Author Topic: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to  (Read 9774 times)

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Offline M1A4ME

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I've been an Alliant (mostly) pistol powder fan for decades.

 I know some members here swear by Vihtavuori powders and I've seen this phrase several times.  "It may cost more but it's worth it."  Well, take a look at powder prices, Alliant, Winchester, IMR, etc. and if seems their prices are right there with, or even above the listed prices for Vihtavuori powders. 

I'm on the verge of ordering a couple jugs to try out some loads.  Not sure what the availability is like but I know Alliant is about shut down for all the powder availability they've had the last couple of years.

And, I just ran across (more truthfully - just noticed) Wobbly has a section on in the stickies of the reloading forum listing powders and load work done by members and reported here.  I'm going to spend some time reading and then find a place that has a couple different powder types in stock and order some.

Just in case some of us haven't noticed powder prices make many of those "too expensive" Vihtavuori powders are better priced vs. our old favorites.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2024, 08:06:26 AM »
• For your low PF competition rounds, N320 is widely used. Its fastest loading will get you to about PF135 as measured by a chrono. For faster defensive rounds use N330 or N340.

• The N300 series powders are "single-base", which means they run cooler, much cleaner and don't have the "snap" that nitroglycerin adds to most common powders. The granule form is what can only be called a "mini-stick", which might lead you to believe it doesn't meter well, but it meters really, really well.

I love everything about the stuff. You will too.
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Offline jwc007

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2024, 09:05:31 AM »
Big fan of N320 and N330 here!  :)

Also, for Rifle Powders, I've used N133 in .223/5.56 and N140 in the .308/7.62 with great results.  :)
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For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline Joe L

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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2024, 04:47:28 PM »
Reloading would be it! 

But I'll probably expire first.  I'm having plenty of fun now just shooting...pistols and photos/videos. 

But I'll continue just enjoying reading about you guys reloading your own ammo. 

Joe L
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2024, 08:13:36 PM »
Local shop a few miles up the road has N310 and N340 in stock.  I might get a lb. of each to try out.  They're OOS on the N320 and N330 though.

The N340 looks good for the .40 S&W and not bad for the 9MM.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2024, 06:23:39 AM »
• The N300 series has a 'flash suppressant', which makes N340 perfect for SD loads in several calibers, including 9x19 Luger and 40S&W. This would be applications where you want to get the bullet velocity up in the high 1100's or low 1200's. N340 is also very good in 10mmAuto.

N310 is tops in blow-back pistols like 32ACP. It is also very, very good in older low pressure hand guns like 45ACP and 38Spcl.



32ACP at 30 feet (measured). 71gr T&B coated bullets. Model 81 Beretta, supported.
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Offline baldrage

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2024, 03:01:59 PM »
I, too, have been eying this as a replacement for my current favorite, Alliant Sport Pistol.

Free Hazmat and shipping at Graf's today:
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/18885

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2024, 07:16:05 AM »
Drove up to the store and ended up buying a 1 pound can of N350.  Sort of a last minute decision but it's for 124 grain 9MM hollow points and 180 grain .40 S&W hollow points.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2024, 07:42:32 AM »
One thing I like about the N300 Series is the numbering system as a name. You don't need to wonder, for instance, if W231 is faster or slower than WSF. The lower numbers are faster.

And since N350 is the highest number in the series, it may be too slow for general use in 9mm. Proabably good in 10mmAuto, 357Mag, 41Mag and 44Mag. But try it and see. Efficient combustion of smokeless powder (like any fuel) will leave a tan or gray case color after firing. (Reading a cartridge case is just like reading a spark plug... if you know anything about that.)

In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2024, 08:09:29 AM »
And since N350 is the highest number in the series, it may be too slow for general use in 9mm. Proabably good in 10mmAuto, 357Mag, 41Mag and 44Mag. But try it and see. Efficient combustion of smokeless powder (like any fuel) will leave a tan or gray case color after firing. (Reading a cartridge case is just like reading a spark plug... if you know anything about that.)

Wobbly--Somewhat related question:  Is the N350 powder one of those slower burning powders that may not shoot well (inconsistent muzzle velocities resulting in vertical spread at 100 yards, for example) in a 3.5" 9mm pistol but be fine in a 4.5" barrel? 

(PS-- I've read a lot of spark plugs from NA, nitrous, and supercharged drag race engines.)

Joe L
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2024, 06:17:45 AM »
After some initial reading I was looking for N330 and N340.  The store was out of N330 but had N340 and N350.  I had not looked at N350 when I did my reading up on the powders on the Vihtavuori web site. 

