What are most likely explanations for primer blowout in 9mm reloads

[Clint007]

Not me, but a friend uses remanufactured ammo he buys at gun shows, and he's had more than a few primers pop out during matches and just last night it jammed up his gun. He shoots a CZ SP01 Shadow.
I shoot the same gun and only shoot my own ammo and have never had this happen to me insofar as I can tell. His gun was a bit dirty and dry, figured that makes any problem worse.

But what's the main cause for this phenomenon in general? I assume it's an ammo thing. loose primer pocket from too many reloads, over swaging, ? He tells me the seller uses Federal SPP...

C

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I cannot attest to what may be going on with your friends gun but I can tell you for a fact that I've reloaded casings for 9MM, .45 ACP, .38 SPL and .357 MAG  enough times that the cases would no longer hold a new primer tightly enough to be considered a safe round. You learn how a primer feels when it seats well and how one feels with little or no resistance and at that point the casing is no longer useable.

[Fuzzy Sights]

Sadly a more dangerous is that the pressure is far too high.  Result can also be a ruptured case and or damage to the firearm and shooter.  Have seen more Glocks and S&W polymer frames destroyed by poorly reloaded ammo including remanufactured ammo. Was at my home range this past weekend and a shooter on the line had some locally remanufactured ammo where the OAL was too long and her gun (glock) would lock up just slightly out of battery.  Had to help her twice to get it cleared.  In the end the risk and frustration is not worth saving less than two bucks a box.  Had the rounds gone in just slightly further and it fired out of battery the gun and shooter would both have been damaged.

JW

[Wobbly]

Not me, but a friend uses remanufactured ammo he buys at gun shows, and he's had more than a few primers pop out during matches and just last night it jammed up his gun. He shoots a CZ SP01 Shadow.

But what's the main cause for this phenomenon in general? I assume it's an ammo thing. A loose primer pocket from too many reloads, over swaging, ? He tells me the seller uses Federal SPP...

SVPP is correct. You can load cases so many times that the primer pockets get loose. A lot of these remanufacturers are taking in cases from hundreds of sources and it's impossible to inspect each one. This enables the unscrupulous to send in their worn out brass.

When you load your own you know it instantly due to the lower force required to seat the primer. An automated machine is not going to spot that. And too, Federal primers don't fit that tightly.

The root idea in competition is to control all the Quality variables you can. You buy a quality gun, shoot quality ammo, draw from a quality holster, and then practice, practice, practice. You can't off-load your ammunition Quality Control responsibilities to someone else, and then expect to do well. I think it's time for your pal to take up reloading for himself.

[lewmed]

 I agree with Wobbly Clint007's friend needs to find a mentor and learn to reload.

[Wobbly]

Buying ammo at gun shows for backyard plinking is one thing. Buying ammo at gun shows for competition is at the extreme other end of the spectrum.

I used to stay after action pistol meets and pick up every single piece of brass. Then in subsequent meets I started having failures to load because the case heads on some of my handloaded ammo were too large. Come to discover that it was the brass I had picked up that had been shot in Open Class. There was a reason the Open Class guys didn't pick up their brass! It had been blown out-of-spec for any meaningful re-use... except recycling. I learned from my failures in competition that I had to be a LOT more careful.



So your friend finds himself at the exact same crossroads: Do some substantial work on Quality Assurance, or continue to finish last. I assure you, none of the people on the podium are buying their ammo at Goodwill. 

[Clint007]

Thank you for the info and I’ll share this with my friend.

I, too, have stopped collecting mystery brass from ranges. I use inspected pin-cleaned brass for sanctioned matches and check the primer pocket with my go no-go tool. I actually load these rounds on my 550, for more quality control, and use a shock-bottle setup with all match ammo so I case gauge and OAL check all those rounds at the end. I’ve done this after missing a Master bump at a match because of an ammo problem…one slightly out of spec piece of brass….

For practice and plinking I’m much more casual. But the sensors and check systems in the Mark 7 Evo I have, now that it’s finely tuned, are awesome.  But loose primer pockets is one thing that system cannot accurately detect, as you said, Wobbly.

C

[tdogg]

I've never seen a pistol cartridge loose a primer.  I've done it a number of times shooting magnum rifle loads (overpressure) during load development.  I also had a factory new rifle shooting factory Hornady ammo shoot out the primers on the first load.  There was an issue with both the rifle and the ammo that paired together caused the blow out.

They sell a primer pocket Go/NoGo gauges.  I use them for rifle brass mostly that does get hammered with magnum loads.  If there is another case that has the primer fall out and you are able to find the case, you can check the pocket to confirm if the pocket is blown out.  I don't know how else a primer would fall out of the pocket.

Since your friend isn't reloading and is purchasing reman ammo, there isn't much he can do to ensure his safety.  He can do some simple ammo checks to confirm the ammo will fit in his barrel by performing the plunk test.  This will confirm that the ammo isn't too long and will also identify if the case is out of spec.  Obviously this gets a little laborious thus using a Hundo 100rd case gage speeds up the process.  You have to confirm that the Hundo is tighter than the barrel (it is for all my CZ's).  The Hundo doesn't check OAL just that the case has been resized to spec.  He could also chrono the ammo to get an idea of the pressure and variability of the ammo (shoot 10-20 through the chrono to see velocity spread).  Most competitions will allow a chrono precheck before the match or he could ask a friend with a chrono to help out.

I'm wondering if your friend notices anything different with the cartridges that have the issue?  Is there a louder report, heavier felt recoil, accuracy issue, etc...?  It may indicate an issue with the reman ammo having over pressure charges or increased reman process variability.

