training...  And you also see that in the way they approach their civilian firearms instruction as well -- their prioritization proper trigger control and use of any manual safeties when/if applicable.

[Crawl]

Yeah, at CAG, shooting a hostage one time is enough to get you fired. A hostage target. A piece of paper. There's zero reason why a small block of instruction can't include target descrimination and the proper sequence for safely employing force and/or lethal force. My guy offers free classes...free...to all local law enforcement.

No one ever shows up. There has to be a perception that expectations are too low before anyone will even consider pursuing improvements.

I go back to the purpose of this thread...it's not only reasonable but preferable to carry in such condition that the first trigger pull is a single action trigger pull.

[crc4]

For my purposes, I see no reason to carry C&L with any DA/SA pistol. That people do it is fine for them, but I fail to see the purpose. I see it as an out-of-date holdover when it was considered proper to do so as DA pistols were scarce in the US, but with today's pistols for defensive carry, it's a relic.

Of course, anytime now I'll expect the crowds to be surging towards my castle with pitchforks and torches for spouting heresy.

[RSR]

Yeah, at CAG, shooting a hostage one time is enough to get you fired. A hostage target. A piece of paper. There's zero reason why a small block of instruction can't include target descrimination and the proper sequence for safely employing force and/or lethal force. My guy offers free classes...free...to all local law enforcement.

No one ever shows up. There has to be a perception that expectations are too low before anyone will even consider pursuing improvements.

I go back to the purpose of this thread...it's not only reasonable but preferable to carry in such condition that the first trigger pull is a single action trigger pull.

I think you hit the nail on the head -- there has to be the standard of and culture requiring superior proficiency and precision, and there simply isn't...  Firearms are treated by LE as "big hammer" instead of "threading the needle", perhaps in part due to the way unions defend use-of-force incidents -- if lethal force is justified, any repercussions including from sub-par LE performance (such as shooting bystanders/violating basic rule of firearm safety re: what's beyond target) are the fault of the alleged bad guy(s) who created the incident allegedly necessitating, not LE... 

To Condition 1:
If you have a holster that fully covers the safety (to prevent accidental deactivation) and prevents anything from getting between the hammer and firing pin (whether over-garment, flap, etc.) such as branches, leaves, dirt, etc., then I see no issue w/ Condition 1 carry.  Military-issued holsters for WW1 and WW2 are a case-in-point of what I'm suggesting may, if not should, be required for general Condition 1 carry.

Personally, and for consistency across firearms, I prefer Condition 2 carry; however, I do also prefer striker-fired guns w/ safeties around the farm/ranch where need is varmints and not bad guys...  I'm most often carrying a sidearm around the farm/ranch, while doing pretty much everything including clearing/hauling brush where stuff has worked itself into the holster if not trigger guard and leaving the hammer cocked would most definitely have all sorts of crud working into the hammer notch on the frame...  Granted, this is part of the reason I've largely transitioned to chest rig carry (center of chest) versus belt carry for around the farm/ranch, but I still prefer Condition 2 to Condition 1 in the chest position as well.

Basically, most folks I know here in Central TX that carry Condition 1 run 1911s and have for decades, have white collar jobs working behind a desk, live in urban or suburbia environs (meaning highly structured environments), and wear suits or blazers on the daily.  That works for them on their day-to-day -- me, not so much.

Point being, conditions in which one might be able to responsibly carry a firearm in Condition 1 are largely personal lifestyle and holster-dependent.   And granted, one's definition of "responsible" varies, but I'd define it primarily based upon 1) worst case likelihood of severely injure yourself or others in the manner in which you carry AND 2) protects/maintains your firearm so that it's in a condition where it is certain to go bang whenever you need it to.