When I got to the store and saw both N340 and N350 I read the  label on the N350 and it stated it was a great powder for heavier defensive bullet loads in 9MM, .40 S&W, 10MM, etc.

I've been using Blue Dot for several years for my 9MM and .40 S&W hollow point loads.  115 grain PD or 115 grain from Everglades Reloading.  The similar bullets from RMR look good but I've not gotten around to trying them.  In .40 S&W I've loaded mainly the 135 grain hollow points from Nosler.  I've tried some 180 grain hollow points from Everglades with mulitple powders (Unique, BE86, AA*7, Bullseye and Blue Dot) and not matched the Winchester 180 grain hollow point loads in accuracy in the FNS or M&P pistols.  No 180 grain loads I've tried (factory or reloads) shoot groups in my CZ .40's like the Blue Dot and 135 grain Noslers.

I'll give the N350 a try with the 180's in the M&P pistols and see how it compares to the Winchester ammo.  I'm after group size, not max. fps or low powder consumption.  If the N350 doesn't work out they had a lot of N340 on the shelf, too.

The Blue Dot is pretty slow burning.  Not bad in the 9MM pistols but it is more noticeable in the tiny Shield 9MM pistols.  The 135 grain /Blue Dot loads in the P07 are similar to shooting a 4" or shorter .357 magnum.  Lots of recoil, muzzle flash and concussion.  But it shoots like this.

thirteen shots from the P07 off hand at 12 yds.  The lower/left hole is from me trying to hit a bumble bee that was hovering around in front of the target.  Didn't even think about messing up the group.  Just wanted to repeat a couple shots I made in my "youth."



This is one of those test targets.  When I'm trying to get another brand of pistol to shoot good groups with different ammo or working up reloads for it and I get frustrated with groups that are butt ugly I pull the P07 out of the IWB holster and shoot 5 shots at the same distance.  Then I know it's not me having a bad day.  It's the new pistol and/or the ammo.  Sometimes you've just got to find the right ammo.



Ideally it would be a load that would shoot good in the CZ pistols and the M&Ps but so far only the 115 grain hollow points and Blue Dot almost meet that goal.  The Sheilds do very well with that load and the CZ 9MM guns love it as well.  The full sized M&P 9MM don't shoot that load well at all.

Sort of like Joe says, it's not easy, but it's fun.  Working up loads to try in different guns and comparing them.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2024, 08:44:14 AM »
Is the N350 powder one of those slower burning powders that may not shoot well (inconsistent muzzle velocities resulting in vertical spread at 100 yards, for example) in a 3.5" 9mm pistol but be fine in a 4.5" barrel? 

Joe L

No, sir. All of the powders in the N300 Series are really great. I've never seen anything like it. Doesn't take much to set it off, and it is 100% consumed... no trash or ash leftover. Our good friend IDescribe said that it was all a single formulation which was manufactured in different particle sizes. I haven't researched that aspect, but it would explain why N310 burns just as good as N350. At any rate, as the above amazing targets prove, it's extremely consistent in its burning.

What I'm saying, and what M1A4ME is catching onto, is that N350 is in the burn rate neighborhood with Accurate No.7 and Alliant Blue Dot... which are simply not used that much in 9mm. See THIS burn rate chart by Hodgdon.
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Offline bang bang

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2024, 02:22:34 PM »
fwiw,

some people dont like change good or bad... until.

Until something forces them to make that change.   

Ive bought my share of VV since i first learned about them years ago and yes, they were more expensive.   but guess what?  even when they are more expensive back then, i have them now. 

one of the my shooting/reloading friends doesn't like change and is a cheap.  Even though he has more money than i do, he is always trying to get my supplies at the prices i paid for them.  I have sold some to him at my cost (mind you prices from years ago too) but the only reason he will try is because he cant get anymore or i have sold at a really good price.  Even though he maybe able to buy OTS, he tries to get mine at my price.

And is say that "Pain" and life is a good teacher.   the pain can be physical or $$.   If you aren't pushed by one, the other will over time. 



YMMV




Offline firecracker6

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2024, 02:38:21 PM »
VV makes good stuff.  Their load data's really neat too.

Offline lewmed

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Re: Vihtavuori powder - take another look if you haven't, I'm about to
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2024, 12:54:11 PM »
My last 8 lb. jug of Sport Pistol is about gone so I've been thinking about switching to Vihtavuori which VV powder would make a good replacement for my non available favorite Sport Pistol ?