Ultimately if your friend is remotely serious in competition, he should be reloading to save some money, improve his scores/accuracy, and ultimately ensure his safety.

Cheers,
Toby

[tdogg]

Thank you for the info and I’ll share this with my friend.

I, too, have stopped collecting mystery brass from ranges. I use inspected pin-cleaned brass for sanctioned matches and check the primer pocket with my go no-go tool. I actually load these rounds on my 550, for more quality control, and use a shock-bottle setup with all match ammo so I case gauge and OAL check all those rounds at the end. I’ve done this after missing a Master bump at a match because of an ammo problem…one slightly out of spec piece of brass….

For practice and plinking I’m much more casual. But the sensors and check systems in the Mark 7 Evo I have, now that it’s finely tuned, are awesome.  But loose primer pockets is one thing that system cannot accurately detect, as you said, Wobbly.

C

You have all the tools to help your friend.  Show him the ropes!

I have a rollsizer that I process all my range pickup brass through.  I haven't had an issue running roll sized major brass since I started roll sizing.  I'm not loading major though and If I ever did start loading major, I'd have to evaluate if I wanted to reload range brass.  I'd probably use the shell shock cases and try to pick them up at matches with a magnet.

Cheers,
Toby

[newageroman]

That's a funny story. I still can't believe people(around here, not your friend specifically) will buy random mismatched rounds in a ziplock bag at a pawn shop or wherever. Expecting reman ammo to run at a match is also pretty funny but hey the race life is fun so whatever gets you there ... safely.
One other thing to check is stepped cases that could maker higher pressure. Once I started finding those in my random range brass I stopped picking up random range brass and only run my cultured pearls.
If you have a hand priming unit, let him feel the difference in priming a new case and a well used case and see if that opens his eyes to what appears to be going on.
I just made a batch of 30-06 rounds that I labeled as "single loads/last loads" because of the primer pockets thing.
The "Free Open Brass" is a thing and there is a reason it is a thing.
This coming season I'm looking to run mainly Limited Optics (minor) so OpenMajor with shock cases its not a priority. I have run them at Major as new brass but not reloaded brass. The magnet thing is a bit overrated unless you have a very large electro magnet and the cases do blend with gravel horribly (curbing some of my hipster brass magnet appeal at the match)

[Wobbly]

I've never seen a pistol cartridge loose a primer.  I've done it a number of times shooting magnum rifle loads (overpressure) during load development. 

I experienced some enlarged primer pockets at my first several matches... But here again I think it is more related to super high chamber pressures than wear. As soon as I stopped picking up brass at my gun club the problem miraculously went away.

For my home range, I only load up to about PF135/137 (1100 fps w/ 124gr). I must have been shooting the same 800 pieces of brass for at least 7 years now with no primer pocket degradation.

[Dan_69GTX]

Clint, thanks for starting this thread. And a public shout out to you for giving me advice on the Dillon RL 1100 - I love it!  Should have thanked you publicly months ago. 

I pick up brass after shooting matches. I have found several pieces of brass without primers in them. Typically the brass itself typically looks fine, no obvious over pressure signs. The primer pockets are loose with a go/nogo gauge.

I hand sort all my brass to remove anything showing high-pressure, damaged cases, etc. Typically these are used for practice/fun. I try to keep any new brass separate, and use it only at my range,  or at a competition. Every round that is used for competition gets put in the Hundo gauge. So far, knock on wood, have not had any issues with Ammo in competition.

I typically save up my range brass and do large batches of sorting, such as today, sitting in my chair, recovering from knee surgery

[Wobbly]

Ultimately if your friend is remotely serious in competition, he should be reloading to save some money, improve his scores/accuracy, and ultimately ensure his safety.

And the way to introduce him is 1) Have him over for a loading session. Let him compete with those rounds. Then see if his scores improve.

Then when they do (and they will) 2) make him an offer... If he will abide by your reloading room rules and safety regs... then he can use your equipment if he brings his own components.

Of course we all know he'll be hooked and probably wanting to buy his own equipment within a very few months. But the advantage is that there won't be that tremendous "initiation fee" of components AND equipment all piled together. And he would have had the important mentor time under your tutelage.

[Clint007]

Clint, thanks for starting this thread. And a public shout out to you for giving me advice on the Dillon RL 1100 - I love it!  Should have thanked you publicly months ago. 

I pick up brass after shooting matches. I have found several pieces of brass without primers in them. Typically the brass itself typically looks fine, no obvious over pressure signs. The primer pockets are loose with a go/nogo gauge.

I hand sort all my brass to remove anything showing high-pressure, damaged cases, etc. Typically these are used for practice/fun. I try to keep any new brass separate, and use it only at my range,  or at a competition. Every round that is used for competition gets put in the Hundo gauge. So far, knock on wood, have not had any issues with Ammo in competition.

I typically save up my range brass and do large batches of sorting, such as today, sitting in my chair, recovering from knee surgery

Glad it has worked out for you.

I belong to an indoor  range too, in addition to the outdoor club with idpa and uspsa matches. The indoor range is 99% commercial ammo and I used to scoop that up by the bucket. No worries about that being used in open guns… not many guys come to an indoor range to shoot their open gun and if they do, it’s pretty obvious lol.

Now I have so much I only pick up other folks brass to be tidy at matches.

Armanov sells this kit with a 100 round case gauge, and a tray and insert for quickly filling the case and measuring for out of spec OALs. And marking the cases quickly.   Really like this if you reload in large quantities.

https://www.armanov.com/shop/ammo-checker-100-rnd-3-in-1-bundle-1483#attr=1040

C